Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

US should return stolen land to Indian tribes, says United Nations

page: 3
48
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join

posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:21 PM
link   
reply to post by stanguilles7
 


I did read the article, thank you. I guess I just did not absorb it. So the land is in Washington? Why in Washington when it seems to me that most of them are not there? More in the S. West is my understanding.

And along those lines, the report makes it sound as though these people cannot get jobs because of the loss of their land. It was a few generations ago, jeesh. Why are they living in a third world way when there is plenty of opportunity for them? Are they not able to get education on the reservations? If not, then why not?

Oh, I have so many questions simply because this is a whole new can of beans for me. I am trying to understand why these people are living in poverty ($7,000 a year income) and why the report makes it feel like Americans faults from years and years ago.


Anaya said that in nearly two weeks of visiting Indian reservations, indigenous communities in Alaska and Hawaii, and Native Americans now living in cities, he encountered people who suffered a history of dispossession of their lands and resources, the breakdown of their societies and "numerous instances of outright brutality, all grounded on racial discrimination"


I had no idea we had racial discrimination against the Indian people. I have Indian in my blood as I am sure that most American do. Why am I any different than these people just because I am not "full blooded"?


p.s. Do these people receive medical insurance? They can get scholarships and grants from the gov. so what is holding them back? I am not knocking them, just trying to see through their eyes.




posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:21 PM
link   
all tribal nations, some 500 or so recognized by the federal government, are sovereign nations. thus they have every right to counsel by the UN. i think it's hilarious that uncle sammy has to face some of his own pathetic music for a change. you know like the several hundred treaties broken, that were signed by presidents of the US, for nothing more than greed.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by tamusan
reply to post by stanguilles7
 




A specific group tasked with studying the issue has made a suggestion, which the US is free to ignore or follow.


It's troubling that the UN feels it has the authority to even study the issue. They should focus on the current injustices that are taking place the world over, or at least focus on something that happen after the creation of the UN.



They do several things at once. It's not like they will be exclusively investigating this issue. And it is and always has been a huge issue. There have always been major concerns about their plight but the media has always given it the Ron Paul treatment.

The very fact that we are part of the UN makes us a bit more accessible and cooperative. They are doing their job, plain and simple.

Now, with that whole UN investigation into the Zimmerman case... yeah, I thought that was a bit strange. The native tribes of North America are a collective group of stateless nations, however, and warrant global attention.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:23 PM
link   
reply to post by neo96
 


Settle down tiger......you're not wording your posts very succinctly.

On one hand I agree with you. The U.N. isn't very qualified to make this kind of call. The more global an entity is, the less qualified they are to make "local" judgement calls like this IMO. That, and I really don't know why they only visited Alaska and Hawaii. Those circumstances aren't very indicative of the problems the majority of the tribes face in the lower 48. Alaska especially. The relationship between the natives up there and the Government is different from anywhere else in the country for main fact that we didn't "take' Alaska from them. We bought it from Russia. Different kettle of fish there.

You might want to reference this article to get a better understanding of how all this is supposed to work:

thorpe.ou.edu...

This paragraph especially:

"The United States is trustee or guardian for the tribes. This role traces to the Supreme Court's opinion in Cherokee Nation v. Georgia, in which Chief Justice John Marshall wrote that the relationship of the tribes to the United States resembles that of a "ward to its guardian." Because of this role, the United States holds the underlying fee title to tribal lands in trust for the tribes. For this reason, they are styled "trust lands." The role of the United States as guardian or trustee has several consequences. When managing tribal or individual Indian property, the United States is held to a high standard of care. The tribal status as ward entitles tribes to sue officers of the United States when that standard of care is violated. In addition, because they are federal wards, tribes may seek United States assistance in litigating against states or private
parties. As the Supreme Court decided in United States v. Kagama, 118 U.S. 375 (1886), the guardianship responsibility also serves as an extra-constitutional source of authority for Congress to pass legislation affecting Indians."

In other words, the Government doesn't full out "own" the land in the traditional sense. I don't know if the U.N. fully understands the relationship or not. It's a trust fund on a very large scale. I'd like to see the exact wording of these agreements, but a land trust is basically set up to where one entity technically owns the land while another entity lives on it, manages it on their local level and, in this case, has it's own set of laws and constitution. The problem is, the U.S. isn't doing a very good job at overseeing all the real estate it owns and the ins and outs of a very complex legal relationship. If it were, the living, working and educational conditions of many of these tribes wouldn't be so deplorable. The Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota for instance has the highest rate of suicide per capita in the entire Western Hemisphere. The Western Hemisphere. And this happens on OUR Governments watch. The roles of the Government vs. the roles of the individual tribes can vary from state to state and tribe to tribe, so placing the finger of blame on exactly what is going wrong is very hard to do.

I just think people come at this from the wrong angle and that's why nothing ever gets accomplished. People choose to see our government as this big, evil entity that screws people over at every opportunity for their own gain. And in a way they are, but for the most part, people in Washington just don't know what they're doing. They're idiots, and people give them WAY too much credit when they say "They know exactly what they're doing".

Sorry, no they don't.

This is why when they are pressured to do something, they'll oblige, but they just have a way of not doing things right. It's like they have a knack for being incompetent. Or maybe they just don't care about something their forefathers gave them. Or maybe, just maybe, that's why they chose the career path they did....they just don't fit in with the rest of us. And this, I think, is the main reason why the Government and the tribes need to find a way to get the lands back to the respective tribes. Forget about what happened 200 years ago and making reparations for it. What happened happened. Get over it. Focus on the here and now and the fact that the Government is in over it's head when handling this amount of real estate under these conditions.

Personally, I don't know why they would want the job anyway.


edit on 4-5-2012 by Taupin Desciple because: Grammar



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by Doodle19815


And along those lines, the report makes it sound as though these people cannot get jobs because of the loss of their land. It was a few generations ago, jeesh. Why are they living in a third world way when there is plenty of opportunity for them? Are they not able to get education on the reservations? If not, then why not?

Oh, I have so many questions simply because this is a whole new can of beans for me. I am trying to understand why these people are living in poverty ($7,000 a year income) and why the report makes it feel like Americans faults from years and years ago.


Clearly you understand nothing about the issue. The specific issue you are referring to are lands which tribes hold legal right to, that the Federal Gov't has been giving mining rights, etc to outside companies. This, obviously, prevents these tribes from using the land for their own economic benefit.

You say you read the article, but apparently your reading comprehension is severely limited, because that is all discussed in the article.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:25 PM
link   
who cares what a created thing's ultimate goal is?

i think my computer and my dishwasher are plotting against my life.

when exactly should I begin to worry?



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:27 PM
link   
I just wish you anti-UN folks could at least spend the time to educate yourself about how the UN actually operates, so your criticisms of it could be reality-based. You dislike the UN. Great. Now, educate yourself about how they actually work and formulate an argument based on that, not fantasy. There is no challenge to US sovereignty anywhere in this issue



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by babybunnies
 


Like signing treaties that they couldn't read with an X and believing what they were told. Yeah, we know better than that, right? No fine print in the contracts WE sign, no siree.


Hey, Pirates did the same thing. You don't hear their ancestors complaining.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:35 PM
link   
and in a more conceptual manner...haven't people actually contemplated the ultimate nature of any form of government?

short answer: its a fence or wall and nothing more. it can't say anything. it is incapable of wanting anything.

how is it that people have become concerned about what an inanimate object says or wants?

its almost as if sentience is wasted on many people.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:38 PM
link   
reply to post by neo96
 





I can't stand the UN and to sit there and dictate to the US what WE should be doing and it's not just this it's all the stupidity of the UN thinking they have the power to tell Americans what to d


The UN is not telling the US what to do. The US signed up to this agreement in 2010 it established minimum basic rights for indigenous people globally and yes thats right even in the US. So yes the UN has the right to dictate to the US in this case. Its called an agreement.

Do you think it is correct that the endemic population are discriminated against. Dang you have had a long time to sort the problems out yourself and fallen short. If the problem cannot be sorted internally then yes the UN should intervene. Dang right that the US should not be above international law and regulation.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:38 PM
link   
reply to post by stanguilles7
 


Ok, I am going to step away from this one with my tail between my legs to do some research. I do honestly have to say though that I had no idea that this stuff was really going on.

I was more than a little shocked by the article and maybe my mind is only seeing the words that speak to me the most at the moment. Like I said, I have Indian in my blood also. In fact, I can get one of those neat little i.d. cards to prove it, but really why bother.

Should the U.N. in my opinion have a say about this.....I think they can give their OPINION just like everyone else.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:40 PM
link   
Seems to me that those brown native people of Pakistan,Yemen and Libya would have a more pressing need you know all those people getting blown up at the moment.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by neo96
Seems to me that those brown native people of Pakistan,Yemen and Libya would have a more pressing need you know all those people getting blown up at the moment.


So you think the UN should focus on ONE issue at a time?



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:43 PM
link   
reply to post by Cuervo
 


In my view, the problem is that reparations to Native Americans have not been equally distributed. I'm 1/4 Native American, and could likely benefit from some sort of UN enforced Native American land reclamation program.

There are many Native Americans who live without modern convenience. My wife is interested in Native American culture, and I've seen more than one reservation. Many Native Americans are indeed living in without modern convenience, but just as many are probably financially better off than myself.

One thing to think about is how many Native Americans choose not to be part of our modern society. My Native American grandfather lived in a modern house, while his parents chose to live in traditional earthen houses on the same propery. It's said that my great-grandmother never stepped foot into my grandfather home.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:44 PM
link   
"US Should return stolen land to Indian Tribes, says United Nations."

the next thread you begin OP will be telling us all how the Cup ran away with the Spoon.

why don't people think first before they write stuff down?



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:48 PM
link   
meh, throw 'em a bone

give them back the badlands



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:50 PM
link   


"US Should return stolen land to Indian Tribes, says United Nations."


Yep that's the topic




the next thread you begin OP will be telling us all how the Cup ran away with the Spoon. why don't people think first before they write stuff down?


And that is trolling.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by babybunnies

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by babybunnies
 


Like signing treaties that they couldn't read with an X and believing what they were told. Yeah, we know better than that, right? No fine print in the contracts WE sign, no siree.


Hey, Pirates did the same thing. You don't hear their ancestors complaining.


Ummm, nobody's ancestors are complaining much about anything, its the descendants who are tired of the BS.

I didn't know pirates made their victims sign treaties before taking their worldly goods and making them walk the plank. Learn something new everyday.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:55 PM
link   
U guys are the same people that wants a free tibet, talk about hypocrisy...


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 08:14 PM
link   
OK we took the land, but they can own casinos and we cant.. I think in the end it evens out. its not our fault the big kahunas in the casino don't give some money to the reservations.

This is the same thing as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson screaming about reparations and blaming people for slavery when nobody in this country who is alive today, owned a slave or took part in it in any way.






top topics



 
48
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join


Help ATS Recover with your Donation.
read more: Help ATS Recover With Your Contribution