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US should return stolen land to Indian tribes, says United Nations

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posted on May, 5 2012 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by bluemirage5
 


Oh now that is a nice bit of information. Thanks for the link




posted on May, 5 2012 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by RealSpoke
The USA tells other countries what to do all the time. If they don't comply we invade them or set financial sanctions. See how it feels

edit on 4-5-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)


Your idea needs more meat. The US does not tell other countries what to do all the time. Our sanctions are a suggestion to other nations that such and such a country is treating its people unfairly and we should not support such injustices.
Come on people, you do know that the US's ideals are worthy dont you ? Lets stop thinking that we are the bad guys. We are not the bad guys, we try to set an example of a good way of doing things and we dont close our eyes when others are being treated unfairly or badly. How is this bad? We cant sit idolly by and watch this happen.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 08:46 AM
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Thing is that all nations who were colonised by Europeans - or any other wave of settlement, such as the Chinese policy of colonising minority areas to remove local identity - have a problem, don't they.

If the principle is that land should be "returned", then how far back do we go?

There are obvious example - the US and Australia, but only because the indigenous native populations are still around and given some legal status and provision, but what about other places.

For example, the whole of South America was colonised. Should the hypocritical Argentinean’s be compelled to return land they forcibly stolen from the natives in Patagonia a hundred years ago? Well, why not.

Let’s go a bit further back and we see the whole of Argentina was once owned by a bunch of people who are not really around anymore – not as a definable people, that is.

Over the last century, Brazil has wiped out and stolen the lands upon which myriad native tribes lived. Let’s give that lot back to them, for a start.

On and on.

Regards



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by karen61057

Originally posted by GLaDOS
See how it feels when someone tell you how to run YOUR country? Exact same thing the US has been doing to dozens of countries.


First off, we dont tell ANYONE how to run their country. We offer assistance and guidence and a very sound example of how to run things but we dont make anyone do anything they dont want to. That was the whole premise of this United States of America in the first place. Freedom to live and freedom to lead ourselves. A democracy may not be the ideal solution but its probably closest to it than most other forms of governance and it puts power equally in everyones hands.
I suppose you dont think the world would be better off if every country was run like this one ?

Did I just read a comedy novel?



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by neo96


I can't stand the UN and to sit there and dictate to the US what WE should be doing and it's not just this it's all the stupidity of the UN thinking they have the power to tell Americans what to do.



The UN is not dictating anything. It is a suggestion. There is a HUGE difference. Dictate implies they have legal authority to impose rule. They don't. It's a SUGGESTION. And not likely one the US will listen to.


Originally posted by neo96
That same :Un who didn't stop the ethnic cleansing in Africa,Darfur and other parts of the world.

How about the UN telling Australia to give back all the aboriginal lands?



The same UN who TRIED to stop ethnic cleansing but were unable to because they cant enforce that sort of thing without the consent of voting member nations.

You seem WOEFULLY unaware of how the UN actually works.


edit on 4-5-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)


There seem to be a lot of that going around.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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As I read thru this thread, a funny little outdoorsman/sportsman tale came to mind...

"When the white man came to this country, the native American men hunted, fished, sit around the fire, smoked weed and told stories...their women cooked and cleaned, wove textiles and took care of the children...and the white man thought he could improve on this system..."

I thought it was pretty clever....but maybe that's just me....

In all seriousness....no one can deny that rather crude and harsh things were done in the past...there is no "undoing" that which has been done.

"We need you to move"....then we found silver..."Oh we need you to move"....then we found gold..."Oh we need you to move"....then we found oil "Oh...we need you to move again"....then we found Uranium..."We need you to move one last time"....

It was not fair at all....but as another poster put it in rather blunt terms...to the conquerors go the spoils.... it is as it always has been....not to say it is right or pleasant...it is what it is.

I actually have no problem giving land to the Native Americans....I think we should give them a narrow band of land from the Great lakes to the Pacific ocean at the Canadian border...that way...as a Sovereign nation...they would have access to trade routes. I know this is a sore spot for A LOT of people that want to stick their fingers in their ears and go "la-la-la-la...I can't hear you"....but the truth be told...some restitution is not out of the question and not necessarily a bad thing.

I cannot blame the native Americans that still have heartburn with the white man....yes...it was a loooong time ago...but...we have done little to reconcile the differences....we say they are a nation within a nation....but we patrol and control everything they do.

Now granted....we did let them build some casinos and I was happy for them....they started making money and some tribes have done exceptionally well....but if you want to step back even further and look....they are not so different than anyone else...they "could" take their winfalls from their casinos to make the lives of all their brethren better...but guess what?...they don't....they are greedy and selfish just like us....

I hope we can make some effort to make amends for times past....I doubt it will happen but I honestly and truly wouldn't care if we did.

Makes me think of years back when their was a movement by African-americans to claim their 40 acres and a mule....I thought then..."if we honor that arrangement...we really owe the Native Americans something profound"

I am not a USA hater...I am a little disappointed in it right now for a plethora of reasons... but....this too will pass....My heritage....Scot-Irish....my families came here in the late 1700's and early 1800's. I can remember stories the elders told of fist fights on the docks for a days worth of work....ain't it grand?

Nothing ever said life is fair...no one ever said it would be easy...but...as we age and wisdom comes....we need to listen to it and heed to it's call....being fair and even handed can only yield good things later down the road....



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by Jagermeister
 


1/4 of my personal library is filled with many books on all the Native American, Canadian and South American tribes. Always had a facination of these people and their ancient cultural ways.

Are you aware the Native Americans original origins come from the ancient Steppe people? And the NZ Maori are closest cousins to the Native Americans outside of America - in particular ancient tribe from a Western part of South America......



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by KonquestAbySS
 


Honestly who the hell listens to what the US Government says?

North Korea doesn't,.
Iran Doesn't
Pakistan Doesn't
Israel Doesn't
Al Queda Doesn't

Hell i do not listen to what the government tells me to do.


Yeah, but the only place on the planet where your thoughts carry any weight and the only place you can get away with thinking your original own thoughts is here in the US. Go ahead and dis your govt if you live in North Korea and see what happens. You are lucky in that you dont have to listen to everything your Govt says because you live here in the US and have that right.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by karen61057

Originally posted by RealSpoke
The USA tells other countries what to do all the time. If they don't comply we invade them or set financial sanctions. See how it feels

edit on 4-5-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)


Your idea needs more meat. The US does not tell other countries what to do all the time. Our sanctions are a suggestion to other nations that such and such a country is treating its people unfairly and we should not support such injustices.
Come on people, you do know that the US's ideals are worthy dont you ? Lets stop thinking that we are the bad guys. We are not the bad guys, we try to set an example of a good way of doing things and we dont close our eyes when others are being treated unfairly or badly. How is this bad? We cant sit idolly by and watch this happen.


You know I could appreciate the righteous intervention on the grounds of human rights if the US actually did the same for it's own people. It's kinda like invading Libyia because it's Government reportedly shot it's own people while police officers fire tear gas and flash bangs into crowds of American protesters and throw them into the already world's largest prison system. See it's okay for the muslim nations to protest dictators that were put into power by the US, but somehow wrong to protest "officials" here at home that were put into power by big business and banks. I think there's a word for that (aside from hypocrisy)? Fascism maybe.
edit on 5-5-2012 by Jagermeister because: typos



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by CityFarmer
US territory is large. Why do you mind giving them some space?
You could have existed without killing them all you know.
America would just be a morally different place to live.

I agree though that UN should mind its own business but I guess minding others businesses is its reason to be.

Don't like UN? Blame U.S. president Roosevelt
(among others)

Peace



Who killed them all ? We didnt kill them all. There are still plenty of native americans. All they need to do is move off of the reservations and into the 'real' world and they would have jobs, and money and property but they dont. They stay on the reservations and get drunk and gamble and cry about the past. Get off your duff and do something. Thats what America really represents. Here on our soil. ( OUR SOIL)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by karen61057
 


What they need is money to invest for their future ON THE RESERVATIONS. Perhaps you need to go to South Dakota and get a real looksie as to whats really going on and it's not as simple as you realise!



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by karen61057
 


What they need is money to invest for their future ON THE RESERVATIONS. Perhaps you need to go to South Dakota and get a real looksie as to whats really going on and it's not as simple as you realise!


Sounds like a bunch of babies to me. Come slave your life away like the rest of us for a 30 year loan on a house you could have built yourself in 2 years until you get laid off and turn into an alcoholic and end up working at Burger King. But seriously, reservations? You want to live in the wild nobody is going to stop you. Take leave of chief ding dong's casino and walk into wild. Hunt buffalo. Put feather to hat and aboobooboo all the live long day. But please stop playing the victim already.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:07 AM
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I seriously doubt anyone will listen to me, because no one ever does. But I would just like for the record to announce this UN investigation has nothing to do with the Native American and everything to do with the UN. If people did not notice the leaders of this earth are having a bit of a spat right now, and the US wants to make certain she has the support of future actions concerning the halls in which the leaders of the earth decide our fate.(or their purses, all in the perspective)

Everyone has bought it, no one even questioning why in the same month they can both deride another country for disobeying the UN and have venomous speech toward UN involvement in America. The headline reads and the people decry.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:12 AM
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The idea of owning land is distinctly Western, so "returning" land to people who had no concept of land ownership still falls short if the aim is to make reparations for the oppression of these tribes. In my opinion the whole idea of land ownership should go to the way side, along with nationalistic and otherwise divisive ideologies. I would assert that the only land that can be "owned" is land that someone created, just like any other property, which pretty well narrows the justifiably-owned land to a few islands in Dubai.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by karen61057

Originally posted by CityFarmer
US territory is large. Why do you mind giving them some space?
You could have existed without killing them all you know.
America would just be a morally different place to live.

I agree though that UN should mind its own business but I guess minding others businesses is its reason to be.

Don't like UN? Blame U.S. president Roosevelt
(among others)

Peace



Who killed them all ? We didnt kill them all. There are still plenty of native americans. All they need to do is move off of the reservations and into the 'real' world and they would have jobs, and money and property but they dont. They stay on the reservations and get drunk and gamble and cry about the past. Get off your duff and do something. Thats what America really represents. Here on our soil. ( OUR SOIL)


That is not a fair thing to say. You are expecting every culture to merge and desire to be like us....that is not right. That is like saying it is ok for the People's Republic of China to wipe out the Tibetans...they don't agree with us so they must go....

Every culture has a value...even when it is not evident at the immediate moment....why do you think some monks in the 1500 and 1600's kept the Mayan texts....they recognized the value of a long lived culture....shame they didn't save more...but...they saved some.

Just because 'I win"....doesn't mean you are a total loser....you may have some things I can use....I can learn from...I can incorporate and make myself even better....why is this hard to understand? Yes...after germ warfare and biological weaponry....the Europeans decimated the native Americans....they didn't have a prayer....without small-pox...things might have went a completely different way...but we will never know and can only speculate.

I love the foundation of this country...I think it is the greatest experiment ever undertaken....and I am happy to be a part of it....I think we need to get diligent and fix a few things...but I don't think you throw the baby out with the bath water....I think we can do good things if we decide to do so...and restitution and fairness is not so bad a thing....



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by Jameela
I seriously doubt anyone will listen to me, because no one ever does. But I would just like for the record to announce this UN investigation has nothing to do with the Native American and everything to do with the UN. If people did not notice the leaders of this earth are having a bit of a spat right now, and the US wants to make certain she has the support of future actions concerning the halls in which the leaders of the earth decide our fate.(or their purses, all in the perspective)

Everyone has bought it, no one even questioning why in the same month they can both deride another country for disobeying the UN and have venomous speech toward UN involvement in America. The headline reads and the people decry.


Look this is very simple. There are people that are born to lead and people that are born to sheep. The problem is you have more sheep than wolves - by a large amount. Always have always will. So you can have things like an inbred German monarch on an English throne and the sheep won't say a word. Just like you can create a pope for a religion that was never supposed to have a religious leader. Or how you can create a union in a part of the world that used to house some of the most vicious populations on this planet. The sheep have been neutered. How else does Scottland become part of a United Kingdom? How does Rome become an Empire? Sheep will believe lies that are told to them. From the Pharaoh in Egypt stating to be a God to the German Queen on the English man's throne to Adolf Hitler openly commited genocide to the greatest Republic in the world turning into a police state. The sheep have spoken, as they always will and as they always do. This is why we'll never get off this planet. We will continue this cycle until some asteroid comes along and ...



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by LoonyConservative
 


Have you ever driven from coast to coast and from north to south? It was ALL theirs. And you think letting them have a few casinos is "evening it out"? No wonder we're in such deep doo doo.

What you don't seem to realize is that what all was taken from them is being taken from you by exactly the same kind of people: politicians and money junkies. We're all Indians now.



indeed we are brutha. a quote that we have among indigenous people is kind of relevant to this thread, "Sure you can trust the government, just ask an Indian"


most people here in America have very little knowledge of how sadistic, lying, immoral and corrupt our government has been for hundreds of years and now we're all in it together as "the people" of this turtle island verses the fascist government of this land.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


I guess the U.N. didn't get the memo? Stone age hunters found America before the Indians. So if anything, the Indians should be giving back the land they have stolen.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by karen61057

Who killed them all ? We didnt kill them all. There are still plenty of native americans. All they need to do is move off of the reservations and into the 'real' world and they would have jobs, and money and property but they dont. They stay on the reservations and get drunk and gamble and cry about the past. Get off your duff and do something. Thats what America really represents. Here on our soil. ( OUR SOIL)


You wonder why they don't get off the reservations? Well, it's because it's their land. They're not about to give it up.

You know why they stay on the reservations getting drunk, gambling? Because it's friggen easier to do that then to face reality.

I'm surprised no ones mentioned the residential schools, yet. Basically native American children were forced into boarding schools, where the native was beat out of them. It was more or less a cultural genocide. The residential schools are why they stay on the reservations getting drunk and gambling.

I know this because I'm Native. Full-blood by the way... I look it too. A few people in this thread were complaining about not having met a "real" native. Well now you have! (More or less...)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by fortified
 


Let's be serious. You don't want to go back to what the natives were doing when the Europeans showed up. If your people were given the land you wouldn't go back to hunter gatherer. I know this because nobody is stopping you now. You would sit there in casinos and get drunk like you do now. And whos to say gambling and drunk isn't good? I don't care what you do. But please stop with the "if we only had our land back" garbage because you know it's all bull. So please either come join the rest of the Americans slaving our lives away or go back to hunter gatherer.




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