You Westerners Are Deluded

Originally posted by Torbu
reply to post by TheMatrixusesYou

 

It can also be argued that a non-selfish behaviour is also a selfish behaviour so that communism or socialism actually could work precisely because of selfishness as the capitalism does. The only difference is that socialism is more evolved than capitalism and communism more evolved than socialism. After all capitalism is quite close to the law of jungle, isn't it?

I guess Stalin, Mao and Pol Pots' failure in economic distribution were just a small mistake, huh?

About Jesus and the teaching you may as well say that after all you do what is written in the bible from self interest as you want to end up in heaven not in hell... But there, I think, the real or at least official lesson, is that you should not be selfish.

Yeah, unfortunately the first thing to go with religions in Communist countries, is CHRISTIANITY!
So that example is useless.

And in order to stay on topic, I think it's not quite hard to understand that having more ppl focused on the same task is better than having fewer ppl staying focused on that same task and competing among them. Sure there is a balance somewhere on the amount of ppl that are usefull for a given task and over that team size the synergy stops working, but if you can, and with the new technologies you can, coordinate ppl nicely, the results can be quite amazing... take whatever open source project as an example.

And if your quotas and national product percentages aren't what you wanted, just get your comrades to fudge the numbers, and voila! Success! (don't worry about those who starved to death. It was the fault of capitalism....somehow...

Originally posted by Torbu
reply to post by TheMatrixusesYou

 

It can also be argued that a non-selfish behaviour is also a selfish behaviour so that communism or socialism actually could work precisely because of selfishness as the capitalism does. The only difference is that socialism is more evolved than capitalism and communism more evolved than socialism. After all capitalism is quite close to the law of jungle, isn't it?

About Jesus and the teaching you may as well say that after all you do what is written in the bible from self interest as you want to end up in heaven not in hell... But there, I think, the real or at least official lesson, is that you should not be selfish.

And in order to stay on topic, I think it's not quite hard to understand that having more ppl focused on the same task is better than having fewer ppl staying focused on that same task and competing among them. Sure there is a balance somewhere on the amount of ppl that are usefull for a given task and over that team size the synergy stops working, but if you can, and with the new technologies you can, coordinate ppl nicely, the results can be quite amazing... take whatever open source project as an example.
So if you are going to compare capitalism with communism from a productive point of view I think capitalism is always going to lose. Not that in capitalism people work less, they actually might be working more overall but there is too many people with a selfish will to success for themselves. And being honest... if success means I have a bigger house than you do, we can't both succeed.

I'm having trouble understanding your points. I understand when you show how the idea is what you say it is.

For example when you say:

It can also be argued that a non-selfish behaviour is also a selfish behaviour so that communism or socialism actually could work precisely because of selfishness as the capitalism does. The only difference is that socialism is more evolved than capitalism and communism more evolved than socialism. After all capitalism is quite close to the law of jungle, isn't it?

I thought I was actually arguing that supposed non-selfish behavior is also selfish. That's what I'm saying. Then you follow that with "so communism or socialism actually could work because of selfishness as the capitalism does" and that doesn't make sense to me as a point you want to make. How does communism work because of selfishness? Unless you're trying to say that laborers will compete with each other for who can work better? Maybe. I don't think that works with communism. That's the point. You could have a lazy bum on your team that doesn't work. That's how the US military runs. It is essentially a communist run organization where they tell you where to work and what to do and there are no rewards for extra work.

Capitalism rewards you for everything you do. Capitalism wins so well, it makes others jealous. Have you ever heard the phrase, "a raised nail gets hammered"? Everyone tries to tear down the person that's successful and this I can see happening in the world.

reply to post by Clearskies


You said it so clearly and eloquently, I don't know what else to say!

Let me add that communism uses fear while capitalism uses reward.

reply to post by freakjive


I totally agree with you. But i do see reason to sell off all the jobs actually. with copy-rights to them. i kinda put this together a wile back. this is my theory on why we did what we did. on selling china the work. 1 big reason to this i do believe of-corse this is my opinion. with space programs now public. and plans to mine asteroid's we are going to be soon dealing with alot of different compounds/ materials. and lots of new jobs. We just dumped them before they drop in value. soon we will be building that same item just with different materials and guess what we dont brake no copy-writes. so china can keep building out dated stuff wile you will have to come to us for the good stuff. and as far as being the super power that thinks we have to police everything. its basically the way i see it anyway. you can have it man. im sick of being the only country that has to pay the bill for this crap. i do believe after this space stuff gets on the way. that America will be back on top soon just has to go in a transition period.

Originally posted by freakjive
Take it...you can have all the power you want. I as a westerner and an American am simply tired of dealing with the responsibilities that come with being the world's dominant power.

I never wanted it to begin with. I was just dealt this hand. I'll do what I can to change it.

Good luck!

... and as the world shrinks, it isn't getting easier.

I'm not exactly pro-America, but take a look around these threads and you'll get the impression that the U.S. is the most evil force to ever have existed.

What a load. If any of the wannabe superpower countries were exposed to such scrutiny they could not even hope to compare themselves. They could no longer hide behind the worlds celebrity nation. Out comes your dirty laundry and the whole world will hate you while it plots against you.

I'd go as far as to say, the next superpower will be destroyed in a decade, never to raise it's head again.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


They don't "fill them up" because 90% of the population there makes less than $8000/year, and cannot come even close to the strict mortgage terms that exist there. Their idea of a mortgage is 1/3 up front and the rest within 6 months. China is not the veritable superpower that it is painted out to be. Neither is the States. You need to realize that the "puppeteer" (banking cabal) is pulling the strings on both sides of every major conflict of interest that has occurred within the last 100 years at least (possibly even as far back as the War of Independance), including all the sabre rattling that you see going on throughout the world. Don't believe me? Just look at the 5 corporations that own all of your telecommunications and mainstream media. They are the ones who supply 90% of the population with their point of view. When you couple that with the tendency of school systems to breed gullibility towards the system and hostility towards anyone who tries to get a different POV across, it leads to masses of extremely gullible people. It's not their fault, it is what it is. Don't get your panties all in a bunch at the symptom of the problem. What you need to do is quite a bit more research and figure out what the real problem is. I could explain it until I'm blue in the face, but the fact is, you need to come to the conclusion yourself. If not, it becomes just another emotionally compromised individual striking out at the first thing in reach. You're gonna have to try harder than that if you want to save any shreds of credibility you may still have.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital



Us Americans say stuff like doom and gloom since the beginning of our nation so we don't get too soft. Looking back on American history, Americans have always been antagonistic towards some group. First the British, French, British, Moors, Mexico, Southern States,Spain, Germany/Austria/Ottomans,British(was almost a war between the USA and Britain in the 1920's),Nazi's/Italy/Japan, USSR/China/NK/Cuba/Vietnam(insert commie friendly nation), Iran/Afghanistan/Iraq/Islam, and now China/Russia/Brazil are being painted as the new adversaries. And the funny thing is, I probably left someone out.


Only EU is falling. America is still very, very strong. Heck my home state of Pennsylvania would utterly annihilate Australia if a war was ever fought between the two.


So one state out of 50 in the USA is capable of turning Australia into a parking lot. I know Australia was started as a penal colony, so I know the genetics for trolling, psychopathy and delusion run high there and could explain why the majority of Academic wackjobs are from Australia, the land of inbred criminals.

The only scary thing about the EU falling apart is, when Europeans are desperate they will try to build an Empire, and they do have A LOT OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY. You think Russia and China will stop them? Heck Russia and China will probably join in on the fun as Africa, Asia and maybe even Latin America is utterly pillaged into slavery.

That is what the fall of the West means, the fall into savage barbarism, the likes of which have not been seen for almost two hundred years.

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


what you dont think the nwo isnt effecting us all? your in australia,you tell me they dont feed you floride and gmo foods there?guess again,this effect us all,east and west,north and south,wake up dude!!!work to end it not glorify it!

Dude, I've been to Dubai and Kuwait.
There is no better place on Earth that defines the term 'Polish A Turd' more than those places.

The east has a LONG way to go before it sits on par with the West.

Also, there's only so much time before Phillipino's realise that they have inadvertently become slaves.…

reply to post by korathin

So one state out of 50 in the USA is capable of turning Australia into a parking lot. I know Australia was started as a penal colony, so I know the genetics for trolling, psychopathy and delusion run high there and could explain why the majority of Academic wackjobs are from Australia, the land of inbred criminals.

I'm Australian and I did nothing to deserve your trolling.

Furthermore, who is to say that the OP is actually Australian? If you hadn't noticed our patch of dirt is highly coveted by those he states are on the winning team. "Divide and conquer" anyone.

I don't know about this place, but on You Tube I've personally busted 100's of fake accounts (usually Japs and some Indians) pretending to Australian, who antagonize people in Australia's name or Australians in the name of any country they can think of.

so...
QUIT
YOUR
TROLLING

Here's a lesson to be learnt from this OP's message. US is not the hegemony on internet trolling. I doubt that paid shills from America make as much 5% of what is out there (add non-English speaking and I'll guess about 0.5%), even though US remains the focus of blame for paid shills, idiot nationalist etc, which strikes me as really stupid.

In this case, the OP is right. You like to think it is all about America and in doing so you underestimate the rest of the planet. This is a far more widespread problem than is understood. I say this, knowing that some very decent and open mined Americans make this mistake. They are intelligent people who should know better, so it appears to me this is a hardwired behavior that will be very hard to get rid of.