Could this be one of the most profound piece's of scripture ever written?

First of all id like to say that I am not a Christian but i do think that many early Christian scriptures were rewritten from earlier books and there are some incredible lessons to learned from them.

I was introduced to this piece of scripture from reading Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov, who I believe to be one of the greatest philosophers of recent times.Aïvanhov proclaimed this to be of profound importance because of its relation to the ego, both the individual ego of man and the collective ego of the mankind. Aïvanhov believed the ego of man to be the root of all evil.

But on pondering it for many years I have come to the conclusion that it may be even more profound than Aïvanhov may have realized because of its possible connection to the question of extraterrestrial beings and why they may not have made contact with us yet. It also may contain a veiled reference to the nature of the true God who may be of extraterrestrial origin also.
From my own perspective i look on this piece of scripture as the long lost and last piece of a jigsaw puzzle that when put in place,answers many of my own personal questions about the universe.

Its taken from the Gospel of Thomas which wasn't included in the Bible.Some scholars have theorized that the scriptures in the Gospel of Thomas were to arcane and deep for early Biblical scholars and this is why it was omitted.I believe they were left out because some of his teachings may have been to close to the truth.

Theres a few slightly different versions but il quote the one from Aïvanhov's writings.It is as follows.....

"When you know yourselves,then you shall be known.Then you shall know that you are the sons of the living God.
But if you do not know yourselves,then you are alone and dwell in poverty."

enjoy.

cool reference. i'm not a christian either,thats a roman made lie. i will give you a quote from the gospel of thomas that is probably why the romans didn't include it in their bible. it gives the power of god to the individual,not the church,quoted fron jesus himself!

gospel of thomas-3
jesus said,"if(20)those who lead you say to you,'see the kingdom is in the sky,'then the birds in the sky will proceed you. if they say to you,'it is in the sea',then the fish will proceed you. (25) rather,the kingdom is inside of you,and it is outside of you. when you come to know yourselves,then you will become known,(33)and you will realize that it is who you are. the sons of the living father.
but if you will not know yourselves,you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

peace

reply to post by auraelium


Belief in oneself is paramount to happiness, After-all if your incapable of believing in yourself how can you believe in god?

reply to post by auraelium


Good to be reminded about this great work that is probably uncorrupted by political and opportunistic editing. This quote gets me thinking.

Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

Kind of sounds like what ATS members try to do, at least the first part. Actually if we take away grandiose interpretations of "reign" and substitute "understand", then it is perfectly normal human behaviour (at least those of inquiring mind that are always seeking), almost something Freud might have said of someone digging into his unconscious mind.

Often we do not like what we find in Pandora's box, but when we can make sense of it, it is just another aspect of life.

I am going to watch this thread, but meanwhile, off to re-read some of my saved translation.
KenArten

I disagree that it's the most profound piece of scripture. It doesn't provoke any thought. The most profound thing about it is that it promotes self-mastery—the anti-thesis of Christianity.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I disagree that it's the most profound piece of scripture. It doesn't provoke any thought.

It doesn't provoke any thought in YOU!

The most profound thing about it is that it promotes self-mastery—the anti-thesis of Christianity.

The antithesis of Christianity as YOU have come to understand it.

Just because you are having a hard time wrapping your mind around this doesn't mean it isn't valid or profound.
You have obviously had your mind in a prison for quite some time and it isn't my job to convince you to come out and get some fresh air. You are comfortable where you are in your understanding of the religion you have decided to release your power to. This is great. Just refrain from making imperical statements that blanket the rest of humanity. Some of us have freed our minds and are having a wonderful time seeing things with fresh eyes which would never have been possible without the courage to stand up to the Bully that has become Christianity.


IMO of course.

reply to post by auraelium


Its like saying once as a collective humans ascend with information/data and possibly the bodies then shall TRUTH shine thru w/o question. I like it.

Here are some I find interesting from revelations in relation to the creations and the elders.

These Creations interest me
4:6Also before the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal. In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back.

4:7The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle.

4:8Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come."

4:9Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever,

Also who ARE the elders of the who sits on the throne
4:10the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

4:11"You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being

Thought provoking and contemplative.

Reminds me of another, similar saying - can't remember where I read it and, of course, I am paraphrasing:

"God" wanted to hide the secrets of the universe.

Shall I hide them on the moon? Nah, because they may end up in the wrong hands by those exploring space.

So He thought of other areas.

Shall I hide them on the bottom of the sea? Nah, because they may end up in the wrong hands by those exploring the ocean.

So He thought of other areas.

I shall hide them within so that only those who turn within and search within themselves will find them.

Sounded much more wise and nicer wherever I read it.

reply to post by Screwed


Anyone else feel the cycle of life rememberance that came from this thread?...

spiritual poverty is the worst. It can kill you just as painfully as starvation. It can disempowered you just as effectively as having a lesser station than another. It can make you live un-satiated for all your days, just like not ever having.

Our connection to the Living God is free, enjoy!

s&f !

Originally posted by Screwed

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I disagree that it's the most profound piece of scripture. It doesn't provoke any thought.

It doesn't provoke any thought in YOU!

The most profound thing about it is that it promotes self-mastery—the anti-thesis of Christianity.

The antithesis of Christianity as YOU have come to understand it.

Just because you are having a hard time wrapping your mind around this doesn't mean it isn't valid or profound.
You have obviously had your mind in a prison for quite some time and it isn't my job to convince you to come out and get some fresh air. You are comfortable where you are in your understanding of the religion you have decided to release your power to. This is great. Just refrain from making imperical statements that blanket the rest of humanity. Some of us have freed our minds and are having a wonderful time seeing things with fresh eyes which would never have been possible without the courage to stand up to the Bully that has become Christianity.


IMO of course.

I was presupposing that everyone realizes we can only each speak our own opinions. I didn't realize I had to put "for me" in front of everything I write. I assumed it was a given. It's YOUR fault for taking it as an absolute statement, even though there was nothing empirical about it. Oddly enough, you immediately contradict yourself by assuming and conveying your assumptions in absolute statements:

Just because you are having a hard time wrapping your mind around this doesn't mean it isn't valid or profound.
You have obviously had your mind in a prison for quite some time and it isn't my job to convince you to come out and get some fresh air. You are comfortable where you are in your understanding of the religion you have decided to release your power to.

Now I know this is opinion, even if you didn't put "to me" in front of it, and thus I can't be offended.

But, every statement you've made about me is a huge assumption. I know this because you don't know me. This leads me to believe that's where you derive all your conclusions—from assumption—whether wrong or right. This isn't my fault.

You are right about one thing, it isn't profound for ME. That's only because I realized this truth long before I read this statement. How can it be profound [to me] any longer?

"in my opinion"

I like this profound and amazing scripture by Jesus Christ.

" I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man can come to the father except by me. "

And this one too, by Jesus....

" I tel you the truth, that unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. "

And one from the Old Testament...

" The heart of a man is desperately wicked, who can know it ? "

Originally posted by auraelium
First of all id like to say that I am not a Christian but i do think that many early Christian scriptures were rewritten from earlier books and there are some incredible lessons to learned from them.

I was introduced to this piece of scripture from reading Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov, who I believe to be one of the greatest philosophers of recent times.Aïvanhov proclaimed this to be of profound importance because of its relation to the ego, both the individual ego of man and the collective ego of the mankind. Aïvanhov believed the ego of man to be the root of all evil.

But on pondering it for many years I have come to the conclusion that it may be even more profound than Aïvanhov may have realized because of its possible connection to the question of extraterrestrial beings and why they may not have made contact with us yet. It also may contain a veiled reference to the nature of the true God who may be of extraterrestrial origin also.
From my own perspective i look on this piece of scripture as the long lost and last piece of a jigsaw puzzle that when put in place,answers many of my own personal questions about the universe.

Its taken from the Gospel of Thomas which wasn't included in the Bible.Some scholars have theorized that the scriptures in the Gospel of Thomas were to arcane and deep for early Biblical scholars and this is why it was omitted.I believe they were left out because some of his teachings may have been to close to the truth.

Theres a few slightly different versions but il quote the one from Aïvanhov's writings.It is as follows.....

"When you know yourselves,then you shall be known.Then you shall know that you are the sons of the living God.
But if you do not know yourselves,then you are alone and dwell in poverty."

It's the knowledge of conscious awareness of the true self being at one with the spirit of the universe, who is truth and life. It is most profound but has nothing to do with extraterrestrials whatsover.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I disagree that it's the most profound piece of scripture. It doesn't provoke any thought. The most profound thing about it is that it promotes self-mastery—the anti-thesis of Christianity.

I understand where you are coming from.If i had of heard this quote 10 years ago i probably would have had the same reaction and most likely would have disregarded it.
In order to understand the gravity of the statement you need to delve deeper into the ego and the self,both individual and collectively.
Some of the greatest philosophers of our times make the case that egotism is the biggest obstacle to creating heaven on earth.
I find it frustrating that human kind is constantly looking for a savior, we are always waiting for a hero figure,be it Jesus or Krishna or who ever to come and save us,to lead us to salvation.But they have already come,the great teachers have already come and gone be we haven't been paying attention.
Sigmund Freud,Carl Jung,Alan Watts,Michael Buchanan,Aivanhov,Wilhelm Reich and many more.They have all come and placed a piece of the puzzle on the table.We just haven't realized it yet.All we need to do is put the puzzle together.These great teachers have all given us more than we need to make all our dreams reality.

Thomas is one of my favorite books...

18 The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"

Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.

Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."



The entire book is beautiful...

I would suggest to anyone who understands the words of Jesus... read Thomas...

reluctant-messenger.com...

Must...first...denounce...christianity. Then compliment the teachings of Yeshua ha'Meshiyach in which the faith is based on.

Ah the paradoxes!

I was agnostic, now i'm christian and i am not ashamed. We are what we are.

If people are brave enough to throw away their self conception they will realize that behind it all, what looks out from behind your eyes and every thought you take, is God the creator. This is the profundity of the quote

I really like the quotes from the top posts! I haven been thinking in those lanes for a long time now, while believing...

Matthew 21:19-21 19 And seeing a fig tree by the wayside, he went to it and found nothing on it but only leaves. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once. 20 When the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, “How did the fig tree wither at once?” 21 And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen.

We have the power to do anything, as long as we have faith. One way or another! That's the lesson to be learned.

Originally posted by auraelium

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I disagree that it's the most profound piece of scripture. It doesn't provoke any thought. The most profound thing about it is that it promotes self-mastery—the anti-thesis of Christianity.

I understand where you are coming from.If i had of heard this quote 10 years ago i probably would have had the same reaction and most likely would have disregarded it.
In order to understand the gravity of the statement you need to delve deeper into the ego and the self,both individual and collectively.
Some of the greatest philosophers of our times make the case that egotism is the biggest obstacle to creating heaven on earth.
I find it frustrating that human kind is constantly looking for a savior, we are always waiting for a hero figure,be it Jesus or Krishna or who ever to come and save us,to lead us to salvation.But they have already come,the great teachers have already come and gone be we haven't been paying attention.
Sigmund Freud,Carl Jung,Alan Watts,Michael Buchanan,Aivanhov,Wilhelm Reich and many more.They have all come and placed a piece of the puzzle on the table.We just haven't realized it yet.All we need to do is put the puzzle together.These great teachers have all given us more than we need to make all our dreams reality.

In my opinion, our ego is what defines us as humans. Without it, we wouldn't be aware of ourselves. If we got rid of it—like most seem to want—we'd be unable to define ourselves. Besides, eliminating the ego is only possible if every human stopped communicating to each other for numerous generations, as our egos are the product of our language. Without the ego, there wouldn't be heaven on earth, because we wouldn't realize the concepts of heaven and earth. We'd have to be ignorant of everything, and rely strictly on our mammalian impulses and instincts to survive. Heaven on earth is found in control of the ego, through the self-mastery of every human.

Anyways.. my two cents. Also, star for you for mentioning Wilhelm Reich.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


like anything it must b true to b right

a thing is true when it is absolutely free, only that way it is constantly right

so a word dont mean a thing bc a word is for a sentence that mean smthg else that another freedom want to get or point out as relative fact

ego is right only if it is true, which mean when self awareness is realizing things or itself alone, then yes it is a definitive absolute value that must detach itself more from all rest while keep confirming being constant value fact bc true
what is true is beyond superiority so superior to absolute superiority, as definitive value existing, so despising even superiority for being above it

while anything must b true as it is a thing only bc it is true