Neo-Nazis elected in the new Greek parliament

reply to post by CodyOutlaw


Yup those too have done a lot of damage

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
Wait, why isn't anyone worrying about the communists?
Because Stalin was such a cuddly kitten and the bolsheviks never murdered anyone?

Oh im worried about them too.

Either of the extremes, far left or far right are a danger. If you would notice up top however, this post is discussing specifically the neo-nazi government members elected. Hence the focus.

reply to post by Cayla19


Excuse me but do you live in Greece? I have witnessed my neighborhood being vandalized and altered to the point that I don't recognize anything. Every shop has turned into a call-center.The school I attended and have so many beautiful memories from, smells of urine and I keep seeing foreign people dealing drugs or pimping their poor women for money right in front of it. Do you know what it feels like? It's like being raped. You are more than welcome to visit me and see the situation with your own eyes. To see something on TV is not the same as seeing it with your own eyes.And yeah, crime rate has gone A LOT higher since we had this massive wave of illegal immigrants. We do not DARE go downtown to the CENTER of our own city because there are thousands of people carrying MACHETES, dealing DRUGS and pimping their own sisters.PLEASE.Visit Athens just ONCE and for one day.Then come back and tell us. Forgive me if I sounded rude, not my intention but I can't believe what I read sometimes,It's so unfair and not in touch with reality.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
Wait, why isn't anyone worrying about the communists?
Because Stalin was such a cuddly kitten and the bolsheviks never murdered anyone?

Oh im worried about them too.

Either of the extremes, far left or far right are a danger. If you would notice up top however, this post is discussing specifically the neo-nazi government members elected. Hence the focus.

edit on 8-5-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

Yes, I do realize that this is a thread about nationalists. I may have been remiss - let me rephrase myself?

Why did the OP find it necessary to start an outraged, terrified thread about a paltry amount of nationalist seats in the Greek parliament, but seemed completely unconcerned by the much larger percent of far left seats?

I can only assume, as I pointed out, that she finds Stalin to be a cuddly kitty and thinks that the bolsheviks never murdered whole swathes of people.

Originally posted by Vaski
On another point

Here is their policies.. I hear these same views from Americans on ATS everyday...

I dont see any other party with the same ideals who are advocating forcing immigrants into work camps and planting landmines along the border :/

"When asked what his first action in parliament would be, Mihaloliakos said: 'All the illegal immigration out! Out of my country, out of my home!'

Asked how he planned to carry that out, he angrily said: 'Use your imagination'.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

""
""Golden Dawn describes itself as a "People's Nationalist Movement" and "uncompromising Nationalists."[5] Michaloliakos described Golden Dawn as opposing the "so-called Enlightenment" and the Industrial Revolution. The charter also puts the leader in total control of the party, and formalizes the use of the Roman salute for party members.[2]"" - wiki


So they advocate dictatorial leadership, they reject reason, reject industry/productivity, and want to play roman.....sure sounds like a party I'd want in my backyard.:/

I dont have to use my imagination...allI I have to do is look at my family tree and into the history books to see the end result of this one eyed racist ideology.


Ro.

Originally posted by JustEve
reply to post by Rosha

 

Wow that would be great if only our government as well as the others of the past actually CARED enough to implement such a measure that would protect both sides. Illegal immigrants do pretty much what they want my friend and nobody does anything about it. It's the sad truth which I have to face every single day.

In the sense Im involved in my own struggles..I hear you and empathise..but I genuinely dont think the situation warrants racially motivated murder, mass internment and state sanctioned abuses..much less minefields atthe border and like paranoia - which is exactly what will happen if these creeps take power or are able to assert themselves within a coalition gov. If the situation is this bad..if you feel you're being invaded, then Greece should simply declare war on Turkey and be done with it....not this backdoor dealing.

Consider the uses of adversity...thats all I am saying really...because you can bet the assholes who want war, who want you to be blind to reason and choice, who want to turn every day Greeks into ignorant murderers and destroy Greecian humanity, are doing exactly that.

Ro

Originally posted by Rosha

Originally posted by JustEve
reply to post by Rosha

 

Wow that would be great if only our government as well as the others of the past actually CARED enough to implement such a measure that would protect both sides. Illegal immigrants do pretty much what they want my friend and nobody does anything about it. It's the sad truth which I have to face every single day.

In the sense Im involved in my own struggles..I hear you and empathise..but I genuinely dont think the situation warrants racially motivated murder, mass internment and state sanctioned abuses..muchless minefield paranoia....which is exactly what will happen if these creeps take power or are able to assert themselves within a coalition gov. If the situation does.then Greece should simply declare war on Turkey and be done with it.

Consier the better uses of adversity...thats all I am saying really...because you can bet the assholes who want war, who want to turn every day Greeks into levers for racist murder are doing exactly that.

Ro

Oh I'm very well aware of this. And trust me when I say that the Golden Yawn party will never assume absolute power in Greece. We have never been into extremists and besides, we suffered enough during Hitler's reign. The people want to get their point across by voting for them, that we are sick of feeling like foreigners in our own country. That is all. It will never happen and that I can guarantee.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw

Why did the OP find it necessary to start an outraged, terrified thread about a paltry amount of nationalist seats in the Greek parliament, but seemed completely unconcerned by the much larger percent of far left seats?

I started this thread because I am not politically igorant enough to assume no-one is backing this particular groups rise to power - that this reaction is not an engineered one. Im not naive enough to think this is where it ends...and just frustrated enough with peoples willful choice to deny accountability and stay political sheep that I am willing to stick my neck out and call a spade a spade.

If you truly believe that the only solution to social and policing problems in Greece is to elect radical political groups like GD, then as far as I am concerned you need your head read...and you will have chosen everything coming to you that this kind of a choice imbibes.

Play the tape to the end..this decision is just another nail in the coffin for political freedom and social justice and yes, the rise of an openly nazist party is to those of us who have lost before, a rightly terrifying thought. We have learnt from history...we do know the end of the tape..and are unwilling to sit idle and afford Greecians the same luxury of denial the German people used as a get out of accountability free card many moons ago.

Ro

Originally posted by JustEve

Oh I'm very well aware of this.

And trust me when I say that the Golden Yawn party will never assume absolute power in Greece. We have never been into extremists and besides, we suffered enough during Hitler's reign. The people want to get their point across by voting for them, that we are sick of feeling like foreigners in our own country. That is all. It will never happen and that I can guarantee.

edit on 8/5/2012 by JustEve because: darned typos..... :/

Sorry but you cannot guarantee this. You are not the ones in control TO be able to guarantee it.

I again have to look at predecent....as you seem to think all of this ( whats happening now) is a *conscious* choice you are all making..when it actualy isn't. This as much as anything else is an engineered reality you are buying blindly into..(imo) and so as much as I might be willing to trust you..I simply cannot trust 'it'.

In the immigration and finance issues you are facing..Greece is having what ammounts to an allergic reaction.

Having an allergic reaction, is not in itself an abnomal thing, in fact its very human thing. What is abnormal...is ignoring reason and thinking the actions you take while you're 'in it' are even choices at all...when they arent...they are simply unconcious or at least, desperation based reactions.

Anyone who has violent allergies would know..that while your having one..all you can do is scratch...the entire world could turn bright purple or blow up right beside you but in that moment there is only the itch...and the desperation of the need to relieve it. This is where Greece is now (imo)

If you dont have any allergies..then think of sneezing....its much the same thing...as its a humanly uncontrolable irreversable perscribed/known response to itchy snot.....it happens...its not a weakness its a humaness.

However, eventually, with time or with help, the peak of allergic intensity passes, the desperation eases, the itch is relieved or soothed or simply goes away..the moment of chaos passes..you regain full use of your mental faculties and control over your own body returns....the dignity stripped from you in the overhwleming need to scratch like a crazy person comes back. The world around you returns to focus again...rather, the dimension you lept into to deal with the insatiable need to itch, closes and you become part of the world again.

Its THEN and only then, that actual productive and useful, mindfull discussions can be had and actual choices and decisions are possible - not just about how to treat the symptoms more effectivly in future..but to begin looking at the underlying causes of the allergy itself and finding a permenant treatment or desensitivity process that enables you to live well in spite of it.

To continue the analogy a moment....

Making choices in reactive states is very dangerous as those who are around you, not affected in the slightest by your state, who are holding the Epi Pen you might need should the reaction increase in severity, arent necessarily going to be people who have your best interests at heart...in fact..you might even come to learn it was they who triggered your reaction by exposing you to the substance that causes it in the first place. You might come to see you've been played...and by reaction based decisions, are playing right into their greedy little hands.

In the well known Diocletian problem-reaction-solution tactic of the Elite...they cause the problem and they are the solution providers..not you...not 'the immigrants'.....so you might come to find too late that you are only important to the middle part of that discussion...and even then, only so long you remain useful and as it serves them to keep you placated.

So..looking towards the time when this current reaction passes - and it will - looking to the time when you do regain control over yourselves..how do you want it?

How do you want to 'wake up' to that day?

Do you want to be an nation of even more useful and compliant pawns of the Elite? Or a people who kept their heads during a crisis, used the wsidom of their experience and history, ones who stepped back toook a breath to deal with the immediate reality and knew a crisis isnt the time for permenantly scarring decision making?

Its really up to Greecians to decide...and if ..after the reaction is over..you all decide to THEN go nazi on the world..then thats one thing..at least then we will all know you have activly chosen it and we can define our personal and collective responses and actions accordingly. Until that day, all we can do is say DONT buy into the lie..dont hurt yourselves for their agenda...dont do anything 'in it' that you - and the lives out here in the world your unable to see clearly right now who stand with you - might come to regret when your not.

We are at a time in history when 'too many' people are 'too aware' of this little Elite driven dialectic...people's capacity to cope with the paradoxes they created is breaking down, human consciousness of what is really going on around them, is growing and the lie is becmiong more visable every day. More and more people are asking questions and demanding answers and accountability..more are saying HELL NO to the status quo.

In fear of loosing control or by their own agenda and planning, and just as it has been before..they need to distract us from this knowledge of what really is....or bury it by burying those who carry it.

Occupy et al and the very public display of the rising shift in the 'general' populations maturity level, this was their cue..this was what they were waiting for to act....and right on time..out come their big guns..fear and flight....its social, emotional and psychological torment combined with biochemistry they can count on to ' do their work' for them.

These are the tools they manipulate and utilise in order to create these 'allergic' reactions in their pre primed locations... and so they need only 'tap' a string to reduce otherwise sane reasoning loving people to basally instinctive reactive people.

In this way, they disarm them from the only physical weapons they have, reasoned thought and choice.... from their conscious actions.

This is how they do it...how they keep mankinds consciousnes pinned into immature states of fear or faith, this is how they 'manage' the flock......and they do it simply so they can continue to be the abusive parents they are..to say in control.

Ive never been so grateful to be an orphan in my life.




Rosha

So i guess everyone is okay now, no more Nazi Greece etc etc. I did enjoy how a handful of people managed to manipulate the global media and divert attention from the upcoming financial mine field about to hit Europe, UK and the US. People, try and stay focused as to whats about to go online in two odd months.

But its also very funny how a handful of people have managed to bring down or is about to bring down the E.U. and other high profiled institutions, or is that how we want you to think..?

reply to post by Sinny


Well, since you like attention (which means you are human and not a post bot) I'll take a sec to make you feel noticed.. late as I am.

I think anyone who has ever been frusterated over the slow, scattered mess of democratic systems has admired the swift action of totalitarian states, but you lost me at the jew remark.

However, a little thought would bring any sane, empathetic person to the conclusion that inaction is preferable to jack booted morons breaking down one's door at 4 a.m.

Once there, everyone becomes a "jew."

Few times on earth has there ever been a regime as thouroughly EVIL as the nazis and one can rationally admire the smoothness of their...ummm "beaurocracy," but should reasonably expect a few folks to spit in their face.

Their fashion sense was extraordinary, though, and what red blooded man doesn't think of a black leather thigh high clad chick in an SS hat once in a while?

I wasn't gonna say this,but the way the discussion is going you leave me no choise.

I VOTED FOR THEM.

The decision wasn't taken light-hearted,but after a long thought and research.
a)I decided that i wouldn't vote for any of the 5 parties that were in the parliament and are ALL responsible for the current situation.
b)I decided that i will not vote for the new political parties that were created 2 to 6 months before the elections and they were actually people who WERE in the parliament and left their parties and then had the nerve to go public and accuse their former parties for corruption(they forgot they were members of those parties).
c)I would not throw a white or an invalid vote,because according to a law,those votes go to the first political party and count as valid for them.

So it left me with a couple of dozen political parties.I read their proposals and their "manifestos" and to be honest most of them were a joke.
Golden Dawn has proposals that,at least in theory,will help the Greek people in their everyday proplems.

And to all of you that scream about the poor,poor illegal immigrants let me ask you how would you feel if you were afraid to walk in the center of the town you live and work,especially after dark?
How would you feel if an illegal immigrant had more "human rights" than you?Do you know that in Greece if a Greek citizent without health insurance go to a hospital,they ask him to pay,but they don't if he is an illegal immigrant?

As a side project i help homeless people and junkies anyway i can.You know what they tell me?
The homeless sleep with one eye open,because the illegals they steal and kill them for a jacket or a pair of shoes.
The immigrants who deal drugs they put in the drugs battery fluid .It makes the drug stronger but it kills the people who use them.
In the homeless centers the Greeks can't find a bed,because it's full of illegals.If you are a Greek you need a load of papers to be accepted,but not if you are an immigrant.
In the public kitchens for the poor and homeless,the Greeks never "get in time" and all the food has been consumed by the illegals.

This and a lot more is the reality we live in.

I know that political promises equal this:



but the "good" politicians that were in charge all those years,gave me no other choise.

Now all of you righteous people go on and call me a Nazi,a fascist or whatever you want.I don't care anymore.Putting labels to people,without living in their shoes is always easy.

Oh and if it takes a fascist regime to make this country livable again,i will take it.

Good Day

Why doesn't the meia make a bigger deal about this? I mean yeah they are talking about it a little, but they aren't making nearly the stink about it that they should. With France voting in a socialist, Greece with nazis, and Russia with Putin, I'd say we got real problems around the world right about now! This is scary stuff, why doesn't anyone care?

reply to post by Rosha


I had garnered all of this from your previous posts, but you still didn't answer the question I had actually asked:
What about the reds?
Or do you consider Stalin less of a murderer?
And if so, why in hell would you?
Is it because you are emotional on the subject of nationalism, but not emotional on the subject of communism?

reply to post by Phantom traveller


An eloquent and brave post.
I concur.

reply to post by Phantom traveller



Thank you for your openness and explaination. I do understand believe it or not, the pressures and paradoxes you're under and facing right now.

Being so close to it though, maybe what a perspective you cant see is that by voting them out of office..rather than making them stay and actualy DO their jobs - making them be accountable under a newly present and more watchful public eye - you just gave these criminals a free ticket out....

They've already commited the crimes and now..they are out scott free...they go away quite happy with no after affect no real lasting sanction..and a bank balance full of your cash.

And, instead of a devil you have outed and shamed, one who's tricks you can see and so not be blinded by ever again, one you know and so, could have taken authority over and commanded, you are stuck with an inchoherent unstable government full of highly charged groups all in opposition, all egoistically trying to take power and jostling for postion, all inexperienced and politically naieve..so..groups ripe for the pucking and for manipulation by those same forces that manipulated the old government.

You've put yourselves back on square one...and have given the Elite a new crop of fledglings to twist to their ends...groups that by their very political and social nature, are far more willing to go to the extremes that the old group, for all they did do..werent prepared to go to.


Do you see this at all?


Again..its just imo..ymmv

Ro

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
reply to post by Rosha

 

I had garnered all of this from your previous posts, but you still didn't answer the question I had actually asked:
What about the reds?
Or do you consider Stalin less of a murderer?
And if so, why in hell would you?
Is it because you are emotional on the subject of nationalism, but not emotional on the subject of communism?

Ahh sorry..I didnt realise you had directed that at me.

" Reds" " Nazis" " Capitalists" .....all just labels to describe the social camouflage of an elite criminal cabal thats been fleecing the modern world since at least the 1700's.. one and the same all being led and financed by the same masters as far as I am concenred.

That said...this thread is specifically refering to Nazi's being elected ...so what's your point?

If you want to start a thread about the Reds being elected..I'll come post

Btw...whats wrong with having emotions on a subject? I know I am mature enough to seperate wheat from chaff in regards to my emotional states and my intellectual opinions..most days. Are you implying I am not? Im not under any primal triggers or biological stressors or processes of endocrinal surging...Im just feeling strongly..which isnt 'bad' or a threat to my knowledge base or intellectual reasoning. In fact for me..it sharpens my focus.

If I were under those stressors..Id not be able to honestly say that..but then I am self censoring and honest by nature, and self montitoring so I dont tend to post on those days or on those subjects that do trigger me that way. I would also qualify a post made during a stressor time as being an 'affected' one..so..an unreliable one. This isnt a competition..this is about learning for me.

Besides..there is a word for those that can stand in the midst of horror emotionless, its called psychopathy...so Im quite happy to be emotional..and cerebral..and a plethora of other human things all concurrently...if only because I can. If its not for you..ok...no biggy.


Ro

reply to post by Rosha


Well, I do believe that psychopath as a diagnosis has been thrown out of DSM-IV. But if we are being colloquial, I'm happy to go with the label. It wouldn't be the first time.

Now, if I may, I'll try to rephrase my question again?

If, as you say, you believe all of these to be labels conjured up by a shadowy cabal, then they should all be equally frightening for you, right? Which then begs the question, if they are all equally frightening for you, why is it that you were moved to start a thread about the nationalists with far fewer seats than the communists? Which in turn makes me wonder if you really are able to separate your emotions from your analyses, therefore making a somewhat hypocritical stance against nationalists and not communists?

Originally posted by ohevyisrael
Why doesn't the meia make a bigger deal about this? I mean yeah they are talking about it a little, but they aren't making nearly the stink about it that they should. With France voting in a socialist, Greece with nazis, and Russia with Putin, I'd say we got real problems around the world right about now! This is scary stuff, why doesn't anyone care?

There were a great many reactions, but as you say not so much publically. The 30 Billion pulled out from Greece's economy was a message..of a fashion..a reminder that what is given can be taken away...several other little 'messages' of a simlar nature criss crossed the planet over the first 24hr period post announcements.

MSM wont report much even if the balloon goes up, unless it is propoganda.. as they still believe most people are not capeable of intelligently dissembling information without over reaction and panic..so they're still playing parentals ...and on the other hand, they are still ignoring your right to know..and your innate sentiences capacity to know, in order to preserve the tool of propoganda for when it suits them.

Its not that they dont care..its that they dont want you informed about what to care for yet. When they decide that for you..they will tell you. :/ This is how MSM and MSM propoganda works.


Ro

They received some seats, that's all.

It just goes to show that when voters actually pay attention to what's going on, they will replace incumbents with ANY elected official.

However, in the United States, over 80% of Congress and the Senate get elected every single time, despite Congress only having a 9% approval rating.

This last election in Greece simply goes to highlight the continued apathy of the average American voter.