Education & Military, can't we support both?

College education is such a tricky topic to discuss nowadays. On one side we are being told that you NEED a college education to have any real chance of living a comfortable life here in the United States, but on the other side you are hearing people state its a WASTE of money and a system thats being taken over by corporate greed.

As a current student (who is paying his own way through school), I do find the costs to be excessive, but I do feel that finishing my education is necessary. What bothers me today is that the Senate cant come to an agreement on whether the federal student loan interest rate (for a stafford loan) should stay put at 3.4% or be doubled this upcoming year.

I will admit that undergrad and grad school isnt for everyone, so before you take out these huge loans do have a plan in mind for your future. No more useless majors!!! Everyone has a right to go to college, but it is their responsibility to burden the load. From day one, Ive accepted this truth, and what bothers me is that school is hardly affordable today unless you come from some family wealth, or your parents were wise enough to set u up with a college fund as a kid...

Anyways, I would like to see the Senate come to an agreement, I would like to see both sides keep the current federal student loan rate at the same spot. To do so it would cost the federal government roughly $6 billion. How hard would it be to find $6 billion in the national budget to cover these expenses? Couldnt they tap into that exorbitant military budget, thats nearing $1 trillion? Or how about taking a little out of the "black" budget fund thats in excess of $50 billion (in 2009, im assuming its more now)... The point I'm getting at is that the country is trying to sell us young adults about the american dream, one that NEEDS a college education today, but to get there you need climb into massive debt, which hardly seems like a dream... I just wish they would put more effort and thought into the people here who are trying to better themselves.

So thats how I feel on this subject, i guess i kinda took it down the rant-road...

Have a nice day ATS!!!

www.huffingtonpost.com...

1) We absolutely need to cut military spending.
2) We need to cut and eventually eliminate all entitlement spending including student loans. One of the main reasons education is so expensive is because of governmental interference in the educational market place.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
1) We absolutely need to cut military spending.
2) We need to cut and eventually eliminate all entitlement spending including student loans. One of the main reasons education is so expensive is because of governmental interference in the educational market place.

Yea, when you begin to break down the costs a student pays to go to school its beyond nuts, especially if you choose a private university... You are easily paying anywhere from $1000-2000 per credit hour...

The root of the problem is that you should not need to take out a loan to go to college.

I think one of the main culprits is the college sports racket. The universities are building these huge sports complexes and giving "gifts" to student athletes. All this stuff costs tons of money.

It all comes down to MONEY. The banks, schools, and politicians line their pockets and the students are saddled with debt for the rest of their lives.

My mom was able to get a bachelors degree in business management by working part time as a bar tender.
Why can't people do this anymore? Bankers, fractional reserve banking, and inflation.

Originally posted by jhn7537

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
1) We absolutely need to cut military spending.
2) We need to cut and eventually eliminate all entitlement spending including student loans. One of the main reasons education is so expensive is because of governmental interference in the educational market place.

Yea, when you begin to break down the costs a student pays to go to school its beyond nuts, especially if you choose a private university... You are easily paying anywhere from $1000-2000 per credit hour...

Absolutely. You end up with a loan equal in cost to a mortgage, but no home to justify the cost. It is insane.

Originally posted by watchitburn
The root of the problem is that you should not need to take out a loan to go to college.

I think one of the main culprits is the college sports racket. The universities are building these huge sports complexes and giving "gifts" to student athletes. All this stuff costs tons of money.

It all comes down to MONEY. The banks, schools, and politicians line their pockets and the students are saddled with debt for the rest of their lives.

My mom was able to get a bachelors degree in business management by working part time as a bar tender.
Why can't people do this anymore? Bankers, fractional reserve banking, and inflation.

What's crazy is that D-I Football and Basketball teams bring in over $6 billion a year to their universities, I honestly doubt that they're strapped for cash... Its almost like colusion between the colleges/universities or price fixing.. Could you imagine if BP/Shell/Exxon all decided that they were going to sell gas here in the states for $10 a gallon, how people/govt would react?? But when colleges decide that an education should cost $50k per year, its A-OK...

Originally posted by watchitburn
The root of the problem is that you should not need to take out a loan to go to college.

I think one of the main culprits is the college sports racket. The universities are building these huge sports complexes and giving "gifts" to student athletes. All this stuff costs tons of money.

It all comes down to MONEY. The banks, schools, and politicians line their pockets and the students are saddled with debt for the rest of their lives.

My mom was able to get a bachelors degree in business management by working part time as a bar tender.
Why can't people do this anymore? Bankers, fractional reserve banking, and inflation.

Right now I work during the day, and take all my classes at night... By working Im reducing the amount of loans I need to take out which is nice... I agree that all students SHOULD do this, but I guess its hard to get a 19 year old motivated to do anything but party on campus... I'm 27, I dont live on campus, so I dont have any of those distractions. I just work my 8-5 job and have class from 6-10 at night... long days, but worth it..

reply to post by jhn7537

Absolutely.

Here is a guy who knows what he is talking about. I've been watching his videos for years.


As to the gas situation you mentioned.
Everyone knows the oil companies make cash hand over fist. But also a big chunk of gas prices are State and Federal taxes. $0.67 a gallon here in California as of last year.
Source

Originally posted by jhn7537

Right now I work during the day, and take all my classes at night... By working Im reducing the amount of loans I need to take out which is nice... I agree that all students SHOULD do this, but I guess its hard to get a 19 year old motivated to do anything but party on campus... I'm 27, I dont live on campus, so I dont have any of those distractions. I just work my 8-5 job and have class from 6-10 at night... long days, but worth it..

You are absolutely right. College costs are outrageous.

The only reason I managed to go was I had scholarships and I worked full-time all the way through college and grad school. Exhausting, but now that I'm through the "gauntlet" well worth it.

I remember thinking at the time that the only people who could afford college were the wealthy and those who qualified for the "freebie" scholarships. Since I was solidly middle class and had worked since I turned 16, I didn't qualify for the special loans and whatnot. Infuriating. I'd saved my entire life for college and the only "help" I got was through scholarships, whereas some of the people I knew didn't save a penny and got a cheaper ride.

I guess, in the end, I came out ahead with a stronger work ethic. You've got one, too. It will serve you well in your future.

Good luck to you!

reply to post by jhn7537

Education & Military, can't we support both?

Two points...

1. Education and defense have become so politically polarized, chances of any meeting place on a common ground that supports both, is about as likely as winning a lottery. Yes, someone will eventually take it but aside from thinking about millions of dollars and reading about it, the rest of us realize nothing.

2. The 'great middle class' that supported the nation with revenue through moderate taxation from the end of WW2 to roughly 2000, is gone. The jobs that supported that mystical class of Americans, now lives in red China. So, there is no real hope to revisit those days of plenty unless, or until, we rebuild our industrial plant. Today, we are left with but a burned out shell of what once was while politicians all point fingers at one another.

In the end... Washington will choose defense over education every time.

reply to post by watchitburn


What really irritates me is why our military budget is so high... Does our military really need all the "toys" they have or is their procurement dept. just sh*tty at sourcing military hardware??? How is it that the United States 'known' military budget is higher than the next top 22 nations all added together??? To give you an idea thats, China, Russia, France, UK, Japan, Saudi Arabia, India, Germany, Italy, Brazil, South Korea, Canada, Australia, Spain, United Arab Emirates, Turkey, Israel, Netherlands, Greece, Columbia, Taiwan, and Poland... SMH... Imagine all the problems we could fix if we reduced the miltary budget??? It seems that our country is super-paranoid knowing that they need to spend this much money on defense to feel safe...

What's wrong with joining the military to get an education? Veterans also get a hiring preference for government jobs.

Originally posted by tamusan
What's wrong with joining the military to get an education? Veterans also get a hiring preference for government jobs.

You join, you go to war, you come home, you get a free education, you try to live with PTSD.... No thanks...

reply to post by jhn7537


I did join, and I retired. I went to more than one war. I have more than 1 degree that the government paid for.

I also own more than one small business, and I toss non-veteran resumes right into the trash.

Yes, we can support education and military.

USA does so right now. If you serve three years in the military, you get a free college fund.

Simple solution - national service for all 18-21 year olds, followed by free college for all.

Originally posted by tamusan
reply to post by jhn7537

 

I did join, and I retired. I went to more than one war. I have more than 1 degree that the government paid for.

I also own more than one small business, and I toss non-veteran resumes right into the trash.

Very nice, I'm happy to here that you made it to hell and back... Success stories of war veterans are always a breath of fresh air... Just knowing my personality, I'm not sure Id be able to handle the stresses of war, but honestly, who really knows until you get tossed into action... Is there a reason why you dont give non-veterans time of day?

reply to post by jhn7537


Yes, of course you can support both, but not in the current economic climate. Without actually cutting National Defense and Military spending, you can't say with a straight face that your leaders are focusing on it's domestic issues.

All the money is being put into defense, instead of programs that assist the nation.

~Tenth

reply to post by jhn7537


There are 2 reasons why I only hire veterans. The first reason is that we take care of each other. The second reason stems from early childhood memories of my father returning from the Vietnam war.

I support your desire not to be in the military. I joined with the belief that I was preserving the freedom of choice for all Americans.

Free college for nothing. No, I can't go for that. I will concede that military service should not be mandatory, or the only way to a free education. Free education should be a reward for any person performs any substantial community service.

The biggest mistake our govt is making is the massive cuts made to our military.

You people just don't understand how the economy works. And you don't understand why our economy has been so strong in years past.

Investment in our military has garnered us untold and uncountable riches in technology. Our military leads the Nation in social engineering. Our military is the most successful ladder system ever created by any nation.
Simply put, our military is the bedrock of our society, culture, politics, and national strength.

I could truly go on and on about why our military is so great, and why it is the reason we are a great nation. But, it would fall on deaf ears.
Not enough ppl serve in this great institution to really have any idea of what I speak of.

Our country was built on, and will remain, the #1 Nation in the world on ONE THING ALONE. Hard work and ingenuity.
How many college grads have worked a hard day in their life? Outside the ones that have served.
How many know of any true sacrifice/service?

Just stop it with the whiney "STOP FUNDING OUR MILITARY" threads. You truly truly have no idea what you are asking for. The consequences of an under funded military are too great to deal with.
This world is not as peachy as you think. I've been all over the world multiple times, and for long durations. Not a single culture in this world is capable of keeping the world together like what has been accomplished. It has not been done in all the history of mankind.

Military spending can be curbed. There is waste in the system. But the true waste is done in the name of "free hand outs" to those that choose not to serve, choose not to work, choose not to be creative. These hand outs are given to the rich and poor alike. The recent exploits into Iraq and Afghanistan were not wise, and buckled our tax system. But, that is not the fault of the military. The military does the job no other nations military could ever fathom. Not becuase of funding. Because of a supreme culture. Again. If you haven't served in the Marine Corps, Navy, Army, or Air Force, you have no idea what I speak of. And that's just too bad for all of us!

Stop the stupid wars. Stop the stupid welfare expeditures. Continue to fund the military to be a strong organization. And all will be just fine and dandy.

Destroy the military, and destroy your culture.

Obama would like to destroy the military. So, you can imply how I feel about him.

RP!

reply to post by Fing3rm4n


I'm not saying that we should cut the military budget completely, I just feel that they could probably find areas that dont need as much funding... Does the US Military really need to spend $700 billion? Would we be in danger if their budget was $600-650 billion? And my intentions werent to make this a 'bash the military budget' thread, but the area that i do beleive deserves the govt assistance is with student federal loans, and to keep the interest rate at 3.4% the US will likely need to commit $6 billion to cover that....