It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
You can't cherry pick your context to justify creation. This is either something that is or isn't. And in this case, christianity is saying it's a certain way, which by default makes god responsible. (You can't have an all knowing god who didn't know the answer)
I think it is a version of God (the O.T.) presented by a priest class concerned with the perpetuation of the system they were connected to.
.... I see the value of the messages and knowledge inside of NT but I get dumbfounded as to how God could be the same within the OT and NT.. Did God evolve? Was the old hateful God defeated by a new and loving God? are there multiple Gods? or was God just bipolar?
We're on the brink of quantum computing yet we still have regressives that cling to iron age, supersticious woo.
Sadly, no matter the logic, reason, fact or evidence they're presented with, these individuals will continue to take an old fairy tale book at face value.
Hmmm, shall we choose proven scientific studies or contradictory tales written by ignorant sheep herders? It is near impossible for some of these fanatics to shake off years of indoctrination. These people WANT to believe. Plus, they are afraid of mythical punishments and too greedy for divine rewards to stop doing so. Keep believing your woowoo and keep being fleeced by the mega churches. With the availability of information nowadays, there is no excuse to continue willingly drowning in ignorance. By the way, devil's gonna getcha. Wooo!
Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by Murgatroid
I don't see a difference.
"You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."
Thanks for that, could you just give me a quick summary of the what the book is about please? Too see if I would be further interested...
God has mellowed. The God that most Americans worship occasionally gets upset about abortion and gay marriage, but he is a softy compared with the Yahweh of the Hebrew Bible. That was a warrior God, savagely tribal, deeply insecure about his status and willing to commit mass murder to show off his powers. But at least Yahweh had strong moral views, occasionally enlightened ones, about how the Israelites should behave. His hunter-gatherer ancestors, by contrast, were doofus gods. Morally clueless, they were often yelled at by their people and tended toward quirky obsessions. One thunder god would get mad if people combed their hair during a storm or watched dogs mate.
In his brilliant new book, “The Evolution of God,” Robert Wright tells the story of how God grew up. He starts with the deities of hunter-gatherer tribes, moves to those of chiefdoms and nations, then on to the polytheism of the early Israelites and the monotheism that followed, and then to the New Testament and the Koran, before finishing off with the modern multinational Gods of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Wright’s tone is reasoned and careful, even hesitant, throughout, and it is nice to read about issues like the morality of Christ and the meaning of jihad without getting the feeling that you are being shouted at. ....
Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by Snoopy1978
I think the real question, is where are all the divine messengers nowadays? Did god say to himself, "once computers are invented the people don't need my guidance"...
Is that it? We get some age old prophets a couple thousand years ago and god just has a long nap...
Where is modern Jesus?
Your avatar is a phoenix, am I right? Hoping it is not a self-immolating angel, I commend you on this choice. The phoenix will reduce itself to cinders and hatch itself out of the ashes anew. This shows a subconcious willingness on your part to keep an open mind and hopefully will transition from the realms of woo and fantasy to the firm ground of reality.
That said, you want examples of contradictions in the bible. Well, you have a bloodthristy, genocidal, narcissistic god being passed off as benevolent and "loving". The rest, which are MANY, you can google or actually open up your bible and read them by the truck load.
Also, you state of actual PROOF to the christian claim. What proofs are these? Would I be able to recreate these proofs by owning a four-leaf clover or having a black cat cross my path?
Are these tangible, verifyable facts we're talking about or do you have to "visualize them" in your soul/mind/thirdeye/whatever? By internal, cranial, visualization we are of course talking about imagination. Lets be honest here, we cant visualize with the hair on our big toe or inside an eyelash, for example.
So, if you are resorting to imaginative proof, then you're trying to sell fantasy as fact. I implore you to state objective evidence and not this "feels like" thing or third party anecdotes. Worst of all, dont start shooting bible verses as is the case of most christians. That is akin to saying the bible is correct because it is written in itself. Ridiculous. That's like someone attempting to sell a fake van gogh, but writing in small letters right on the painting that it is legit. How can you say fake if the painting says it is real? You get my point.
Anyhow, your story sound as if you were not truly an atheist in the classical sense which expects religion to back its claims by providing recreatable, certifiable evidence proven through the scientific method.
You seem as someone, faced by small and large scale sociopathic and animalistic human tendencies and actions, in need to believe in something beyond this and, more importantly, to belong to a higher state of conciousness be it real or not. Something or someone to liberate and take you away, or to the margin at least, of this cruelty and injustice.
Sadly, cruelty and injustice are here to stay while people remain people. You see, humans are as humans have been when it comes to basic instincts be it sloth, lust and violence stemmed from fear and greed. There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to humanity's inhumanity towards humans and their surrounding.
Fearing an imaginary god, wishful thinking to the point of hallucination or mercilessly beating your chest while feeling righteous will not change the human truth. Be it the romans, vikings, aztecs or whatever, humans will plunder the earth and the weak. Why? Because of the predatory, tribal nature that is latent within us, in varying degrees of course, but still there. Further, there are extreme cases and amongst these terrible predators are religious creators, enforcers and officials.
I hope you can accept that there is no divine justice as is evidenced by mere unchecked existance of the corrupt, genocidal entities you listed.
In the old testament, god destroyed two cities for corrupt practices. Why did he stop then? Was Sodom or Gomorrah any more despicable and bringer of desolation than DC, Las Vegas or, to pin point a place and make it easier for the all-mighty, Wall Street? Why would god choose to manifest himself periodically to an ancient supersticious culture which preferred the supernatural to quench the ignorance? Why, as humanity gain on scientific knowledge and questioned woo, does he hide now?
Anyway, I sincerely hope you can see that a world without religious woo delusion does not mean that existance is devoid of purposes or meaning.
The meaning of life is to achieve happiness without making others unhappy. All the time. Simple to read, but tricky to put in practice.