UPDATE: Laser Injures Delta Pilot in Flight

An unknown laser source has injured the Delta Airlines pilot while in flight over Salt Lake City, Utah last week. The Armed Forces have stressed there concern and have also received related injuries in the past. Terrorist Use? An investigation will continue.



Are terrorists working on a new way to take down airliners? The military already knew that it could be used as a weapon.

Related News Links:
Washington Times


[edit on 9-29-2004 by Zion Mainframe]

[edit on 9/30/2004 by infinite8]

Chinese ZM-87 anti-personell blinding laser. Can blow out retinas up to 5,000 meters away. Weighs 78 pounds. Easy to use. Man-portable.


Data from the NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System database for the last two years provide examples of commercial flights in which the pilots suffered eye damage from lasers. These include aircraft landings at Honolulu, Las Vegas, Miami, New York, Los Angeles, and Phoenix. In Phoenix, one crew member was flashblinded, with resulting after-images and loss of night vision for about 1� hours. Takeoffs have also been affected: in a 737 outbound from Los Angeles, two pilots were struck by a blinding flash that lasted 5 to 10 seconds. The first officer had burns on the outer eye and broken blood vessels. In a flight from Cleveland, one crew member received a bright blue light in his right eye and experienced vision impairment for the next 1� hours. Data from the National Air Intelligence Center indicate that, in the U.S. alone, commercial lasers have caused over 50 blinding incidents. Lasers have also injured a number of Air Force personnel. For example, the Palace Casino�s laser show laser-illuminated a C-130 landing at Keesler AFB. The flight engineer, who was looking straight ahead, was blinded for 3 to 5 seconds and then experienced blurred vision. The next day, he experienced eye pain requiring eye drops. In April of this year, two Royal Canadian Air Force helicopter pilots were laser-illuminated from a Russian trawler during a routine mission.

Thats almost 3 miles in any direction. I could imagine this for many uses.

Originally posted by infinite8
Thats almost 3 miles in any direction. I could imagine this for many uses.

This thing was fielded in 1994. Imagine how much stronger they are now.

Here are 2 articles on what they have now, focus on the last line of story number 1, I will bold it.

----------------------------------------------------------------
arstechnica.com...
Command & Conquer laser weapons becoming reality
Posted August 30, 2004 @ 10:53 AM
by Ken "Caesar" Fisher

In recent real life tests, the US Army's Tactical High Energy Laser successfully shot down a series of mortar attacks using speed-of-light bursts to destroy the incoming targets.

The tests were conducted by the Army as part of the Mobile THEL (MTHEL) program. The MTHEL program is the responsibility of the SHORAD Project Office under the U.S. Army's Program Executive Office for Air, Space, and Missile Defense. The purpose of the MTHEL program is to develop and test the first mobile Directed Energy weapon system capable of detecting, tracking, engaging, and defeating Rockets/Artillery/Mortars (RAM), cruise missiles, short-range ballistic missiles, and unmanned aerial vehicles.

Earlier this year the technology also managed to knock out a missile flying faster and higher than previously capable, although challenges remain. While mobile, the lasers are still massive, and require tremendous power to operate; they are also understandably sensitive with regards to calibration. Nevertheless, the military is looking to lasers as a key defensive solution to both long-range missile attacks and short range, short travel time attacks such as those posed by mortars. The Air Force also tested a similar laser project this year, with one key difference: the laser was installed in a specially configured 747-400F.

========Story 2 ==== note: this story is almost a year old
www.cbsnews.com...
excerp:
Once fully developed, the Tribune reports, solid-state lasers could shoot down mortars and artillery shells, explode ordnance in enemy depots and even wipe out ballistic missiles 500 miles away. They would strike with incredible speed and could be retargeted instantly.


--------------------------------------------------------------

And as we have already seen, the Chinese are always making things smaller.

There seems to be a number of questions which arise from this:

1. If the plane was in mid-air how does a ground based system manage to target an area around 2 to 3 cm across inside a vehicle travelling between 200 to 600 KMH (not sure how fast a plane is on approach), I would find it hard to believe they could even see the eyes at that angle?

2. If the laser was in mid-air, mounted in another plane and firing at the target, how can you account for such accuracy when both vehicles are moving, and surely the other craft would show up on radar?

3. How would terrorists have access to such Hi-tech equipment, and not be detectable?

4. Are we sure the government is not targeting these occurences?

Originally posted by Koka
There seems to be a number of questions which arise from this:

1. If the plane was in mid-air how does a ground based system manage to target an area around 2 to 3 cm across inside a vehicle travelling between 200 to 600 KMH (not sure how fast a plane is on approach), I would find it hard to believe they could even see the eyes at that angle?

2. If the laser was in mid-air, mounted in another plane and firing at the target, how can you account for such accuracy when both vehicles are moving, and surely the other craft would show up on radar?

3. How would terrorists have access to such Hi-tech equipment, and not be detectable?

4. Are we sure the government is not targeting these occurences?

Lasers refract through the atmosphere. Their sphere of effect grows larger in relation to distance from their origin.

"Lasers have also injured a number of Air Force personnel. For example, the Palace Casino�s laser show laser-illuminated a C-130 landing at Keesler AFB."

While a laser can for example, burn woodchips at 1,500 meters, at 5,000 meters the light would be diffused too much to burn things, but would still be visible and could still have an effect on eyes.

Imagine for example you putting an aircraft in the sites of a gun and tracking it. At the right distance and angle, that's all you have to do to laze the aircraft and send laser light into the cockpit.

This all sounds pretty bad. Does any one know if the Gov, Faa is takeing counter meashers to protect the civilian air traffic?

Well that sort of answered some of the questions.

So, the laser they saw in the cockpit would not have been a point of light but more of a glow?

..and what about the radar and terrorist questions?

Originally posted by Koka
Well that sort of answered some of the questions.

So, the laser they saw in the cockpit would not have been a point of light but more of a glow?

..and what about the radar and terrorist questions?

You wouldn't have to shoot it from another plane. Basically if there's LOS from the cockpit to the ground within the effective range of the laser, laser light can entre the cockpit.

...and what about who's doing it, terrorists?

Not necessarily. Look at my post incident above. A spectacle laser from a lightshow in Las Vegas hit a C-130 and injured the vision of its crew.

The laser on an M1 Abrams for example used for range finding can blind people at long range. There have been many laser accidents hurting people's eyes lately as the use of lasers goes up.

It is one of two things...

1. Errant laser from a non-aggressive source as was the laser in Vegas. AS stated in an earlier post, technology is cheaper and easier to find and this could have been a mistake or prank gone wrong by college geeks.

2. Someone lit up that cockpit to test a range finding device. Terrorists have access to millions of dollars, and just about any weapon they want. it has been a great fear always that a few Stinger or Chinese/Russian made surface to air missles would be used. HOw many times has this happened in the past 3-6 months?

I had heard of a few similiar incidents of drivers being temporarily blinded or having burned retinas from the laser speed detection systems.
The authoritys at first denied that they could cause damage, but after some independant tests, they had found a high incidence of reflection off of vehicles hoods could redirect a laser directly into the line of sight...

I myself have had incidents of sudden "glare" blindness while driving, and wondered if I was just lased by a trooper...

The U.S. military has admitted to having lasers with such power and intensity that they can intercept and remove vollies of mortar rounds(MTHEL systems). This stuff sounds a good deal less sophisticated. These may be terrorists, but it sounds unlikely to me. I'd have to agree with it just being accidents or pranksters. These lasers are just far too weak to be taken seriously as a 21st century weapon. Lasers are used by a number of technologies these days.

Originally posted by Koka
There seems to be a number of questions which arise from this:

1. If the plane was in mid-air how does a ground based system manage to target an area around 2 to 3 cm across inside a vehicle travelling between 200 to 600 KMH (not sure how fast a plane is on approach), I would find it hard to believe they could even see the eyes at that angle?

There's a lot of high ground surrounding Salt Lake City. The place is surrounded by mountains, which would provide a lot of concealment for team of two or three. If a commercial jet were on approach, there would be plenty of time for someone to throw a laser beam at it.

I don't think they would have accuracy at range, so they were probably firing in the general direction and got lucky.

What I wonder is how big would the power pack have to be for that kind of weapon.

Anyone?

Maybe it was just some kids playing laser tag?








ON a more serious note I did a little searching on the Chinese ZM-87 laser and there seems to be evidence that N. Korea, and Pakistan have bought some. If Krazy Kim got his hands on one, who knows who he may have let borrow one to try and do god only knows what with it.

Here is a link to a good article about it:

www.icltd.org...



While I doubt it, it could have been the US military or even a private company testing/using laser technology and not realizing what effect they were having on a nearby plane.

Very interesting find. I knew blinding lasers were used in the military, but had no idea commercial pilots had to contend with this. On the one hand, a blinding laser would make the perfect terrorist weapon in that it leaves zero physical evidence. Unless contact is made with ground controllers describing the problem, any crash would probably be attributed to pilot error. On the other hand, an effective hit would be far from guaranteed, and unless both pilots are blinded, the plane could well go on to land safely. Still, at critical moments of take-off and landing, even a momentary disruption could be a serious problem. I could see terorists just giving it a try, figuring sooner or later they might succeed.

Some fuel for the fire:

Laser Blinding Weapon

Lasers Are Robber's Newest Weapon

Fighter Plane's Laser May Blind Civilians

Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons

www.washtimes.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">North Korea Fired Laser at Troops

Anti-Personnel Laser Weapons

Originally posted by esdad71
It is one of two things...

1. Errant laser from a non-aggressive source as was the laser in Vegas. AS stated in an earlier post, technology is cheaper and easier to find and this could have been a mistake or prank gone wrong by college geeks.

2. Someone lit up that cockpit to test a range finding device. Terrorists have access to millions of dollars, and just about any weapon they want. it has been a great fear always that a few Stinger or Chinese/Russian made surface to air missles would be used. HOw many times has this happened in the past 3-6 months?

Unfortunately there is one other possibility, one that has a distinct impact on this site.

There have been several incidents where individuals have tried to interfere with airplanes in flight. In one instance in Florida a few years back, some wacko use a full length mirror in his back yard to try and blind planes flying over his house. I don�t remember what his beef was, probably too much noise.

During the height of the chemtrail hoax, a few years back, there were a few individuals who posted threats against airplanes in flight.

Thus, there is the very real possibility that there is some self proclaimed �freedom fighter� nutjob out there who is convinced that that Delta flight is really a �Chemtrail Sprayplane.� Industrial lasers are not that hard to get a hold of.