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Exposing the tragic fabrication of a saviour of the world

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posted on May, 8 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Malcher
I will go one step further:

Evolution tells us virgin births DO occur. How do we get around this? My view is we cannot get around this. This is the elephant in the room here.




This occurs naturally as well, is it proof, or "the elephant in the room" for the existence of Kali Maa too?



Since we have seen people who doctors thought were dead, wake up, does that prove the resurrection of Jesus? No. Science can't prove that Jesus died and then was miraculously raised from death any more than it can prove that Jesus was born of a virgin.




posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by Klassified
 


I have a belief that most myths have a kernel, or more, of factual history tied to them. And that many of them are allegories, to obscure certain "truths" from the "unlearned", or "unclean".

Fulcanelli comes to mind. Wasn't it Fulcanelli that said certain texts had a whole different meaning to the learned insider, than the unlearned outsider? In other words. Some ancient texts are esoteric, though they may not appear to be so on the surface.

I agree with you, Klassified, and appreciate your contributions to the discussion.

Interesting that the Buddhist masters also require years of study and absolute certainty that the initiate can be trusted with the most closely-held secrets, such as the pitch and tone required when using a sacred mantra to elicit something from the unseen realms.

As I understand it, the same is true of the Essenes, and of course the Freemasons...
only the few who can be trusted not to wreak havoc with the powerful truth are given it, carefully vetted before it is even considered that they are ready.

Once a thing is known, the knower cannot un-know; better to keep the knowledge safely tucked away -- like a gun in a locked cabinet with keys hidden while the children are too young; and only very slowly exposed to the careful handling, safety, and deadly potential in their hands once they are introduced to firearms.

The idea that the superficial message of scripture is deliberate -- to keep the majority safe from themselves if the power goes into the wrong hands -- makes a great deal of sense, yes.

I think that we who are not privy to these secret revelations will never really know...only a handful know, and even their subordinates only know so much.
That's the typical Top Secret method of info protection, no? "A need to know" basis is the way our entire societies work...from a friendship to a family to a corporation to an army to a country.

As a woman, I have even less chance of being entrusted with the real Truth. While that irritates me, perhaps it is for the best. On the other hand, perhaps it isn't. Aggravating, but

It is what it is. I don't get to be the "decider", because I'm not privileged to the information. Is ANYONE really aware of of ALL of it? Of all people living right now, I have the highest regard for His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, but I don't know everything about him. More than once I have fantasized about going to him and begging for enlightenment. God knows I try, with the time and resources I have....and both of those are finite.
*sigh*



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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In the 1200's right in my back yard in Ontario was a virgin birth
Deganawidah
He created the worlds original and still functioning democracy and constitution
(The Six Nations)
The luciferians are doing their best to dismantle the constitutions he inspired (like the US constitution) as we speak

christianity is one of the prime tools they are using to do this dismantling
covenents are of the debble
constitutions are from the creator

this explains why the Israelis need hundreds of nuclear weapons to survive and the Iroquis do not



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



As a woman, I have even less chance of being entrusted with the real Truth.

Don't let anyone tell you different: As a woman you already know.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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Ahh.... I haven't commented on an unbeliever post in a long time, mostly because they can't see what they refuse to believe, but here goes.

Jesus Christ is real. I know because I feel His presence in me and can hear Him at times when He speaks to me. This is something the atheist and the agnostic can't understand, nor will they. To them it's all fairy tales, and the Bible says that this is how they will see it. The Bible, and therefore God is spiritually understood. And without God, it means nothing to you. So if it means nothing to you, you don't know or have God. If you're not sure, then you're not lost quite yet and there is hope.

In the end, everyone will know that Jesus is real, even those who deny Him for now. Anyway, there's my opinion.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 



The ideas connected with him are surely more important than any physical manifestation could possibly be – even though one of those ideas is that he was physically real. The teachings and living example attributed to Jesus and the idea that the world could be saved by love have influenced and helped shape human culture ever since. We may disagree about the nature and value of that influence, yet we cannot but acknowledge that it exists.

I have said this many times myself...
it doesn't really MATTER if he lived or not, if he died at the crucifixion or not, if he was a Buddhist master or not...
what matters is the LESSONS.

It seems to me that our species should not need to rely on myth and fear to behave ourselves. Some days I think that we actually ARE "living the dream" , perhaps only a minority of us now, but again, this thinking is nothing new. There have always been dissenters and whistle-blowers and curious researchers.

I believe that as a race, we CAN rise above the petty bickering, the hostility and hatred and finger-pointing...and turn the tide so that ALL people are cared for, appreciated, given dignity and validation. So that we are finally all on the same page...the same level of awareness...

My greatest hope is that this will come to pass rather than the race once again DESTROYING itself and having to start all over AGAIN. I wonder if others in this thread think that perhaps this is not the first go-round?

I like to hang out in the Ancient and Lost Civilizations forum, too. Just too many extinctions for it to be anomalous. We are on the brink AGAIN...and to me it doesn't matter who the messenger is so much as that the message is DELIVERED and taken to heart. For example, the Galactic Federation of Light has been pooh-poohed and even tossed out of the ATS topic pool, as I understand it. Yet, their message is uplifting in many ways. Some day maybe the Abrahamic faiths, too, will be labelled "hoax", and we can move on.

Not saying I think it, just saying we NEED TO GET UNSTUCK.
Thanks for joining in here...I'm really glad to see there is interest in K Humphrey's info this time!



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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Astyanax,



What figures? Statues of goddesses? Easily identified by their 'attributes' – the clothes and ornaments they wear, the objects they carry. Hindu deities and Buddhist bodhisattvas are also identified the same way. Most gods and goddesses are.


My point was that it gets to be ridiculous because soon this will get into "this one had an arrow, that one had a bow" and the evidence is all very interpretive and that is in most cases being generous.



The Greek myths were already fully formed in the time of Homer, back in the Bronze Age, as we see from reading the Iliad and the Odyssey. There were many variations across time and place, of course, but the virginity of these goddesses is quite conventional. Every Roman schoolchild knew the details, and we have no shortage of historical records.


In order to prove this we need to go to the original sources and do this on a statue by staue basis. If you want to do that then go ahead. I bet you dont find much though.

The old testament states that the messiah would come from a virgin type of birth. It was written around 1450 B.C. and over a period of 1,500 years. This is not some new revelation. I dont know what to say if you dont agree with it. We should not fixate on the word "virgin" though.


And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Genesis 3:15




So we're going to have an argument about evolution now? Oh no, we aren't. Nice try.


Do you have an explanation for what i wrote?

Do you not think it is relevant?

How could it not be relevant?

If evolution tells us humans came about unconventionally then we have to consider this.

ETA:

Inn fact, everything in nature came about unconventionally. The first plant, the first clam, the first human.

How would you explain this? How could humanity have started if not for an unconventional means?

Explain that one.
edit on 8-5-2012 by Malcher because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by Fromabove
 


Jesus Christ is real. I know because I feel His presence in me and can hear Him at times when He speaks to me. This is something the atheist and the agnostic can't understand, nor will they.

You are talking about the connectedness of every living thing to the Divine, not Jesus Christ.
Many, many people who are not Christians know precisely the feeling you have, for we have it TOO.

So, your statement is Not True, and I am not an un-believer. I am an agnostic seeker at this point, and I feel the same thing in me that you do. A presence, a Divine Spark, an inner voice that compels me .... that tells me we are all connected, we are all "gods" and will all go "home" eventually....

your blanket description of "un-believers" and their lack of capacity to recognize the Divine Spark within -- your "nor will they" and "they can't understand" -- is patently FALSE.
So booya.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by Malcher
I will go one step further:

Evolution tells us virgin births DO occur. How do we get around this? My view is we cannot get around this. This is the elephant in the room here.


-image above-

This occurs naturally as well, is it proof, or "the elephant in the room" for the existence of Kali Maa too?

-image above-


Is it proof? No, it is not definitive proof and any more than that i cannot say.




Since we have seen people who doctors thought were dead, wake up, does that prove the resurrection of Jesus? No. Science can't prove that Jesus died and then was miraculously raised from death any more than it can prove that Jesus was born of a virgin.


But you (we) can prove that these people were dead and became alive again. We can prove the occurrence but not the process to go from one state to another. And to be clear, they were not thought to be dead...they were dead.
edit on 8-5-2012 by Malcher because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Fromabove
 


Jesus Christ is real. I know because I feel His presence in me and can hear Him at times when He speaks to me. This is something the atheist and the agnostic can't understand, nor will they.

You are talking about the connectedness of every living thing to the Divine, not Jesus Christ.
Many, many people who are not Christians know precisely the feeling you have, for we have it TOO.

So, your statement is Not True, and I am not an un-believer. I am an agnostic seeker at this point, and I feel the same thing in me that you do. A presence, a Divine Spark, an inner voice that compels me .... that tells me we are all connected, we are all "gods" and will all go "home" eventually....

your blanket description of "un-believers" and their lack of capacity to recognize the Divine Spark within -- your "nor will they" and "they can't understand" -- is patently FALSE.
So booya.




See, here we cannot agree. To me, what you experience is the soothing deception of the imposter that says to you we are all one, we are all god. But this was the very statement used to entice Eve and Adam in the beginning, that they too can as gods, to be like god, to be god.

The word unbeliever is not an insult but a description where I apply it, to indicate that you, or those who are the same, do not put confidence in the Bible. Everyone believes something. You believe what you do. But then, you say that I believe something that is "not true ".

What we do agree on is that we both disagree. I can only state my experience with God and His Son Jesus Christ who is no fairy tale to me. He is both real and God. I am not God, but I am one in God as I have brothers and sisters like me who are all one in God, but we are not God. The universe is merely a house in which we live, but the universe is not God, nor are the other creatures in the universe God. God is greater than the house that we are in, and only He is God.

But having said that I cannot say that you will believe me. You have to understand God on His terms not ours. He will hide from you if you seek to do it any other way. And then another smooth talker will come and say it's cool cause you are gods.

I do not mean any insult to you so don't take it as such. I am just responding to your reply as best I know how.





edit on 8-5-2012 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by Malcher
 

What's with all the statues? It is not from statues that we learn the ancient myths.


Soon this will get into "this one had an arrow, that one had a bow" and the evidence is all very interpretive and that is in most cases being generous.

Traditional attributes for major deities are pretty unambiguous. They have to be; how else is the worshipper to know he's making his obeisances before the correct deity? If you see a Hindu god riding a peacock, it's Murugan. If you see a Greek goddess with an owl, it's Athena. No ifs or buts.


In order to prove this we need to go to the original sources and do this on a statue by staue basis.

What, exactly, would we be proving (or disproving) if we did this?


How could humanity have started if not for an unconventional means?

The first try was nice. Let's leave it at that, shall we?



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 11:13 AM
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Astyanax,
reply to post by Malcher
 




What's with all the statues? It is not from statues that we learn the ancient myths.


My whole point is that often times the staue is found first and the story created around it when the fact is someone could have just been creating a statue, just like we do today. We are not discussing those here and really this has been gone over so many times it is getting comical. Your interpretation may be different but i still think it is pushing the limits of the scope of this thread.



Traditional attributes for major deities are pretty unambiguous. They have to be; how else is the worshipper to know he's making his obeisances before the correct deity? If you see a Hindu god riding a peacock, it's Murugan. If you see a Greek goddess with an owl, it's Athena. No ifs or buts.


Not telling us anything new here.

How could humanity have started if not for an unconventional means?



The first try was nice. Let's leave it at that, shall we?


What do you mean try? Is that statement, that all life began unconventionally, not true?



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by Malcher
 





But you (we) can prove that these people were dead and became alive again. We can prove the occurrence but not the process to go from one state to another. And to be clear, they were not thought to be dead...they were dead.


People were known to come back to life so often that coffins were built with air tubes and bells, so the the reawakened dead could summons someone to rescue them. There are countless stories, of people of all walks of life, who were supposedly dead, coming back.

Are we to believe that these are all examples of god bringing them back to life, through divinity? Are they all examples of the resurrection process that Jesus supposedly went through. If so, should we treat them as saints, pray to them also?

Gee, Jesus doesn't seem so divine anymore. Virgin birth=natural, death=happens to everyone, resurrection=a common occurrence. Buddha, Lao Tsu, Ghandi etc. have given us pearls of wisdom too. I guess you're right, there were many "Jesus" characters.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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*sigh*

How do you account for the events?


Without the resurrection there is no early christian movement.

It's just that simple.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by Malcher
 


My whole point is that often times the staue is found first and the story created around it when the fact is someone could have just been creating a statue, just like we do today.

No, the myths are older than the statues. I already mentioned Homer.


We are not discussing those here and really this has been gone over so many times it is getting comical. Your interpretation may be different but i still think it is pushing the limits of the scope of this thread.

I'm afraid I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.


Not telling us anything new here.

Precisely. So there's your argument demolished by an own goal.


How could humanity have started if not for an unconventional means?

Please explain, first, why you think my views on the origins of humanity have any bearing on the topic of this thread.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by followtheevidence
*sigh*

How do you account for the events?


Without the resurrection there is no early christian movement.

It's just that simple.


What events? You and I weren't there. The account we have is no more or less relible than any other "historical" account. And probably less, considering there were many who had a vested interest in how that history was recorded on both sides.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by followtheevidence
 


A resurrection event isn't necessary for a religion to be born. Look at Buddhism. No resurrection event, big religion! Same with Judaism and Islam.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by Klassified
 


You forget, MOST of us were pagans before following the way. Those of us with passion actually understand the things we read in the Bible as the Holy Spirit enlightens us and testifies to us.
I have read the Bible many times and have been doing word studies for a long time and no, you certainly DO NOT understand the Bible better than us.
I lived a life outside of truth.
I know it maybe better than you.
I don't have to experience the same pitfalls as you to turn around and go the right way. You are using circle logic in a cheap attempt to get an upper hand without doing the due diligence that has passed you by.
Your pre-suppositions now drive you and so do mine. To ignore that is to embrace ignorance no matter which path you have chosen.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by windword
 


Go rethink her post after you reread it.
The poiint is simple.
Without the resurrection christianity doesn't exist.
Either He is Risen or He is dead.
I do not worship a dead man.
I bow the knee to the Risen Lord.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I am definitely reading more of that link.

But ask yourselves this question: is religion didn't exist, do you really think we would have the moral fortitude to live decent lives? Or would we convert to pure survivalism...kill or be killed?




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