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Paul messed up Christianity

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posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by Klassified
 



Paul(Saul) was not a gentile. He was a Jew. A Pharisee of Pharisees if we are to believe what the text says.


Correct, he was from the tribe of Benjamin.




posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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Wikianswers:

Thirteen 'epistles' or letters have been attributed to Paul. Hebrews was also at one stage attributed to him, but that is clearly not the case. It was never attributed to him until late in the second century.

At least seven Pauline epistles are widely considered to be genuine, and of these five have been shown by computer analysis to contain exactly the same writing or dictation style: Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Philemon and Galatians.

The two that may, with some confidence, have been written by Paul, but do not match the style of Galatians are Philippians and 1 Thessalonians.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by Klassified



Politics causes war, not spirituality. Religion causes war under the pretext of absolute power through politics. Every war in history the person ont he side to push the trigger on a gun held power of politics, either through ruthless means, power, money, etc etc. Pope use to have political power= savage crusade. Paul is to blame, because he created the church through the hierarchy that it is, popes, bishop cardnials, to those who he have given special "political power" at the time. Although, these things have change throughout history, since the separation of church and state. The church today is completely responsible for what horrible things they do.
edit on 5-5-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-5-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Peter deserved rebuke. He acted one way when the Jews were not around and acted another way toward the Gentiles when the Jews did come around.
Yeah, you'd think that since they are both led by the holy spirit that they'd both be on the same page.
Reminds of the stuff that goes on here...
edit on 5-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by stanguilles7
 

Werent they all written after his death?

You may be thinking of Jesus.
The Gospels were written after Jesus' death, that is kind of obvious.
Paul founded churches and wrote letters to them.
Half of the letters traditionally attributed to Paul in the New Testament
were not actually written by him.
edit on 5-5-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Jordan River
 


Peter deserved rebuke. He acted one way when the Jews were not around and acted another way toward the Gentiles when the Jews did come around.


Peter was being two-faced and Paul dug into his crap over it. He also tied into it with Mark over walking out on them when they went on a journey when Mark turned around and walked home to Jerusalem.

Also i say again, Council of Jerusalem in acts 15, if Paul was an apostate he would have been tossed out on his ear by the other apostles.
edit on 5-5-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Jordan River
 


Peter deserved rebuke. He acted one way when the Jews were not around and acted another way toward the Gentiles when the Jews did come around.


Peter was being two-faced and Paul dug into his crap over it. He also tied into it with Mark over walking out on them when they went on a journey when Mark turned around and walked home to Jerusalem.

Also i say again, Council of Jerusalem in acts 15, if Paul was an apostate he would have been tossed out on his ear by the other apostles.
edit on 5-5-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)


some may say two face, others may see it as keeping peace on both sides



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by Jordan River


if I had to pick a disciple (he really never met the physical jesus either) of Christ, I would say that Paul, (probably the one with greatest of political power) is to blame for the majority of the issues with the Church.

Paul work is good, the core beliefs, but his attack towards and against Peter and the "so called disciples" are degrading and judgmental.

In my opinion Political power ruins religion and organize religion and ultimately humanity than spirituality and/or doctrine teachings of othrodox church.

I would disagree. Speaking of political power: Compare the Roman Empire in Paul's day with the current World situation of today.

1) Jews(by religion) of various ethnic backgrounds scattered (as in spread out, not as in exiled) throughout the known World, many of them in highly placed political and financial positions.

2) A growing Messianic fervor in the region around Jerusalem to "fulfill the Old Testament Zionist goal of One World Government centered in Jerusalem"(that's all through the Psalms and Prophets)

3) Incursions by Judaisers into the ranks of Christians with the goal of bringing them into compliance with Jerusalem rule, including submission to proto Talmudic Noahide Laws, and support of Jerusalem (James and Peter territory)

4) Incursions of Zionist ideologies within the Diaspora Jewish communities( once again seen as multi ethnic converts to Judaism and their descendants) to support solidarity with Jerusalem in its bid to bring in the Messianic Age through violent rebellion against Rome. In our day, as Chabad, World Zionist Oraganization, AIPAC, ADL, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam organizational activities.

In actuality, Paul was teaching peace and acceptance of a proto-separation-of-church-and-State concept. The Judaisers actually won in the end by having the Old Testament held as higher authority than Paul's writings. So today we are faced with the prospect of a total Zionist agenda aimed at political, financial, military, ideological bases of Western culture leading to violent imposition of Zionist goals.(Nakba, US vetos of UN Security Council sanctions, US invasion of Iraq, US and NATO overthrow of Libya, planned take over of Syria, and planned attack on Iran, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam)

The problem of the Church is that it didn't take Paul seriously enough. That's not Paul's fault.


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posted on May, 5 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by Klassified
 



Paul(Saul) was not a gentile. He was a Jew. A Pharisee of Pharisees if we are to believe what the text says.
However, he was sent to the gentiles.


Paul studied under Gamaliel and for anyone who doesn't know what Gamaliel was like. Here he is:

Gamaliel

Gamaliel was supposed to be Paul's tutor but Gamaliel actually defended the apostles when the Sanhedrin argued for killing them.

Gamaliel argued that there were other people claiming to be the messiah before Yeshua but after they were killed and after the ensuing revolt their following died out. To which he then said in his concluding arguement about the budding chrisitian faith:

"if it be of men, it will come to naught, but if it be of God, ye will not be able to overthrow it; lest perhaps ye be found even to fight against God".

2000 years later we're still here, after many attempts to overthrow the faith
.
edit on 5-5-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by Jordan River
 


This is insane. So God would allow his book to have a false prophet remain in the NT to confuse people? Paul is a prophet. God created a hierarchy just like the OT had a hierarchy. God gave the apostles the ability to forgive sins john 20. Malachias 1:11 talks about the "new" sacrafice spreading throughout the World. what's the new sacrafice? What's the clean oblation that would be offered on a daily biases in Malachias mean?

Why did the apostles come together (in a building) on the 1st day of the week in the NT to break bread? You see if God didn't set up a hierarchy to interpret scripture (whatever you loose and bind) on Earth; then 100s of different interpretations would spread throughout the world and the Church would be divided.

That's why God set up a body to interpret scripture. And it's also why when the revolt happened, 100s of different interpretations have existed since that point.

The Catholic Church is the true Church and it will rise again soon.

peace
edit on 6-5-2012 by JesuslsTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 02:16 AM
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reply to post by JesuslsTruth
 

Paul is a prophet.

In the sense of the word in common use today, he wasn't, except for some odd reason in 2 Thess., which is to me the strongest argument against it as a "real' letter from Paul.



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by Jordan River
 

Paul is to blame, because he created the church through the hierarchy that it is, popes, bishop cardnials, to those who he have given special "political power" at the time.
This is true only if you believe in the current NT canon which was settled on by Bishop Athanasius who made that position political with the help of Constantine, who he was real tight with.
I would advise Christians to take a hard look at that, and why we believe what we do, and to consider going with modern biblical scholarship and to reject the later books pretending to be by Paul, such as the Timothy and Ephesians letters, and others. The books generally agreed on that were really by Paul do not support a church hierarchical system.



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by Jordan River
 

I think paul messed up! Honestly, if I had to pick a disciple (he really never met the physical jesus either) of Christ . . .
What makes you think Jesus is not physical?

. . . his attack towards and against Peter and the "so called disciples" are degrading and judgmental.
You are maybe going off some rather fuzzy memories of what Paul was saying. Let me quote something he actually said,

Galatians 2:4 Now this matter arose because of the false brothers with false pretenses who slipped in unnoticed to spy on our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, to make us slaves.
He was not talking about the original disciples, but people who came in later who were subversive to the Christian message and were steering it back towards orthodox Judaism.



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 07:15 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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Great job OP
It was so long ago I can't remember the details but I actively disliked Paul when I read the bible. I went to a Born Again church and was being told what to believe based on Paul and got into a habit of pointing out how he was just a guy.

Jesus is as God as we are all.

Father is material universe
Son is life in the realm of time
Holy spirit is the universe beyond the material.

If you don't like my explanation that's fine, but it's common in vedic literature. That's where he was educated.

We are all God because consciousness is God. Whoever you think you are, you are not - because there is always a witness of the phenomenon you call yourself. You can't be the thing you witness, but something is witnessing the whole show. That thing is God. Jesus knew this.

I think none of you have the humility to put two and two together.



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by JesuslsTruth
 





The Catholic Church is the true Church and it will rise again soon.


Wrong. The true church is a spiritual brotherhood, not one made by the hands of men but by our God Yeshua. The R.C.C. is another corrupted religion of men which is why it is riddled with diseases like alcoholism and pedophilia. The R.C.C. is at the opposing end of Yeshua's will. Yeshua never advocated celibacy, that is yet one more thing inserted into what he made by men, he also never commanded worshipping any wafers.



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 09:46 AM
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fyi. it wasn't paul that messed up Christianity... It was all the fabricated storys and people with majical powers that messed up Christianity.



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by squandered
 

We are all God because consciousness is God.

In a similar fashion as to how the guppy in your backyard pond is the same as a great white shark, both being fish.
Both Paul and Jesus would have been brought up in a world of Hellenistic Judaism, from opposite sides of the Mediterranean, one to the north, in Asia Minor, the other in the South probably in Alexandria, waiting for a safe time to return to Palestine, and then settling in gentile Galilee. They would have been heavily influenced by some for of Platonism and Stoicism.
edit on 6-5-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 05:10 PM
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Religion would be in better condition if it was practice in home privately, obviously, with no spiritual leader and individual spiritualism would of flourished under this pretext. the body is not a building and jesus did not speak of creating a religion, and paul only claim to witness the decease jesus (spirit).



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Jordan River
 

I think paul messed up! Honestly, if I had to pick a disciple (he really never met the physical jesus either) of Christ . . .
What makes you think Jesus is not physical?

. . . his attack towards and against Peter and the "so called disciples" are degrading and judgmental.
You are maybe going off some rather fuzzy memories of what Paul was saying. Let me quote something he actually said,

Galatians 2:4 Now this matter arose because of the false brothers with false pretenses who slipped in unnoticed to spy on our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, to make us slaves.
He was not talking about the original disciples, but people who came in later who were subversive to the Christian message and were steering it back towards orthodox Judaism.


Cause jesus died , afterwards Jesus went to paul... Wait a tick, i am having a dual thought about this matter the more I think about it. Jc. IMOB had a physical resurrection, but under the pretext written in the bible after he rose from the dead, he went to heaven sometime afterwards. Although a part of me challenges the idea if Jesus even went back to the heaven. After this I have my own speculation (insert dan brown, JC went to france)

and no that is not the verse I was thinking about, more of the lines of , "those so called apostles" and paul bickering that the 12 weren't good enough


edit on 6-5-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)



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