Women at 9/11 trial should cover up out of respect for terrorists: non-Muslim lawyer who wore hijab

Originally posted by Dembow
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Scary stuff in them books.
But there's scary stuff in the Bible too.

All the more reason for everyone to keep their religion on a personal level.
Religion should be like rights: yours end when mine begin.

What is so scary about God warning His people that the moment that they tolerate aliens in their land AND ALLOW them to worship their 'gods' that the following WILL HAPPEN;
1. The children of His people will intermarry and lose their faith
2. That they will impact laws, beliefs and customs.

It was a warning for US. Last time I checked, the descendants of faithful Christians (and many self professed Christians for that matter) now are facing scenarios just as the OP has highlighted. We now have laws on the books guaranteeing that they have the POWER to change our society - the removal of God from every public institution is the utmost reason that these laws were 'created' in the first place. Someday maybe you'll see the time in which we live, and that you hold beliefs that others have given you. In the Bible that you THINK contains scary stories, what you'd actually find with the assistance of the Holy Spirit is the protection of His Faithful, and the way to overcome this world. "Tolerance" leads to a country's destruction by ruining its morality, and lack of morality spirals out of control, downward and downward. "Tolerance" also gives RIGHTS to minorities to oppress those who hold the majority. Many Muslims the world round are clambering for sharia law in the non Muslim lands in which they live. Guess what? The laws of discrimination are so cleverly designed that it will accommodate them. Pedophiles and psychiatrists are this close to reclassifying pedophilia from a mental illness to a sexual practice. How? Those cleverly designed laws of discrimination. That 'scary' Bible states that "There is nothing new under the sun", and that what has been WILL BE AGAIN. The writing is all over the walls, for all of us to see. And don't be fooled, for you do have a 'religion' of atheistic secular humanism which was given to you without you ever comprehending how it was ever done. And unfortunately, it was given to you by those who despise Christ Jesus, not by God Almighty who came to offer SALVATION.

Originally posted by Dembow
Scary stuff in them books.
But there's scary stuff in the Bible too.

True, but while Jesus preached peace, Muhammad preached Jihad.

In fact, Muhammad didn't just preach Jihad, he did it himself.

Muhammad

• Fought 8 major battles
• Led 18 raids
• Planned another 38 military operations where others were in command but operating under his orders and strategic direction.

HistoryNet

Battles were a significant affair

• At Kheibar in 628 C.E., the Muslim army was 2,000 combatants.
• When Muhammad mounted his assault on Mecca (630 C.E.) he did so with 10,000 men.
• And at the Battle of Hunayn a few months later the army numbered 12,000.

Source: Islamic Imperialism: A History by Karsh, E. (2007)

Jesus was a man of peace. Muhammad was a man of imperial domination.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Originally posted by Dembow
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Scary stuff in them books.
But there's scary stuff in the Bible too.

All the more reason for everyone to keep their religion on a personal level.
Religion should be like rights: yours end when mine begin.

What is so scary about God warning His people that the moment that they tolerate aliens in their land AND ALLOW them to worship their 'gods' that the following WILL HAPPEN;
1. The children of His people will intermarry and lose their faith
2. That they will impact laws, beliefs and customs.

It was a warning for US. Last time I checked, the descendants of faithful Christians (and many self professed Christians for that matter) now are facing scenarios just as the OP has highlighted. We now have laws on the books guaranteeing that they have the POWER to change our society - the removal of God from every public institution is the utmost reason that these laws were 'created' in the first place. Someday maybe you'll see the time in which we live, and that you hold beliefs that others have given you. In the Bible that you THINK contains scary stories, what you'd actually find with the assistance of the Holy Spirit is the protection of His Faithful, and the way to overcome this world. "Tolerance" leads to a country's destruction by ruining its morality, and lack of morality spirals out of control, downward and downward. "Tolerance" also gives RIGHTS to minorities to oppress those who hold the majority. Many Muslims the world round are clambering for sharia law in the non Muslim lands in which they live. Guess what? The laws of discrimination are so cleverly designed that it will accommodate them. Pedophiles and psychiatrists are this close to reclassifying pedophilia from a mental illness to a sexual practice. How? Those cleverly designed laws of discrimination. That 'scary' Bible states that "There is nothing new under the sun", and that what has been WILL BE AGAIN. The writing is all over the walls, for all of us to see. And don't be fooled, for you do have a 'religion' of atheistic secular humanism which was given to you without you ever comprehending how it was ever done. And unfortunately, it was given to you by those who despise Christ Jesus, not by God Almighty who came to offer SALVATION.

What? I read that twice and still struggled to grasp logic out of that whole post.

fighting religion with religion is dumb, its like fighting fire, with even more fire - Its just going to get worse.

The only way we can draw a line on tolerance of each others culture is by not letting religion get in the way. Religion needs to stay out of politics and law - The person should be tried only on the basis of the laws they broken in the which country they broke them, the persons religion should not be brought into context at all, ever -
And that goes for all religions.

Actually wearing a Hijab is not part of ISLAM at all it is an ARAB cultural thing - but then even most Muslims don't realise that, same as they arn't aware of a lot of the ridiculous crap that is in the Koran.

One of the main goals of Islamic terrorism and the constant threat of violence should they be offended by any perceived insult, is to intimidate and wear down the non-believers into gradually submitting to sharia law.

Kind of a similar tactic as the liberal left going into histrionics at any and every perceived PC infraction, racial slur, gay sleight or Christian privilege - no wander they are such bedfellows.

Originally posted by subject x
I think she's just laying groundwork for her case's future. She'll probably say her client couldn't focus on his defense, or was unduly stressed, or some such rot. She's just getting the hijab concept in the record early, so she can refer back to it later when she calls for a mistrial.

That is a really interesting thought Subject X... I bet you are not too far off from the truth.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Cheryl Bormann, 52, insisted other women in court also dress 'appropriately'

Damn stupid woman. If she wants to look like an idiot in the court room she's welcome to it. But to push other women to be imprisoned in those getups puts her in the same league as the muslim men in Iran who beat women for daring to wear sandals.

Maybe they should litter the courtroom with dead bodies and severed limbs of innocent victims to make these murderers feel more comfortable. That should take their minds off the rather average looking women in the courtroom.
It is nonsense like this that convinces me that this country has seen it's better days. Maybe one day we will wake up and come to our collective senses, but I doubt it.

This is a joke right....

There you go - the terrorists have won.

Nice going, you spineless bitch.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Jameela

 

Anyone who knows anything about me knows, I have no love for any wahabi, and the feeling is returned in kind... Eternal enemies are we.

You make an interesting point on that and one I've started looking into and learning about. I've gotten far enough in all that to clearly see you're right about the divisions within the Islamic followers and just how severe and serious those divisions actually are. People seem to consider the "Arabs" to be of a single West-Hating mind, when it appears things may be considerably more complex than that.

I wonder, has anyone ever taken a few moments to look at the prisoner list of Gitmo Bay and actually see about putting denomination and sect to each and stand back for what pattern, if any, might be apparent? I know the list of names went into the public domain a few years ago. Even USA Today carried that as I recall. Anyway, that could be a fascinating exercise if the outcome did show a pattern one direction or the other.


You also make a good point about being a at least a bit...gracious? Well, we don't have to gloat at the end, anyway. I'm not sure that's what I see here. I've actually been deliberate here about condeming the Attorney, not the accused.

If I were in Iran, Iraq or Saudi Arabia and on trial...(If I wasn't just beheaded upon capture in Saudi or Iraq, of course) I'd make every request and nutty demand I figured I could get away with. Why not when the people are going to find guilt, no matter what. If they don't? Heck... Listen to Obama and Holder about the trial in NYC when a reporter asked if Acquittal for KLM would be release? No...it sure wouldn't. So why not try and throw wrenches at every turn?

His attorney deserves the verbal abuse though. Part of her job is, literally, to control her Client. A Female defending a male Muslim was patently insane anyway. There must be a real story behind that one...but I guess when you're guilty before the trial ever starts, the lawyer being assigned might as well be a P.C. symbol at the same time. It's not like her skill will ever do more than mitigate how BAD it gets for her client.

I already know to what sects are the prisoners at gitmo belong, and yes you will find a very definite pattern. They are according to their own beliefs a people opposed to my sect. (a very PC way to put it) I follow what you call Shia Islam by the way.

My beliefs concerning most of them are that they are opposed to Islam itself. But I cannot say if they are innocent or guilty. Some there I have heard were innocent, and tortured.. their stories were horrifying. Just people, wrong place wrong time, falsely accused. Others I do not know if they were or not, or just bad men... 9/11 happened, but also I think the US government had a very large hand in it. Whether or not it was just allowed, or contrived by the US I do not know. And none of us will ever know I doubt. There are way too many questions on that to pin it on the arab men alone most definitely.

I am willing to paint the sect as something that opposes the truth that is Islam Any sect which seeks to 'purify' and 'cleanse' the religion has some serious issues, especially while their actions are anything but cleansing or purifying, and in most cases in opposition to the religion itself.

If they had been imprisoned in their own countries they would have male lawyers, I am sure a female lawyer was appointed them for a specific design. Everything they are doing now is grandstanding, they want people to know of the torture, and the more they grandstand the more will hear. Also I think their minds are gone, they underwent too much torture, and are crazed now. It is why, even if found innocent of all charges the US cannot allow them free. I believe everyone knows this.

Do I think some right should be afforded them, either to have the tribunal male, or to have the women at least dress modestly, yes. If they were tried in their own countries this would be a given.

I do not understand a military detention camp in Cuba being called the United States. It does not make sense to me.

I know you all think that torture of them was right and good, and that they should be allowed no respect because you do not think they are human beings. But even the most evil man is still a human, and you are about to kill him.. I am certain this will put an end to more suffering than was deserved, but I do not understand a mentality, from anyone, that would deprive the last days to have dignity.

When someone goes through atrocity, even if they were not religious before, they will become so because that is the only source of strength, for that kind of strength must only come from the depths of a soul, from inside, as well as outside in the form of your God. And the only way to reach that depth is through religion, through prayer. Also, when you believe any second will be your last, you will need that time for forgiveness, for begging of your Lord. Religion is going to be seen in such a situation in a much more definite and much more pronounced sense than any normal situation of life. Even the smallest of things one will cling tightly too. It is all they have, and the only source for strength. I do not know if anyone can understand that part. But the situation is so far outside the ordinary, that the religion will be matched to outside the ordinary.

reply to post by Jameela

If they had been imprisoned in their own countries they would have male lawyers, I am sure a female lawyer was appointed them for a specific design. Everything they are doing now is grandstanding, they want people to know of the torture, and the more they grandstand the more will hear. Also I think their minds are gone, they underwent too much torture, and are crazed now. It is why, even if found innocent of all charges the US cannot allow them free. I believe everyone knows this.

I do not understand a military detention camp in Cuba being called the United States. It does not make sense to me.

I've isolated the areas I'm replying to for space.

On the first point. I appreciate the clarification from someone with direct knowledge of these matters. I dind't immediately do a double take on the fact his attorney is a female in the first place, but when it did occur to me, I can't really get past it now. It seems to me that appointing a female to a defendant whose entire culture and religion is against this, in this way, was the first hard smack of the trial and a pretty solid sign of what is to come.

I want to see these men fry for what they did. The U.S. has spent years now trickle-releasing the mistakes, screw-ups and and misplaced bounty-arrests out of that Pay-for-prisoner program the U.S. was running in the early phase of the war. The ones there now are those even the liberals in power couldn't find a way to excuse or explain..and believe me, these people have looked. HARD. Some of what they've released later reappeared as high ranking Battlefield COMMANDERS. No way can I believe some goober who did nothing bad was suddenly promoted to something like Captain in their Army just to say thanks for hanging in there.

Having said that, they do deserve a fair trial. If we don't give these people a fair trial, then just what are we fighting to defend here? What are we trying to preserve?? It sure isn't what we started as fighting for in 2001. Although, I think everyone can agree that much is true these days. It's not for them, it's for us that I say fair is really required. I don't know that this IS NOT fair. I just hope it's kept honest for the sake of history and more.


Second point though. Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is American Soil inside Cuba. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Castro has wanted us out of there since he took power. We're there under an agreement that preceded him. It's almost funny, but I understand the U.S. Government sends Castro's Government a check, right on time, as agreed. Last I read a story on that, it's never cashed...but hey, we try!

Generally speaking though, any United States Military Base or Diplomatic Mission/Embassy is sovereign U.S. Soil. It's not just us. That goes for everybody and we respect it for foreign Embassies and bases (when not in outright war against those bases...lol) as much as we demand it. There are International Treaties on the subject and if we break it, others will break it against us. It keeps everyone honest on at least ONE topic.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Depending on where one is from, there are female lawyers and most Muslim men would have no problem with having an intelligent one.... areas that do not is Saudia (although recently I heard they now have female lawyers who can defend other females only) Afghanistan still probably does not and places like Swat in Pakistan do not although all other areas of Pakistan do. These are the areas these men are likely from or spent the majority of their time.

That said, the men being defended said the woman 'could' defend them 'if'' she covered. This says in the first place she was appointed, but they may have had an option to ask for another attorney should they have desired it.

So the first place was an effort by the US to make the men look more evil when/if they demanded another attorney, quite possibly... since everything US does is quite well thought out. But this did not happen, which means the men in question aren't from either Saudia or any tribal areas and/or have no qualms with a woman defense attorney, and/or they had ulterior motives of their own. They also do not do things without thinking them out.

This is why I say 'designs' but oddly those designs quite possibly go both ways, or what we would be hearing is not about women covering, but about these men refusing their defense attorney based on her gender. I am just throwing out some possibilities here in my line of thinking, because I could be reading more into it than necessary.

But I think all parties are having a game at hand, and she is everyone's pawn. In the end, its all a show. They want to appear martyrs to their people and the US wants to appear just in their actions. With her, everyone will be portraying themselves a victim. With the added bonus of extra publicity for all.

Seems like some people see conspiracies everywhere.....maybe the woman was appointed simply because she is an excellent defence lawyer and was considered the best person for the job?

That doesn't however excuse her for coming out with this nonsense.