Why do you like or hate pitbulls?

Originally posted by biggmoneyme
pitbull make horrible gaurd dogs. maybe an alarm dog but not a gaurd dog. a stranger can go up to a pitbull and pet him..

I beg to differ, for one there is the intimidation factor to consider. When someone comes to my door (I have ornate glass in my front door) and they see a 140lb big black dog that on his hind legs probably stands about 5 foot, yeah, not going to stick your hand in the door. Not to mention the sound of their barking, it's ferocious and kind of scary even for me lol.

Like I said in my post above, they are very territorial, encounter them with their owner out and about, sure friendly enough. Step into their territory uninvited, it's a crap shoot. In the case of my dogs, you would probably have to shoot them to stop 'em, I hear gunshots inside my house....you have a much bigger problem then the dogs

reply to post by JeffreyCH


At that size, it is not a "pure" pit. Of course, "pit bull" is used to describe pretty much any muscular and blocky dog. The only breed which actually even has "pit bull" in the breed name is the APBT (American Pit Bull Terrier), which is not an officially recognized AKC breed. Ironically, I do believe it is accepted as a standard in the UKC. Unless something has changed within that area, I have personally always been more interested in genetics than arbitrary breed standards anyway.

Also note, that unless your dog/s is tested in a situation, do not depend on them for protection. Most are surprised to find their dog run away when faced with an immediate life-threatening situation, since the dog always acted as if it would stand ground. 99% dont, period. It sounds like you have it handled anyway though



jigger, I wasnt initially going to post, but I do enjoy your posts, you old codger I have posted about this before, but it is a topic that I find rather important. I always feel like I need to educate a bit on this topic as well, since I find it really quite interesting.

I have worked extensively with dogs, in many contexts. The "pit bulls" (frequently adhering to the american staffordshire standard) I have dealt with consistently impressed me. The situations many came out of was atrocious, but it was the only breed to consistently rebound within a few days time. I have never put a "pit bull" down for aggression, the same can not be said for almost every other breed out there. The most consistently aggressive? Lab/heeler mixes.. This is from a sample pool of literally thousands of dogs.

Anyway, the issue with it is threefold, at its most basic. The first is ignorance of proper breeding practices, the second is popularity, and the third is ignorance of the owners. This set of circumstances has led to many specific breeds being demonized through the years, though the "pit bull" has been around a while, and is the most popular. Many get the bully breed type ("pit bulls" specifically) to be tough, protection, etc. However, it is specifically a breed which originated to have zero human aggression, but be game for dog fights. There is a huge difference between human aggression (HA) and dog aggression (DA). The handlers would have to be able to take their dog off of the other dog without redirection. In this time as well (around the time of breed origination), most of these fights were not necessarily to the death. These dogs would then literally go home to their family, and sleep in beds with the people. Quite a different picture than what we see painted now, eh?

But the issue is that the media-perpetuated bias actually has a ring of truth to it.. What happens when you no longer use standards, and breed for something which was actually culled earlier on in the standard? And what happens when, on top of that, you want a dog to do something which it was never "designed" for? Huge imbalances in the resultant offspring.

The perception of any one specific breed being the issue is completely ignorant of the machinations of the overall picture of the "canine." In fact, in doing so, it will directly attract the type of human who will abuse the loyalty of a dog. This has happened with several other breeds, such as the dobermann, rottie, GSD, etc. Its a self-fulfilling prophecy, regardless of breed.

Interestingly, the "pit bull" is completely dominant in terms of performance. Meaning, that out of the current "super dogs" (google it), the vast majority are pit bull-type dogs. Maybe they have an advantage since it is a blanket term for at least three standards, being the American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, and Staffordshire Bull Terrier (NOT a Bull Terrier, mind you). They also test higher in official temperament tests than the vast majority of breeds. The most decorated war canine was also a "pit bull."

Why do I like them? Because I like dogs. But it goes beyond that, its an incredible breed. Their bravery, determination, and loyalty are top tier. Like many things though, that is a double edged sword. Meaning, if you meet an aggressive "pit bull," take a very close look at the people around them.

Ok, I know, long post. It shouldnt be a surprise at this point... And petrus, you must think very lowly of me as one of my dogs is a rottie/amstaff mix

P.S. An interesting bit of info is that ALL breeds past and present are actually derived from the information contained within the gene of Canis Lupus. Meaning, that even the little chihuahua is a direct manifestation of the same gene contained within the wolf. This is slightly different than simply "dogs came from wolves." The connection is much, much deeper. This also would imply that the further one gets away from the "original" standard, the more the gene is disrupted. This can be seen partially in the proportional drop-off in average hearing ability and dogs under roughly 20 lbs, with the deficiency increasing as the size decreases.

edit: Also interesting, though again, slightly OT, is that the "war dogs of ole" would go to war with their owners, and then proceed to be family dogs at home. In this respect, they are very much like humans in that they are fully capable of choosing where to direct aggression. The specific breed type I am alluding to in this scenario is referred to as the Molosser, which is not technically a breed type that still exists. Though, its attributes can be seen in many, many breeds ranging from the "pit bull," to the mastiff (closest to the original molosser standards), to the golden retriever.

reply to post by petrus4

while a potential mass extinction event is currently ongoing, a species family as thoroughly unworthy and undeserving as the canines may well be one of the few to survive, purely because of their degree of human domestication.

Dogs helped humans evolve, you should learn to appreciate them. Dogs allowed us to settle down and create civilizations. They are also quite intelligent.





Not to mention, dogs help a LOT of people in this day and age. For you to call them unworthy is actually an insult to the people that need them.

The seeing eye dog



Search and rescue dog



Dogs in the military, saving lives



Police dogs



Dogs that can smell cancer



Dogs helped people on 9/11



Dogs can smell parasites that spread disease



Hunting



Sledding



Guard Dogs



Plus a million other jobs...

i adopted my first pitbull this year. we were looking for a friend for our german shepard . we went to every scpa for a 100 miles looking at all the breeds.every dog we looked at would jump up on my kids and scare them, as we were driving in the country we found a place called fbr in fresno. i had bever been around any pitbulls before and thought they were an eveil breed so to speak. but beeing courious and a dog lover i decided to go have a look. we took a few out into the play area with the kids and once again they jumped all over the kids. then there was a blue nose pit that my wife wanted to see and when he came running up the kids freaked out and turned their backs on him. to my suprise he stopped dead in his tracks looking confused as to why they were scared. he sat there motion less until the kids turned around to face him then he lowered his head as if in shame slowly walked up to them and layed at my daughters feet on his back submitting to her and the other 2 kids right away i knew at that point that was the dog for us. it has been a year now that we have had him and i have never seen him be agresive with our other dog or the 3 cats or anybody at all . he is the most mellow dog i have ever had.

Originally posted by jiggerj
Walking home from work today I passed by five people with pitbulls. No cuddly cockerspaniels. No well-behaved beagles. No setters, no collies. Just pitbulls.

Are they prevalent in just my area?
Is this a sign of the times where everyone feels a need to have a ferocious looking animal?

Why do you like or hate pitbulls?

One thing's for sure, you can't call em' cute.

P.S. I believe this to be a social issue. So, if the moderators try to move it they'll first have to get past my leetle friends above. RUFF!

edit on 5/7/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

There are no pit bulls pictured above.

Can you identify a pitbul? I dare you to give it a go, bet you can't.
www.pickthepit.com...

reply to post by RealSpoke


Not only did I enjoy some of those videos, but my own dog (aforementioned pit X) directly saved my life. May not be worth much to some, but I am indebted to him.. Certainly not afraid to put his life on the line for me.. Not a story I wish to re-tell, bluntly.

I would encourage you though, that while your attempts at education are great, that with things like eye-rolling almost trivialize the value of the information. Obviously, petrus is speaking on something which he doesnt know, but that doesnt preclude a lack of condescension. Maybe thats just me though..


Calstorm, I was thinking about posting a similar link. Most people have no idea what they are looking at, breed-wise. Honestly, even most "experts" in the general field have no idea what they are doing in every arena from breed identification to behavior. I always say that most dog trainers I have met/seen are really quite lucky that dogs are as intelligent as they are.

It's funny that 99% of the pictures in here claiming to be of pit bulls, aren't even real pitbulls.....

Those are hybrids mixed with bulldogs or other breeds!!

The only REAL one is called the American Pit Bull Terrier.

(it's funny, @pickthepit.com the actual pit bull is identical to mine, same color and everything hahaha!)

reply to post by porschedrifter


Welll.. One could argue very strongly, one might say unquestionably, that the true "pit bull" is in fact the American Staffordshire Terrier. The APBT is not, as far as I know (like I said, it might have changed), even a recognized breed standard by the major player in that field, the AKC. Though as a generalization, they tend to be lankier than their "brethren," as they were more bred as a working/farm dog.

Another thug scumbag pit bull owner here. My pitbull and I cruise around in a porsche twin turbo and live on the oceanfront. WHY, did I choose to have a dog like this? Here is why. I knew all the media sensationalism out there about them was just that, mostly hype to draw in viewers. I wanted to save a life and to change minds and educate people about the TRUE nature of the pit bull terrier. Do you know that most "pit bull" attacks arent pit bulls at all? Everything is a pit bull to the media and many uneducated out there. So lets say it was a pit bull attack. and we know people will tune in for the horror that is these beasts, ie ratings!! Pit bulls are the most abused breed of dog on the planet. By the scumbag thug dog fighters who train, drug, beat, starve and teach aggression. Oh thats right, family dog mauls baby. Thats the end of that report. Family dog that was chained , beaten, starved and generally very abused. Sadly, pit bulls are the IT dog for many irresponaible idiots to own today. Years ago it was the Bloodhound, the GS, Dobie, and the Rottie who were demonized as the devil dogs.

I rescued my pit bull from a high kill shelter at 8 weeks. No, i had never had one before. His 9 month old mother was dumped there with 9 babies to die. I have had dogs my entire life. German Shepherds, Golden Retrievers, cocker spaniel, labs and NONE of these dogs can touch my pit bull for the love he gives, his loyalty, intelligence, gentleness, althlectic ability and pure comedy. Oh, and he is gorgeous! He is best friends and plays tug of war with my large macaw. Loves every dog and person he meets. Anyone, and i mean anyone can walk into my house and they will be greeted with lots of tail wags and happiness..I am so tired of all the misinformation and propaganda that plenty of you posting here so readily lap up and spew. Pit bulls are one of the best dogs to raise with children. They used to be known as nanny dogs until their reputations were ruined by the media bs, ignorant people parroting the media and so on. here are millions of pit bulls in the US. If they were such evil killers I would imagine that there would be millions of dead people every day. Use your heads and quit buying into the media bias propaganda machine. I thought at least people on ATS would know better than that.
My pit bull is the most amazing and by far the most intelligent and loving dog I have ever known. I will never have another breed of dog after knowing and loving him. .Now if you will excuse me my pit bull wants to go play some ball.

reply to post by sinohptik


It's just disgusting to me when humans have no respect for other lifeforms. We are animals ourselves, how can one be so elitist? Especially to species that help humans so much. Everyone knows of seeing eye dogs, police dogs, and the most common working types. I can say that his post deeply offended me but I removed the eye rolling because you made a good point.

reply to post by RealSpoke


I understand. The things I have seen in the work I have done with dogs.. Has led me to believe that humans are a far more violent and unpredictable animal than canines, much less a specific breed. Many of the things still haunt me to this day, and.. very deeply. Regardless of my personal beliefs of "letting go." Thank you for taking that post in the spirit it was meant That is highly commendable.

reply to post by sinohptik


Pit bull is an American pit bull. that dudes "pit" is 100% real. It aint got an ounce of FAKE pit bull in it. FAKE being those things the brits call pit bulls. American staffordshire terrier. A pit bull terrier is a mix of the two breeds. American Pit Bull is a CKC breed not capable of having the tag of AKC. An American Staffordshire Terrier however can have the distinction of being an AKC Breed. YOU have no clue what a pit bull is. A pit bull with a little gator in it will tear a staffy up. The akc mix of the two breeds would be your American Bull Mastiff. CKC, will not accept this breed. You wanna talk dogs, I make 150k+ a year off of them. Not all pits but I make a # load. And I have been making 50k+ a year since I was 14 breeding dogs and keeping the money. Before that I took care of dozens of dogs as mine being the rightful owner. Only seeing about $500 a year. I was paying for the dog food pretty much until I was 14. At 15 I got kicked out and having anything I consider of value that I could possibly want within reason. I win more money than I make now that I am 21 and learned to count cards. Then learned that shuffle tracking by counting two decks in a six deck game is easier than counting the whole deck and it would give me cover by completely ignoring the rest of the deck or leaving and coming back to finish the tracking. Gives me cover. And I can bet off the top of the deck and have common everyday normal betting scheme. That like a stupid floppy, ahh I just bet 1 2 3 3 2 1 1 2 3 3 2 1 1 2 3 3 2 1. An uncommon but obvious fail on the betting way but if I bet twice the minimum and 9 times the max after I have tracked. Ahhhh truck it no one would believe what exhibit caa beyond counting could do. I mean it aint reall worth 2.5k is it.

Wow that makes so much sense. Ignore the blackjack stuff. Does this site have advanced strategy information censorship?

reply to post by ringlejames


Pretty sure you are misconstruing what I said..

Never said anything about real or fake. Its a moot point anyway as "pit bull" is a blanket term and specifically not a breed.

You can think I dont know what Im talking about, but thats on you It seems you have an axe to grind, and I am not interested in being the whetstone.

All the best.

Originally posted by sinohptik
reply to post by JeffreyCH

 

At that size, it is not a "pure" pit. Of course, "pit bull" is used to describe pretty much any muscular and blocky dog. The only breed which actually even has "pit bull" in the breed name is the APBT (American Pit Bull Terrier), which is not an officially recognized AKC breed. Ironically, I do believe it is accepted as a standard in the UKC. Unless something has changed within that area, I have personally always been more interested in genetics than arbitrary breed standards anyway.

Also note, that unless your dog/s is tested in a situation, do not depend on them for protection. Most are surprised to find their dog run away when faced with an immediate life-threatening situation, since the dog always acted as if it would stand ground. 99% dont, period. It sounds like you have it handled anyway though

Thank you for your very informed response. I'm in no way a dog expert, I had my doubts about my girl being any kind of "pure" pit bull when I got her. I was thinking more along the lines of pit/lab or healer mix. I kind of thought that because she is a hell of a swimmer, I've watched her go for over an hour without rest, and has very webbed feet, also points at small game? I did look up pictures of blue nose pits and found some that looked exactly like my dogs. I've had a few people remark on her being a blue nose or small head pit....I dunno. Supposed to be bred to be very aggressive, again just hear say. I do know my boys father was a "pure bred" pit (white with brindle patches) still questionable. I do know my boy is way bigger then either the mother or father, and has momma's marking(black n white tuxedo) .

I have no doubt at all that my girl would stand her ground, she has bitten a friend of mine, we were slap boxing/messing around and she attacked (nipped him hard on the butt, hence the reason I muzzle her) I would be very interested to know more about these dogs, or any links you might have to research the genetics of them? Like are some of the sub-breeds more/less aggressive towards people? When talking pit bulls it is very muddy waters when it comes to "dog experts" simply because they are not a 'recognized' breed, a lot of dis info, rumors, ect. Kind of makes me wonder why they are not considered a breed since they are so popular?

reply to post by sinohptik


AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER IS AN CKC BREED. I HAVE PAPERS FOR MINE. I COULD TAKE A QUICK PICTURE OF IT GROWLING WITH ME GIVING YOU THE MIDDLE FINGER. nOT REALLY SHE WOULD JUST LOOK AT THE CAMERA AND SMILE BUT i HAVE PAPERS ON MY DOG. PIT BULL BITCH.

reply to post by JeffreyCH


Well, there are breed standards, some of them have been mentioned. The issue is that "pit bull" is used extensively to refer to dogs that are stocky/muscular. Everything from American Bulldogs to Mastiffs tend to get lumped in. The genetics and breed history differ greatly amongst them too.

Ill get you some links tomorrow Gotta go for now. We can continue the discussion through U2U as well (since you have 20+ posts) as it starts to veer off topic. This has been a personal area of deep study for well over 15 years now. Though I must admit to being partial to Mollosers, and their closest relatives.

Dogs: The Bright Side of Eugenics

reply to post by ringlejames


That's great man, are you done yet?

Like I said, I really dont care about arbitrary breed standards, I care more about the genetic standards. If you dont understand the difference (I understand I do not always speak clearly), feel free to send a U2U. Going.. quite far off topic on semantics.

I like discussion, not arguments. Feel free to think of me what you will.

Of course you can call them cute. Pitbulls are amazing creatures and often adorable. Your choice of pictures was unbelievably biased. Yes they get a bad rap, but what people don't understand is that pitbulls are among the most emotional breeds of dog. So that excessive emotion can go either way. If they're treated well and are shown love from the start (like mine was), they can be the most loving, harmless animals you've ever met. If they're abused, abandoned, just treated like #@it, then yeah, they can be damaged goods.

I have a pitbull/rottweiler mix, and she's the most submissive, harmless animal I've ever seen. Our other dog, a chihuahua mind you, who came along AFTER the pit, bosses the pit around constantly. One time a moth flew across the ceiling above our pit, and she got scared and went into the other room. We've never had a single "episode" with her behavior, ever. And I tease her a lot too.. I give her raspberries (vibrating lips) on her stomach, which she can't stand, but I never even feel the slightest bit afraid that she'll 'do anything' about it