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. . . with Abrahamic religion it seems "Apologetics" is the crux that hold up the Scriptures - that is, the various versions of God having conversations with select 'prophets".
What is happening is the organized churches are "dead of the spirit of Jesus," meaning they lost the real story of Jesus the Man due to the push to make Jesus, the god, which isn't true.
So, all the issuesare due to this embellished story on Jesus being reset back to reality, but it comes via several wars due to religions that know the facts and those that resist the truth.
Such is the End-Times where the issue of Rapture is about those that suddenly learn of the depths of depravity to which the real story has been converted into a myth.
I think that in the last 1700 years MUCH has been established that debunks MUCH of the Bible, and that it therefore is out of date and too confusing to do any good at this point.
For the OT stories, I just found a brand new book just published like two weeks ago, The Earliest Israelites, written by someone who is apparently an expert on the ancient history and politics of what we now call Turkey (and all the nationalities that originated from there, including the Semites).
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by racasan
Ok, but who is thinking what?
. . . and are beginning to see black/white answers as useless and even dangerous for our future wellbeing . . .
Is it the "masses" that are allowing for the grey, and the powers that be who are in the black/white mentality?
Are they going to bring us into a world war that will eventually settle out to a coming back to sanity?
I do not see that as a viable option since we see the high ideals represented by the Nuremberg trials and the formation of the UN Charter, and the institution of war crime laws and laws for humanity, at the end of WW II. Only to see them go straight down the tubes in the 60's with Vietnam and the Six Day War.
I think we need to wake up now, and not later after billions of war dead.
I see God as a person or persons, similar to how we are all persons but all classified as people.
... Energy & God , both in those 2 different believes have a major role to play and both share the same definition of believe, both can't be broken, destroyed, both always have been, always will be, both play a drastic roll in everything...
Impossible. I can say quite confidently that you and the others were never Christians.
Do you know me personally? Were you there to measure my passion? Were you there to see me witness, and pray the sinners prayer with converts? Were you there when I preached, taught, and served as an elder? Were you there the countless hours I spent pouring over scripture late into the night? Did you hear and answer my prayers for wisdom and revelation? Were you there when I was visiting and praying for the sick and the dying? Or the battered wives of christian husbands? Or to feed and cloth the homeless from my own pocket? Were you there for almost 30 years of my life? No. You weren't my friend. Don't tell me about passion, enlightenment, testimony, and the holy spirit when you have no idea about my life as a christian.
. . . how do we connect the idea of global awakening to the Bible at all?
What I could say about Atwill is a criticism by scholars given to Bowman's work, of being "too clever". There is no way that anyone has ever been able to give a full accounting for what is in the Gospels.
Originally posted by wildtimes
I see it that way, too...
the Rapture, in my mind, is the Awakening to the collective awareness of what was meant by "Thy Kingdom Come on Earth" -- peace on Earth and Goodwill toward Men. It isn't going to be a sudden disappearance of physical bodies or rising of zombies...it won't be a one-minute-they're-here-the-next-they're-gone sort of thing. It has started...and is spreading...like seeds afloat on a gentle breeze.
Originally posted by MagnumOpus
All the misunderstandings seemed to compound themselves as the issues of the Essene wanted to have Heaven Upon the Earth or as you cite "Thy Kingdom Come on Earth" meant that god also had to come to the Earth and too many misread this as Jesus would become god. Which is wrong as he was only the way to knowing god and the total truth on religion made heaven on Earth and god contained automatically.
The problems is they got way to caught up with their embellished languages and allegorical speaking, so that even the Disciples took off in wrong directions. John, in Revelations, appears to have recognized all the wrong directions and predicts all the churches would fall away from the truth and this is the central issue for the Rapture back to being on track with the correct beliefs.
15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
9) And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
It’s almost as bad, in fact, as The Jesus Mysteries by Freke & Gandy (and I did not hyperlink that title because I absolutely do not want you to buy it: it will disease your mind with rampant unsourced falsehoods and completely miseducate you about the ancient world and ancient religion)
Ehrman on Jesus: A Failure on Facts and Logic
Almost none of this 361 page book is a critique of the “bad” mythicists. He barely even mentions most of them. Indeed, if he mentioned Atwill even once it was in passing at best, and for the few authors he spends any time discussing (mainly Murdock and Freke & Gandy), he is largely dismissive and careless (indeed, his only real refutation of them amounts to little more than nine pages, pp. 21-30). I was hoping for a well-researched refutation of these authors so I could recommend this book to students, so they could see what sound scholarship looks like and to correct the errors in their heads after reading authors like these. But this book simply doesn’t do that.
- - Ibid.
But even his treatment of the “good” mythicists (which comprises maybe half the book) is weak to the point of useless. This would be (principally) myself, Robert Price, Earl Doherty, G.A. Wells, Thomas Thompson, and (perhaps) Frank Zindler.
. . . do you think it will ever be unraveled? Or that it matters?
Matt 10:32 Everyone therefore who confesses me before men, him I will also confess before my Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies me before men, him I will also deny before my Father who is in heaven.
I think it depends on what this is. Is it someone watching you, as in judging you, where you are always imagining someone is looking over your shoulder who you need to somehow keep happy? If that is what it is, then I would say it is just part of your psychological makeup and may not be especially helpful and is really more of a barrier to God than a connection.
"Does the hidden man, that I've felt with me for much of my life, somehow validate a doctrine, a story, a religion, or does that hidden man exist in some way completely apart from the stories, even if the stories are complete bumpkis ?"
Originally posted by Starchild23
So you're saying that despite numerous protests that Jesus never claimed to be God, they will in fact unite in the end times?
17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
24) Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25) Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30) I and my Father are one.