Chemtrails...the "believers" might not like what I have to say...

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posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by Jakal26
 


Thanks for the rational approach you've taken here

I find it intersting that people think that any line in the sky "must" be a chemtrail. So many of the videos on you tube show lines in the sky with no evidence that they are anything other than contrails. For those who are too enveloped in the conspiracy world, a contrail is a condensation trail left by planes. Given the proper conditions, all jets will produce them.

People these days freak out when they see them, but like I said before, all jets make these funny lines in the sky if the atmosperic conditions are correct. With that established, is it really conceivable that every jet in the world is in on this conspiracy? ....Nope




posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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Hello,

I am still new on this site, long time lurker, second time posting. I want to jump right in the thick of this discussion and give my two-cents.

I think 90% of what people are filming, taking pictures of, and claiming conspiracies abound, are nothing more than weather modification programs burning silver iodide flares. And it is normal to start "developing" clouds 1000's of miles from where they will theoretically form into rain producing clouds. There is more water up there than down here. And it truly is a Blue Gold rush.

Is the government spraying? Yes. For what? Nobody really knows. But I have documents, reports, budgetary forms listing all sorts of fun stuff that Brookhaven and Argonne are mixing up for aerosol spraying. Some really nasty stuff. Peaceful purpose? HAARP truly is the world's sexiest energy weapons system.

What I have been noticing the past month is a new type of "chemtrail" acting as "contrails", only to flare up 5x bigger than any other "chemtrail" commonly seen. Not only have these new "chemtrails" completely covered the grid 10 minutes after, it has resulted in not normally seen Mammanus clouds both times I've witnessed this seeding/spraying.
I'm still working on this...

Finally, I will leave you with this, as if you may find my information to be off the wall nut-case type (in due time, I promise), I guide you to this website that sums everything up - gloriously. The Rabbit Hole Gets Deeper

---> For those who do not like to click on random links (being that I am new), you can use this instead.
www [dot] cmegroup [dot] com/trading/weather/



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by GuyFoxx
 


so contrails are a myth? Please, while you are digging into all your information, study up a bit on cloud seeding. pay particular attention to how it's done, why it's done, and most importantly, how often it's done. it is not a clandestine operation and is publicly acknowledged.

Contrails that persist are just like clouds that persist. Trust science, be skeptical of someone pushing an agenda. Like me.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Please point out exactly where in my post I specifically stated contrails are a myth.

I can't tell if I'm being trolled or not.
I am a newbie, so I'm not sure on a reply other than to say that:

I know a fair bit about wxmod.

No need to show my hand early



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:42 AM
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I actually forgot about this thread...(Just some random thought one morning......ATS really needs some kind of notification system for threads that are replied to)

Anyways....
I believe I was incorrect in the OP....about the "source" of this conspiracy rumor that was started and is now a HUGE sensation online....

Regardless, over time I have went from "believing" to being skeptical to now not believing...
Over the past month and a half or so I have been observing (as always) the skies....the "trails" have all but stopped....This is occurring on the west coast as well (as reported by many friends from many different regions)

I have come to believe what many here consider the "trolls" and the SCIENCE that they utilize to back up their claims of "persistent contrails"......these trails persist because of atmospheric conditions....

Sure, it is common sense to realize that when a jet flies over....it is equivalent to "driving a car in the sky"....the exhaust WILL and DOES fall back to the earth....This is something overlooked by those deep within the "conspiracy".....but this does not fully explain the purported levels of aluminum and barium, etc that have been (again, purportedly) recorded by some.....I think the explanation given by "Chadwickus" is sound (though many here will claim he, and now I, are "agents"...blah blah blah....whatever)

Of course "tests" and "experiments" have been carried out over time....this is now common knowledge among those that have done even a tiny bit of research on this subject....but there is not a massive global "spraying" going on, being covered up....it just isn't logical, and in reality has no "point"......I mean, really....tell me the purpose....SHOW me the science....show me PROOF....(and not some damned youtube videos of "lines in the skies", that is NOT proof)

The PROOF is with those that see this for what it is....Some will see different "reasons" for such a conspiracy rumor, some will see "cause and effect".....some will think it was "set up" to distract....whatever the reasons, I just don't buy it anymore....Logic does not stand with those that claim these things....

Lately, I have been noticing a photo going around the web of a supposed "chemtrail plane" (the inside of the plane supposedly).....in this picture there are tanks that appear to hold something...chemicals, water, beer...who knows. It is not listed on the "tanks"......There is a patent number on that tank....someone enlarged it in the photo and claimed it was "absolute proof" that these patents existed and were listed on this tank......
It took me 2 minutes to debunk that.....2 MINUTES!........The first dead give away was the fact that the enlarged photo had a patent number....the one from the tank, but failed to show the last two digits of the patent number in the enlarged photo......Then it was claimed this was some sort of CIA company called "Evergreen" that owned this patent....In less that 2 full minutes I also found that was a lie....Yet many were claiming "ABSOLUTE PROOF"....without doing the least bit of digging....

Today I saw someone post something about one of Obama's "people" saying that "geo-engineering would save the world" and I am beginning to once again believe that these is a serious AGENDA behind these rumors and lies about "chemtrails".....

What? I am not sure....
But do I believe there are spaying MASSIVE amounts of chemicals through commercial airliners all day and night all around the world without a single shred of evidence other than videos from youtube and claims that cannot be backed up? NO....
I have many questions for those who still "believe" but will not discuss them here because it seems at ATS "deny ignorance" only applies if you follow the ATS herd and circle jerk around the truth so you can be ENTERTAINED by conspiracy... (In many cases, that is what it is...simply and truthfully)

I am not here to mentally masturbate with the herd...I am here digging for the truth about things that interest me....
I care not about those who claim or think I am some "agent" of spreading "dis/mis information"....It matters not to me...

I am simply here seeking answers myself....

This is my take....I could go on and on but won't (but I am...lol)
It is hard to put into words years of research on this subject without spending my entire morning doing so and I just don't care to do that.....I think this post is simple and clear....I am still open to new information....but at this time...what I said above stands firm in my own head....



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by GuyFoxx


(in due time, I promise),






Dude, surely as a "long time lurker" you do realize that this simple statement right here destroys just about anything you have to say....
I really don't even want to waste my time clicking your link....thanks for the offer but my patience with the propaganda bs is said and done...seriously....

I could care less about your "promises" and this "due time"....

Really? Come on man....



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 08:51 AM
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Good so sit under them while you think they disentergrate harmlessly into the air.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 06:00 AM
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reply to post by Deathshere
 


Who said "they" disintegrate "harmlessly into the air"?
You must have missed the part where I touched on how it is essentially the same thing that comes from the exhaust of a car...?....Is that exhaust from a car "harmless"? No....Does that mean that the manufacturer of your car intentionally designed a "sprayer" so that your car would release some "trails" while you were driving? No...

Please though, by all means....show me where these chem/con trails are causing me any more harm than the countless other things in our environment....I would like to see that info...(but you won't because you can't)...

This is another problem I have with those full-fledged "believers"....the ones that aren't skeptical or who aren't looking for truth...merely a good conspiracy to ENTERTAIN them...(because in the end, that is EXACTLY what it is)...
Every time anyone spends any time looking at things from the "other side" they are suddenly some "agent", hell-bent on discrediting those who "know" these trails are nefarious in design and are being "sprayed" for specific purposes (purposes they only speculate on, btw)

When one is objectively looking for and seeking out the truth of matters, one is willing to step outside their personal beliefs and views, even if for only a moment...and at least LOOK at the "others" arguments, data, and thinking....but many who are "believers" just aren't willing to do that and fight just like those arguing for the official 911 story....it is like someone is personally attacking them when one attacks their reasoning...it is like they believe their reasoning can never be flawed....

I would imagine those with one line responses like yours haven't spent time researching properly...just believing and parroting what you hear online.....those like myself have spent YEARS researching this subject...and as I said, at one time I was a firm "believer".....it took me a while to get to the "believing" point of view...and even longer to see my own flawed logic....and the fact that I had started, to an extent, to believe without any further questioning....

I refuse to do that, no matter how many want to do just that....it is ridiculous...
Ideas and beliefs are absolutely NOT sound just because they come from the "alternative media" and "alternative" sources and go against the mainstream, institutional thinking.......some have a long way to go in understanding "controlled" opposition....they really do....

I have been "sitting under those trails" for YEARS....please, show me the effects it is having on all of us that can be DIRECTLY attributed to these "trails".....Please do.....I am STILL willing to look at information from the "opposing" side (which is no the "believers") yet they seem to only attack me...not the issue and not the facts.....just blind accusations and statements about the ignorance of others.....(that kind of thing is absolutely telling to me as well)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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Some questions I've never had adequately answered by chemtrail advocates:

1. Why would the (insert diabolical baby eating, puppy kicking clandestine organization of your choice) such an insurmountably stupid 'weapon' as chemtrails? Unless they've also managed to control the weather and air currents how are they supposed to control this? Everything from atmospheric studies to the eruption of Mount Saint Helens shows that once in the sky particles can drift for hundreds of miles. This inevitably would put whoever is supposed to be behind this (as wells as their families, children, pets, etc.) in as much danger as anyone else. If their goal is to blot out the sun as suggested then how do they stop normal atmospheric conditions from blowing it over their own country? For an all powerful cabal who run the world their methods are pretty shoddy.

2. There are numerous random diseases alleged to be caused by chemtrails. Be it Morgellons, autism, cancer, or whatever else is in vogue at the moment then why are there not clusters amongst those most at risk: farmers/tractor operators, bush pilots, storm chasers, park rangers, loggers, river guides, etc? They're constantly outdoors so you'd think they'd be struck down in droves.

3. Why hasn't a single actual scientist specialized in the atmospheric or meteorological fields come out in support of this theory? TV weathermen are often primarily trained in journalism or communications, and have no substantial scientific qualifications. The few weathermen I've seen supporting chemtrails reflect this.

4. For those who blame Morgellons on chemtrails I've yet to see any credible proof of a connection. While I don't think it is an entirely psychosomatic illness, I have yet to see any convincing evidence of the fibers being nonorganic or nanites. Every single YouTube user touting their footage of these 'activating' on contact with liquid ignore the obvious reason: dry material often appears to move when dampened. Kindergarteners do it with paper worms all the time. The only other movement I've seen were obviously the result of poking at the object in the liquid, or jostling of the surface they put it in.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by Jakal26
I actually forgot about this thread...(Just some random thought one morning......ATS really needs some kind of notification system for threads that are replied to)


If you go to "messages" and click "replies" right beside your "inbox", it tells you when people reply to you



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Thanks PurpleChiten....I wasn't aware of that feature...
That will help a lot in the future....



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by Equidae
 


I agree with your assessments and questions....these are also questions I began to have a few years ago after further researching this "conspiracy" (or lack thereof...whatever one wants to call it)

I began to wonder what the purpose was....and after observing the trails for years and thinking (because of some much muddled water....(information...mis/dis) they were trying to make us sick...or kill us....I began to wonder why I wasn't seeing TONS of people getting sick (like I had expected after "learning" of "them")........Suddenly, many changed course. It went from "gassing us" and making us sick (supposedly) to "bloating out the sun".....

I also began to think that was the intent....but I started becoming very skeptical....I spent hours, days, weeks observing the skies.....simple observation tells me the intent is NOT to "bloat out the sun". If such was the case/is the case....it is HIGHLY ineffective. I have witnessed trails that appeared to be what the believers say are "chemtrails"...ones that very much fit the profile...at first glance one would say, "oh, see, there is what I am talking about"....but if one is to observe this trail for extended periods of time one will see that many of them simply dissipate and are gone....Now, why would they waste all those chemicals, all that jet fuel...etc to spray a trail that simply isn't effective on ANY level that I can see or conceive.

When it comes to the multitude of diseases BLAMED on "chemtrails"...I just don't buy it, it is simply a scape-goat of sorts....Notice (and I have observed this over the years) that those who are "hardcore" chemtrail "believers" always SEEM to "suffer" from these illnesses more so than those who don't....
I observe a few I know on facebook.....they spend countless hours posting and ranting about "chemtrails".....some of these people LITERALLY shut themselves off, going as far as putting plastic and ducktape on the windows of their homes every time they see these trails....
That type of mentality, the extreme "version" of the "believer".....that speaks VOLUMES to me....but I won't go into that because only those who "see" that will ever "see" that.....it is simply observation on a psychological level...

And to your third "question".....I agree....that is all...

We seem to be on the same page....though, like I said, if anyone...ANYONE can provide REAL, tangible information on the existence of "chemtrails"....information that can be verified...I am more than willing to look at it. (Experimentation doesn't count.....because YES, MANY governments have "experimented" with airborne chemicals....cloud seeding is real....those facts do not equate a global conspiracy to geo-engineer or to kill us all or make us sick, or to "bloat out the sun"....it just doesn't!)



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by Jakal26
 

What bothers me the most about this conspiracy is the lack of unity with the believers. You ask what chemtrails are supposed to be for, and you get a range of answers from geo-engineering, to kill all of mankind. Then you ask who is doing this, and you get "them" as an answer.

Finally, when you provide them a way to prove their theory, they excuse wagon rolls out and you get labeled a troll/disinfo/shill for doing it.

I almost think it would be better to just let them believe this, they when they go out in public and spread the "news" normal people will know exactly what kind of bonehead they are dealing with.

It's as close to a religion without the God/salvation aspect as I have seen.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Jakal26
 

What bothers me the most about this conspiracy is the lack of unity with the believers. You ask what chemtrails are supposed to be for, and you get a range of answers from geo-engineering, to kill all of mankind. Then you ask who is doing this, and you get "them" as an answer.

Finally, when you provide them a way to prove their theory, they excuse wagon rolls out and you get labeled a troll/disinfo/shill for doing it.

I almost think it would be better to just let them believe this, they when they go out in public and spread the "news" normal people will know exactly what kind of bonehead they are dealing with.

It's as close to a religion without the God/salvation aspect as I have seen.


The only comparable ones are the David Icke cultists. Even then I've seen a lot of cross believers between the two movements. The whole notion of widespread conspiracy and disinformation is dubious to me. If there really was some all powerful shadow organization out to get us all then you'd think they'd be a bit better at stamping out all those random little conspiracy websites. If they couldn't even pull off Watergate, conceal the truth about the Gulf of Tonkin incident, or plant some WMDs for Coalition troops to find in Iraq then why would they ever even consider (let alone implement) anything as ridiculous as chemtrails. Even if there was a real modern day Illuminati I wouldn't care since they obviously suck at devious plots.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by Chadwickus
 


Well said chadwick well said sir, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for your dedication to educating poor misguided souls who have the dark hearts to imagine such things could actually happen. I so long for the days when people trusted authority ...don't you??





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