Islam brings people to Jesus...

reply to post by Sahabi

Islam brings people to Muhammad and Allah.... not Jesus.

Jesus is inseperable from Islam. People who are "brought" to Allah , end up understanding that Jesus was the Messiah.

Islam only represents Jesus in name and brief biography.

One can say the same for Christianity as well.
Islam and Christianity represent 3.5 billion people on the planet..... these people are brought to Jesus via 2 religions.

Islam does not propagate any of the teachings of Jesus found in canonical, gnostic, nor apocrypha texts.

Name some of those teachings.

Teaching of a name and biography while ignoring and rejecting Jesus' teachings is not bringing people closer to Jesus.

Are you telling me that Christians follow all of Jesus' teachings?
Actually, first tell me which Christian sects views are you referring to? There are so many sects pointing fingers at fellow sects and calling them "false".

Can I assume you are catholic. If not, why? Are catholics not christian?

reply to post by daaskapital


Constantine combined the christian religion and the pagan
religions together.A lot of christians don't know that the holidays
they celebrate are really pagan holidays with christian clothing.

reply to post by mamabeth

The understanding that I have of islam is they believe Yeshua/Jesus was a man, a prophet,no more than that.

You mean, you never knew that Islam also teaches that Jesus was the messiah born miraculously of a virgin ?

double
pls delete

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Islams understanding of the Messiah is a false doctrine,

Jesus Christ was no follower of Allah, HE IS ALLAH!

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

That is well and good,but...Islam believes that their
prophet was greater than Yeshua/Jesus,he was not!
Yeshua/Jesus was G-d in flesh and one day,every
knee shall bow to Him.
The understanding that I have of islam is they believe
Yeshua/Jesus was a man, a prophet,no more than that.

In the world of spirituality, where the mind of man forms mental imagery for thoughts, not only are dreams and angels formed, but issues of god. For ancient man there were troubles in deciding if the image of mind were one in the same as those made via the eye. Often, The constructs of the mind and those of the eye were both taken as a reality. So, there were always tests for in the flesh or in the mind. This all making much of the god issues for man constucts of the mind, as god is that of intelligent design separate of the mind of man and only of the eye of man. Most think intelligent design is not in the mind, but that of the universe, have to reject the spirit of mind and being useful for reality thinking.

Jesus internal views of god were better than most, yet only of the spirit of mind. Teaching reality is limited to what the eye can see, and not that which the spirit of mind thinks it sees.

Intelligent design comes from a creator outside the constructs of the human mind.

These associations of the difficult to understand issues of Spirit and such make Jesus the lesser of Prophets, and really defeated before he even got really started.

Since his followers can't get the stories in the correct vogues for reality and spirt separated, they are also defeated before they even started.

Jesus remains dead, because his followers are dead of the spirit of the mind speaking needed to express things correctly. Reincarnation themes are spirit of the mind issues.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Are you a Muslim, an Atheist, or a Satanist?

It's hard to tell, your posts are usually displaying qualities of one of the three,

Just wondering

reply to post by Iason321


Are you high?

No offense, seriously... but your last couple of posts have been rather wierd.

Just saying.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

Are you a Muslim, an Atheist, or a Satanist?

It's hard to tell, your posts are usually displaying qualities of one of the three,

Just wondering

Not Islam, but I read all religions and look for the truth, the environments it was composed, looking at the good.

Not atheist, as I study the intelligent design. But recognize all the false icons for god.

Not Satan, as I seek the good, good stewardship, benevolence via truth. And I don't make a dead man god.


All my posts get down to the simple realities and those are the organized churches are nonsense that drive the world into hell and lies rather than truth and light.

Your issue is you are young person with the typical thought that you know everything because you read one book. You have a lot more learning to do and one of the issues that you need to learn is defining what is the spirit and departures from reality.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Your view of me is skewed though,

I come from an atheist background and nonreligious family,

Also, I've read literally thousands upon thousands of books,

Studied for many thousands of hours on the computer as well,

I am far, far from uneducated in this subject matter,

What you deem ignorance,

I deem wisdom,

1 Corinthians 1:25-31

King James Version (KJV)

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Can I assume you are catholic. If not, why? Are catholics not christian?

I was a Buddhist until I found Jesus Christ as a Baptists.

After learning the history of the Bible, the Church, and doctrine/dogma I left Christianity and became Muslim.

I followed the Salafi mad'dhab until I discovered the corruption of Islam.

Now I adhere to absolutely no religion, alhamdulil'lah

Jesus is expected to return and slaughter the anti-christ along with the non-christians who follow the anti-christ??

Who wrote the Book of Revelations? Apostle John wrote it, not Jesus. It was John who foretold the battle of Armageddon, not Jesus.

Do Christians believe that Jesus returns and turn the other cheek to the anti-christ????

I am only going by the words and actions attributed to Jesus during his life, and not some prophesies of Apostle Paul or John. Jesus in his actual life DID teach to turn the other cheek.

Jesus is inseperable from Islam. People who are "brought" to Allah , end up understanding that Jesus was the Messiah.

Islam ONLY honors Jesus in name, title, and minor mention of biographical points. But no teachings of Jesus are taught in Islam. It is only the teachings of Muhammad and Allah.

Name some of those teachings

Gospels. I am talking about Gospels only. Biblical Gospels, Gnostic Gospels, Apocrypha Gospels.

The Gospels are filled with teachings not mentioned in the Qur'an. Here are a few off the top of my head akhi.

(Love All and Everything are the greatest laws)

Gospel of Matthew

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

(Love your enemies and those who curse you... not execute them like in Islam)

Gospel of Luke

“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

(Kingdom of God is within)

Gospel of Thomas

"Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."


"...the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty."

"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" [John 10:34]


Assalaamu alaikum, rah'matulahi wa bara'katu



P.S.
These teachings of Jesus are considered in opposition and a blasphemy to Islam, jihad, and jizyah tax.

Therefore, Islam DOES NOT bring people closer to Jesus. Islam brings people closer to Muhammad and Allah.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

Your view of me is skewed though,

I come from an atheist background and nonreligious family,

Also, I've read literally thousands upon thousands of books,

Studied for many thousands of hours on the computer as well,

I am far, far from uneducated in this subject matter,

What you deem ignorance,

I deem wisdom,

1 Corinthians 1:25-31

King James Version (KJV)

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

All that has nothing to do with Islams. Totally off topic nonsense about yourself. This isn't the lason theme.

Talk about what Islams discovered on Jesus. And quit the nonsense.


Not being able to stay on theme is not an example of intelligence.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


I am an EX Buddhist, EX Christian, and EX Muslim. I have studied the Bible, the Qur'an and their subsequent religions and histories in depth.

Additionally, I know of the comparisons to Muhammad and Moses.
Misha'al ibn Abdullah, the writer, did a great job at comparing the two.


I do not care to classify religious leaders out of "respect" for the religion. I compare religious leaders according to deed and teachings.

Buddha and Jesus DID NOT teach or propagate violence or suffering.

Muhammad ibn Abdullah and Hebrew Patriarch Joshua ibn Nun were blood-thirsty, political warlords, and actively waged religious wars.

Muhammad IS NOT of the spiritually enlightened class of Jesus and Buddha.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

I am both an EX Christian and EX Muslim. I have studied the Bible, the Qur'an and their subsequent religions and histories in depth.

Additionally, I know of the comparisons to Muhammad and Moses.
Misha'al ibn Abdullah, the writer, did a great job at comparing the two.


I do not care to classify religious leaders out of "respect" for the religion. I compare religious leaders according to deed and teachings.

Buddha and Jesus DID NOT teach or propagate violence or suffering.

Muhammad ibn Abdullah and Hebrew Patriarch Joshua ibn Nun were blood-thirsty, political warlords, and actively waged religious wars.

Muhammad IS NOT of the spiritually enlightened class of Jesus and Buddha.

Which is why so many have to design their own hybrid truth and reality based religion these days. Study the stories of all religions, extract that which is good and leave behind the not so good. It is truth basically, the real history. And I can see why you gave up on each religion. None of them get everything right.

I think we saw how far Jesus got with being the peace lover and not speaking clearly enough. That didn't work and even went out of control after Jesus left the territory. What is left is the problem these days.

Islam promotes peace between those that believe in the correct god theme, and destruction to those that don't. After all, it is as destructive to societies as it is to the conversation here. Islam often chooses to kill the infidels, as the christian crusades often chose to kill them.

Those that don't have the correct theme are the organized churches. Those that make Jesus as god.

Jesus went nowhere and all that remains is a faked up word war, which makes matter worse and more untruthful.

One can't win by telling the bigger lie, which is about all that is going on.

You won't find me in any church these days getting fed fairy tales and nonsense.

I find a lot more value hanging with truth seekers that are after the actual story. Masons rank high because they get real close to the truth and they see god as a sort of intelligent design theme or a great architec of universe.

Muslim do not believe in Jesus, they believe in the Antichrist. Your Jesus only brings peace for 7 years, ours brings it for 1000 years on earth and then for eternity. Our Jesus is your Antichrist, your Jesus is our Antichrist.

Muslim really believe in Jesus? Then why do you disobey him? Tell me, where is Jesus in any of this Islamic law/Sharia Law?

• 1- Jihad defined as “to war against all non-Muslims to establish the religion” is the duty of every Muslim and Muslim head of state (Caliph). Muslim Caliphs who refuse jihad are in violation of Sharia and unfit to rule.
• 2- A Caliph can hold office through seizure of power meaning through force.
• 3- The head of an Islamic State (Caliph) cannot be charged, let alone be punished for serious crimes such as murder, adultery, robbery, theft, drinking and in some cases of rape (Hudood cases) - Codified Islamic Law Vol 3 # 914C of and page 188 of Hedaya the Hanafi manual.
• 4- A percentage of Zakat (alms) must go towards jihad.
• 5- It is obligatory to obey the commands of the Caliph, even if he is unjust.
• 6- A caliph must be a Muslim, a non-slave and a male.
• 7- The Muslim public must remove the Caliph in one case, if he rejects Islam.
• 8- A Muslim who leaves Islam (apostate) must be killed immediately.
• 9- A Muslim will be forgiven for murder of : a) an apostasy b) an adulterer c) a highway robber. Making vigilante street justice and honor killing acceptable.
• 10- A Muslim will not get the death penalty if he kills a non-Muslim.
• 11- Sharia never abolished slavery and sexual slavery and highly regulates it. A master will not be punished for killing his slave. Slavery still exists amongst Arab Muslims.
• 12- Sharia dictates death by stoning, beheading, for sins like killing, adultery, prostitutions; and other Quranic corporal punishments like: amputation of limbs (chopping hands and feet), floggings, beatings and other forms of cruel and unusual punishments even for the sins like: stealing, sexual promiscuity, robbery, burglary etc.
• 13- Non-Muslims are not equal to Muslims and must comply to Sharia (pay Zizzya: poll tax) if they are to remain safe. They are forbidden to marry Muslim women, publicly display wine or pork, recite their own religious scriptures, or openly celebrate their religious holidays or funerals. They are forbidden from building new churches or building them higher than mosques. They may not enter a mosque without permission. A non-Muslim is no longer protected if he commits adultery with a Muslim woman or if he leads a Muslim away from Islam.
• 14- It is a crime for a non-Muslim to sell weapons to someone who will use them against Muslims. Non-Muslims cannot curse a Muslim, say anything derogatory about Allah, the Prophet, or Islam, or expose the weak points of Muslims. However, Muslims can curse, criticize or say anything derogatory they like to the religions of others.
• 15- A non-Muslim cannot inherit from a Muslim.
• 16- Banks must be Sharia compliant and interest is not allowed.
• 17- No testimony in court is acceptable from people of low-level jobs, such as street sweepers or a bathhouse attendant. Women in such low level jobs such as professional funeral mourners cannot keep custody of their children in case of divorce.
• 18- A non-Muslim cannot rule even over a non-Muslims minority.
• 19- Homosexuality is punishable by death.
• 20- There is no age limit for marriage of girls under Sharia. The marriage contract can take place anytime after birth and consummated at age 8 or 9.
• 21- Rebelliousness on the part of the wife nullifies the husband’s obligation to support her, gives him permission to beat her and keep her from leaving the home.
• 22- Divorce is only in the hands of the husband and is as easy as saying: “I divorce you” and becomes effective even if the husband did not intend it.
• 23- There is no common property between husband and wife and the husband’s property does not automatically go to the wife after his death.
• 24- A woman inherits half what a man inherits. Sister gets half of what brother gets.
• 25- A man has the right to have up to 4 wives and wife has no right to divorce him even if he is polygamous.
• 26- The dowry is given in exchange for the woman’s sexual organs.
• 27- A man is allowed to have sex with slave women and also with women captured in battle (concubines), and if the enslaved woman is married her marriage is annulled.
• 28- The testimony of a woman in court is half the value of a man; that is, two women equal to one man.
• 29- A woman looses custody if she remarries.
• 30- A rapist may only be required to pay the bride-money (dowry) without marrying the rape victim.
• 31- A Muslim woman must cover every inch of her body which is considered “Awrah,” a sexual organ. Some schools of Sharia allow the face and some don’t.
• 32- A Muslim man is forgiven if he kills his wife caught in the act of adultery. However, the opposite is not true for women since he “could be married to the woman he was caught with.”
• 33-It is obligatory for a Muslim to lie if the purpose is obligatory and is known as Taqiyya (Islamic Deception). That means that for the sake of abiding with Islam’s commandments, such as jihad, a Muslim is obliged to lie and should not have any feelings of guilt or shame associated with this kind of lying.
The above are clear-cut laws in Islam decided by great Imams after years of examination and interpretation of the Quran, Hadith and Mohammed’s life.
• 34. The perpetrators of genocide, mass rape and plunder will not be punished if they repent - Codified Islamic Law Vol 1 # 13.
• 35. To prove rape, a woman must have 4 male witnesses. Women’s testimony is not accepted -


All these break every single one of Christ's commandments, how then can you say muslim believe in Jesus? You do not even obey him! You believe in legalized rape, murder, theft, adultery, telling lies...the list goes on and on and not a one of these laws would he even be remotely for. In fact he would tell you that these are the laws of hypocrites.

And when we get to the bottom line, the world is fed up with religion's attempts to be overbearing. Islam dislikes Jewish and Christian. Jewish dislikes Christians because Jesus is god. Christians tell their lie that offends each.

Nobody is going to care if Islam gets a bomb and blows the Christians off the Map or the Jewish.

Everyone's had enough of the totally screwed up loss of common sense and reality. Almost nothing is worth salvaging about religion.

Armageddon is the only fix for totally out of control religion stupidity.


One day several parts of the world won't wake up because a blinding light went off and nothing but smoke was left. god will have found the cure for religious insanity.

The world would be better off with no religions. Truth should have been the only religion, but even that is gone.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Sahabi

 

Jesus taught non-violence.... live by the sword, die by the sword... love your enemies and bless those who curse you.

Yet, Jesus is expected to return and slaughter the anti-christ along with the non-christians who follow the anti-christ??

Do Christians believe that Jesus returns and turn the other cheek to the anti-christ????

It cant be BOTH...

edit on 6-5-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Why kill at all when showing the truth will make the Anti-Christ totaly harmless? When all know someone is corrupted and totaly destructive and crazy viewpoint that will destroy all then why would any sane person follow him/her. A seed do not need to kill anything to make a change and Gandi was a seed just like Jesus and Buddha and not the only one. If something needs to be removed then it will by god mysterious ways (synchronicity).

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Except Mohammad did not campaign for land or for race... like Genghis and Hitler respectively.

Mohammad fought, Old Testament style, to establish monotheism that recognizes Jesus as Messiah.

Interesting that you admit that Muhammad was a military commander who campaigned to establish the supremacy of Islam.

Muhammad, the military commander

• Fought 8 major battles
• Led 18 raids,
• Planned another 38 military operations where others were in command but operating under his orders and strategic direction.

HistoryNet

Major battles were exactly that.

• At Kheibar in 628 C.E., the Muslim army was 2,000 combatants.
• When Muhammad mounted his assault on Mecca (630 C.E.) he did so with 10,000 men.
• And at the Battle of Hunayn a few months later the army numbered 12,000.

Source: Islamic Imperialism: A History by Karsh, E. (2007)

The Koran makes it clear that non Muslims must be forcibly humbled under Islam and made to pay a jizyah (a tax).

Koran 9:29

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Koran 9:29

If Muhammad fought 8 major battles to establish Allah as the one true god, and the Koran makes it clear than non-Muslims must be fought until they are humbled and made to pay jizyah (tax) in what sense is Islam a religion of peace?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000




[

Originally posted by lonewolf19972000

Muslim really believe in Jesus? Then why do you disobey him? Tell me, where is Jesus in any of this Islamic law/Sharia Law?

• 1- Jihad defined as “to war against all non-Muslims to establish the
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
• 35. To prove rape, a woman must have 4 male witnesses. Women’s testimony is not accepted -


All these break every single one of Christ's commandments, how then can you say muslim believe in Jesus? You do not even obey him! You believe in legalized rape, murder, theft, adultery, telling lies...the list goes on and on and not a one of these laws would he even be remotely for. In fact he would tell you that these are the laws of hypocrites.

I’m pretty sure you must have read the horrific verses described in Deuteronomy.


The thing is, if everyone judged the prophets and kings in the OT, by their evil actions, then no one would be following the God of the Old Testament.


IMO we can’t judge God, based on the actions of imperfect men.

As for Mohammed going around forcing people to accept Islam, at the point of a sword… well, this just doesn’t appear to be historically accurate, and even if it was, we would still have to apply the same measurement, in comparison to the OT atrocities.


I mean, take David as just one example (there are many) in the OT, he was a man of God, but he wasn’t perfect by any means, and yet people can still find God through his words/writings, even today. So why the same thinking can’t be applied to Mohammed, seems a little hypocritical IMO


As for the Sharia Laws, most Muslims are of the opinion that those Laws are not part of the original Quran. And speaking of Laws, the extra laws added to the Ten Commandments in Judaism, are not exactly, what I would call, user friendly. And yet know one is going around, saying that the men who wrote them, are not prophets from God.


- JC