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You Westerners Are Deluded

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posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by TheMatrixusesYou
 


Actually I would argue unions are a result of the business cycle.

The problem is saying workers demand better 'pay', but what they really demand is a bigger share of the profit.
Capitalists of course don't see it that way, and instead they increase prices in order to maintain profits. That causes the viscous cycle of higher prices leading to a demand for more pay to keep up. That is not the fault of the workers or the unions but of capitalism, and it's desire to make increasing profit.

Workers recognized the only way to protect their own interests, as a whole, was to organize. Unions are a necessity, not the problem. Without unions there would be no weekends, no 40 hour week, no vacations, no safety, no minimum wage. Imagine the industrial revolution...




Capitalism doesn't care about people, only exploiting them to make profit.
Unions have killed america. they want a bigger share of the profit? they should start their own business and work for it. when you work for someone you get paid what they offer to pay you and you should feel blessed to have a job. unions have become way to powerful. getting paid $40 per hour to push a broom is just crazy.




posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by RSF77You know we did it before right?


My thoughts as well, and we didn't have to. While it did save many lives, including Japanese, I am just saying that we had a choice to invade instead. One day, the situation might come down to our very survival, where we have no choice but one. I pray to god that day never comes. Isn't it ironic though that we dropped those two Nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and now somehow we are getting payed back, If in fact that is the case? Strange I must say. ~$heopleNation
edit on 8-5-2012 by SheopleNation because: TypO



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 


it seems as though you want the people in america to suffer. why would you want ANYONE to suffer?

I didn't read that from the poster. What goes around comes around? Do to others what you want them to do back to you? Karma? Justice? Ummmm.... There is a way of things and America has is been found wanting. I am American and I can see that. We are a nation of Narcissists and don't care about anyone but ourselves. Why should the world react any differently?

Or let me put it like this. America is big on law and order right? With stiff penalties for criminals who go to their neighbors house at night, kick in the door, murder some of the people there, take their stuff, move in and enslave the survivors and maybe kill some more and burn the place to the ground before they leave. How many laws would you say those criminals broke?

Say a child of that era grows up in the ashes of his home. What do you think is on his mind as he becomes a young man?



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by RSF77
 


Well I think the level of seriousness that they go to probably could not be defined. They would take it to such an extreme that it would peg the needle. After all the Pentagon was who came up with the idea of putting people in pods like in the movie The Matrix in order to have a power source underground. Their extreme thinking is truly nightmarish.

Going by that logic, and maybe its cuz I was also in the military, I could reverse my earlier thought and say that the US is the only power that has the technology to launch nukes and that the secrets that have been leaked were proxies. You never really know.
edit on 8-5-2012 by TheMatrixusesYou because: proofreading



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:29 PM
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We'll have to learn to live with what we have been dealt. It looks like We have been led to put trust in the wrong people. Most workers in the USA in the seventies knew it was bad to send our jobs overseas but many influential people at the top were convinced that a type of economy that was tried and failed many times throughout history would work now. I don't know why anyone would believe such a misconception. I guess there was no proof that this version would fail and just because all other versions failed it is irrelevant. That is the most idiotic perception I have heard of.

We don't have the money anymore to start the factories. Companies sold out to corporations that shut down factories and demolished the buildings. This policy has made the USA completely dependant on other nations to survive. This is not going to be easily fixed. Our real jobs have left the country. It wasn't the unions that caused it as the big businesses would have us believe, it was our loss of loyalty for our fellow citizens. Our own sense of pride in ourselves caused the export of jobs from here instead of maintaining self control of wages and buying American made products.. I have seen attempts by Employees try to stop the destruction of businesses that were bought to destroy competition. It didn't work.

This practice of outsourcing jobs is what led to the collapse of the USA. You notice I said the USA has collapsed, it has, we just don't know it yet. When we finally realize it all our allies allies will also fall. Like dominoes the capitalistic world will collapse. This was foretold about forty years ago by many people knowledgeable about economy. This is not a Mayan prediction, it is a forty year old USA born prediction come true.

So, what are we going to do? I don't think there is anything we can do. Our real debt is not being told to us. The debt is actually many times bigger than they let out because we have guaranteed many loans. America has become a Zombie nation, it seems to have lost it's moral soul.
edit on 8-5-2012 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by TheMatrixusesYou
reply to post by RSF77
 


Well I think the level of seriousness that they go to probably could not be defined. They would take it to such an extreme that it would peg needle. After all the Pentagon was who came up with the idea of putting people in pods like in the movie The Matrix in order to have a power source under ground. Their extreme thinking is truly nightmarish.

Going by that logic, and maybe its cuz I was also in the military, I could reverse my earlier thought and say that the US is the only power that has the technology to launch nukes and that the secrets that have been leaked were proxies. You never really know.


Yea, it's really going to be a bitch getting our country back from people that have nuclear weapons.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 


it seems as though you want the people in america to suffer. why would you want ANYONE to suffer?

I didn't read that from the poster. What goes around comes around? Do to others what you want them to do back to you? Karma? Justice? Ummmm.... There is a way of things and America has is been found wanting. I am American and I can see that. We are a nation of Narcissists and don't care about anyone but ourselves. Why should the world react any differently?

Or let me put it like this. America is big on law and order right? With stiff penalties for criminals who go to their neighbors house at night, kick in the door, murder some of the people there, take their stuff, move in and enslave the survivors and maybe kill some more and burn the place to the ground before they leave. How many laws would you say those criminals broke?

Say a child of that era grows up in the ashes of his home. What do you think is on his mind as he becomes a young man?

i believe you're talking about the government.....i'm referring to people.........you know innocent people. we (the american people) didn't do any of those things.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by IndianaOps
reply to post by CrimsonKapital
 


I love how people like you wear your ignorance like a badge of honor, look at what you wrote, do you really think that the few people you read about or read peoples posts is a verbatum ideal that represents the billions of westerners. come on you dont know me and you dont know half of the people you think you do no one knows anyone really we all live our lives trying to get through it. You speak of western and eastern but if you look at the attitude you have as you type your no different than anyone else you have a hatred that is common to all its called being human and feeling you need to pick a side. Then one day you will wake up (or a least i hope you do) and realize we are all on the same planet and we are all human your ideals about the east are no different then theirs about the west so basically your attitude is just as bad as the people you complain about. If you or the east truly are better then why are you here just like the rest of us, why are you not out and about trying to do better, what difference do you see when you have 2 people that are morons but one is dressed better and has more money and power than the other. At the end of the day none of that matters they are both still morons. No one is better than another and you will find out one day hopefully not to late.


Let me reiterate, I only say Westerner in response to those "westerners" who believe their total collapse would be the trigger for a nwo. Thats what I'm saying, their fall will create the rise of the East or BRICS (emerging nations) not a nwo like "some not all" westerners believe. So your accusation that I am verbally attacking you for being a westerner is unfounded, I am not attacking anybody and I pick no sides.



adding that ask yourself your example of China being a powerful easterner where would they bee if tomorrow everyone around the globe stopped buying their products right, they would no better than anyone else every and i do mean EVERY empire falls since the beginning now seems to be thier turn but it will end and a new power will rise that's life.


If everyone in the West stopped buying their crap tommorrow China would fall like a stack of cards, that is not hard to understand. I agree though all empires fall eventually, but what the West is most famous for is its ability to collapse and rebuild rather quickly.



Stop with the whining about who is more powerful because the last time i checked speak to the chinese citizens trying to get by, they are in no better situation than anyone else there are extreme problems in that country like every where else as a matter of fact i believe the last time i checked China, N Korea and the like had worse living conditions for their citizens than anywhere on top of polution. So what good is power and ruling a country when all of its people are dropping like flies.

Like i said keep on being ignorant i need some humor in my life


Like I said before, in my OP, and all over this thread, I am not attacking either the West or the East and I am not whining about who is more powerful, if thats all you understood than reread.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
If everyone in the West stopped buying their crap tommorrow China would fall like a stack of cards, that is not hard to understand. I agree though all empires fall eventually, but what the West is most famous for is its ability to collapse and rebuild rather quickly.


Controlled chaos. The idea of liberty to refresh the corrupting force of order.

That's why they call it the free world.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by CrimsonKapital
 


In the past the west has collapsed and rebuilt quickly. We are not the same people our ancestors were, many more of us have become spoiled. this is the problem, the people don't desire to work anymore, they want office jobs.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by solongandgoodnight

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital

Originally posted by Mkoll
Why the hell can't we all just rise together instead of fighting in all these various arenas(philosophical, cultural, economic, religious) for dominance?

In the meantime while that dream remains unrealized let them have the power, so long as they don't exploit us. The Chinese are more numerous and, to be honest, more conscious than us Americans. They have a better chance to take the power back from the oligarchy.


Well maybe its because you kicked them around, exploited their lands, and made war against them? Many countries in Asia haven't forgotten how they were treated under European colonialism, why can't they do the same what you did to them?
you seem to be a very bitter person for whatever reason. it seems as though you want the people in america to suffer. why would you want ANYONE to suffer?


Um I don't want anyone to suffer, and I never said I wanted the American people to suffer. I said that in response to Mkoll which he said.


Why the hell can't we all just rise together instead of fighting in all these various arenas(philosophical, cultural, economic, religious) for dominance?

In the meantime while that dream remains unrealized let them have the power, so long as they don't exploit us.


Then I told him about how Europe has dominated and exploited Asia for over 500 years. Many Asian countries haven't forgotten their former colonial masters you know?



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by RSF77

Originally posted by TheMatrixusesYou
reply to post by RSF77
 


Well I think the level of seriousness that they go to probably could not be defined. They would take it to such an extreme that it would peg needle. After all the Pentagon was who came up with the idea of putting people in pods like in the movie The Matrix in order to have a power source under ground. Their extreme thinking is truly nightmarish.

Going by that logic, and maybe its cuz I was also in the military, I could reverse my earlier thought and say that the US is the only power that has the technology to launch nukes and that the secrets that have been leaked were proxies. You never really know.


Yea, it's really going to be a bitch getting our country back from people that have nuclear weapons.


And that's assuming we are right in all of our assumptions and jests. Our whole conversation is based on the thin stories we hear through the mainstream media, alternate media, and "leaked" information. We base everything off that. Nothing from real experience in a lab or reading the document directly in the oval office. From a distance is all we have.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:39 PM
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nvm.
edit on 8-5-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by CrimsonKapital
 


In the past the west has collapsed and rebuilt quickly. We are not the same people our ancestors were, many more of us have become spoiled. this is the problem, the people don't desire to work anymore, they want office jobs.


Oh really?
You don't think the Romans were spoilt? They had a very luxurious life and when it all collapsed Europe fell into the Dark Ages. While it was a terrible time, eventually, people picked themselves back up and started again...



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by TheMatrixusesYou
reply to post by nightbringr
 


This might sound crazy, but I'd put money on it that we nor any other nation would actually use nukes.


When you have no money, nukes might look good.

Lets take a wild hypothetical look at this. The situation is 5 years after a complete US financial collapse. The country manages to avoid being split into individual, autonomous states somehow and is ruled by what is most likely an authoritarian government. The military has practically collapsed as limited funds must be spent on policing the local population. But the US will never allow its nuclear deterant to become obsolete, perhaps spending every last dollar on it. Its sovereignty would depend upon it. The alternative would be eventual political subversion from the political superpowers of the day. This isnt hard to believe. The US is in crisis, yet it still spends exhorbitantly on its military.

In order to defend US interests, they enact a policy and a show of force. To respond to a military threat upon its interests, it uses a low-yield tactical or strategic weapon to show that it means business. The statement here being that any provocation will be met with an overwhelming response so far beyond the provocation as to make any regime, no matter how suicidal, think twice.

The Russians have stated this policy over and over again of first use in times of threat. Their politicans have made these threats during the Balkan wars, Georgia and more. It sounds brutal, but its a very real, potent threat. If it can be pulled off without causing an instant global nuclear war, a country can technically defend its interests with a minimal military expenditure. The obvious downside is a lowered threshold for nuclear use from most likely all nuclear armed countries. If they can do it, why cant we?

So again yes, i fear a economic collapse in the USA. You are a very proud people who im sure will never go out without a whimper. Oh yeah, and my Canadian is economy export based. Our #1 customer? America.
edit on 8-5-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:47 PM
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In my opinion both China and India, right now, have the success they have, do to a huge percentage of their population living in slavery. Therefore their respective economies will be imploding sooner or later.
And my bet is that their collapse would come before the collapse of the west.
edit on 8-5-2012 by Torbu because: spelling



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by RSF77
nvm.
edit on 8-5-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)


Hold on now. Back up a second. Don't be ashamed of doing anything, ANYTHING at all for selfish reasons. We are selfish creatures and selfishness is the only reason we do anything. I dare you to challenge me on this. I can even argue that Jesus died on the cross for the sinners because he wanted to feel better about the situation. He wanted to fix a problem.

This is why progressivism, Marxism, and Communism doesn't work. It's exactly why Capitalism is the only thing that works. Read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. I promise you won't be disappointed. The progressives have us so brainwashed, we end up saying things like you're saying and actually think that it represents values that represent us. Don't let that line of thinking foul you up.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by CrimsonKapital
 

It took more than my lifetime for it to rebound. It will take much of my childrens lifetime to rebound. Maybe my grandchildren will see it good again.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by freakjive
Take it...you can have all the power you want. I as a westerner and an American am simply tired of dealing with the responsibilities that come with being the world's dominant power.

I never wanted it to begin with. I was just dealt this hand. I'll do what I can to change it.

Good luck!


So you want to be another Tibet?... That is what will happen to western countries slowly as mainly China takes over.

If you want to see what will happen to the world when China takes control just look at Tibet and what has been happening there...

I am sick and tired of propaganda shills from the east, mainly Chinese CCP mouthpieces claiming "the world will be wonderful when the east takes over"...



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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Hey, hey, wait now, my beloved Canadian province wants no part. None, zilch, nil.

While the people here are arguably one of the most raised off local land, our culture is western, and Rihanna and Pitbull follow us as well, to-and-fro. While our news stations aren't as callous, we are similar, just north. We don't have a say in the random number generator game we are dealt with at birth, but I respect the citizens of the US all the same. I see many of these opinions split between different countries on ATS, so the title is a bit bold in that regard.

One of the topics I don't have a for-certain opinion on is that of the NWO and Illuminati. I don't deny their existence or the possibility of chaotic agendas abrew for one second, I just don't bother with it. Yes there are very greedy people who make up a small percentage, and yes, because of their petty malevolent needs the world does suffer more than it should. Several countries and families are responsible, but I get a headache as soon as I get into the fray.
 
edit on 8/5/12 by murkraz because: (no reason given)






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