US should return stolen land to Indian tribes, says United Nations

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by Jagermeister

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by Jagermeister

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by VI0811

Originally posted by Sinny
Haha..I'm reaaallllyyy gunna enjoy seeing America fall and crumble in 20 years time. Rember that and hold me to it, because it will happen

Anyway, give the indians some land back!! You selfish gits! They're right in what they say about the white man..WHITE MAN STOOOPID, WHITE MAN DESTRUCTIVE! Jeeze the indians are nice quiet neibors, give em what they deserve, the same can be said for anyone who has taken others landsm

FREE PALESTINE!

You have a lot of room to talk. Since your ancestors are part of the issue in question and your nation couldn't survive a day without the US.

Yes the Britain was part of the issue. That stopped in 1783 when the 13 Colonies gained independence. With independence comes responsibility. You wanted to break away from Britain so you live with the consequences.
The UK couldn't survive a day without theUS? I love people like you with your arrogance. How long has Britain been around? About 3,500 years. How long has the US been around? About 250 years. We did and are doing fine without you thanks

I wouldn't call being occupied by a foreign empire doing fine. I wouldn't call having your ruler overthrown by a foreign power doing fine (more than once if I remember correctly). I wouldn't call endless domestic and global war doing fine either. And I certainly wouldn't call the royal navy losing to those 13 colonies not once, but twice and then handing over their status as an empire to those very colonies "doing fine".

The whore daughter of the Roman Empire, as it should be rightly called, has not had it so easy.

edit on 5-5-2012 by Jagermeister because: (no reason given)

Are you on drugs?

Oh do we not know our own history?

I know the history of my country very well thank you. Obviously you don't. But hey, your a Yank so what else should i expect

And which part is inaccurate?

reply to post by babybunnies


Kind of ignorant? For starters, the totality of Native tribes on this continent hardly spoke one for the other. If the shoe were on the other foot, it would be like the Aztecs or Cherokee landing in Portugal, annihilating the native tribes of the Iberian Peninsula, France and Ireland and making treaties with the Germanic Tribes about Italian, Greek, Baltic, Scandinavian, Slavic and Hungarian lands.

And, we of course know that if the Indians didn't "sell" their lands, there would have been no argument to the contrary. It's not as if the Gadsden purchase not going through would have prevented the US from taking it by force; Do you think Louisiana would have remained French if they didn't want to sell it?

As far as the UN's action/commentary: well, there are plenty of native tribes still around and I don't think it's a particularly big issue to restore land rights. We're not talking taking away my house or my friend's house, we're talking transferring government owned lands that are fallow or misused or underused for this, that or the other thing of little consequence to our nation, like weapons testing and national parks. I don't think it should take a UN resolution to come to this conclusion, I would have thought a simple understanding could have been met centuries ago.

Then again, genocide was the norm until it became un-PC. Now you can still practice it, but it has to be a kinder, gentler genocide - the kind that's even slower and more painful.

Um... all of human history is warring, killing, conquering, migrating and assimilating. Sure, if you want to take the argument back to neolithic times, then nobody is really "native". Yes, I know... all cultures have been victimized and have also had a turn at being the aggressor. But that's not really what we're talking about here, is it?

The main point here is simply... In 5,000 or so years of human civilization... in the United States of America we claim to uphold the values of freedom, equality, justice for all, etc. We DO have a higher standard of how to treat our fellow human beings. There is no question that there was a deliberate, systematic policy by the United States of America to destroy the Native Americans and their way of life. While it would be hard to find anyone (except perhaps on ATS) who still thinks this policy was/is a good idea, the fact of the matter is, the effect of these policies has had far reaching consequences for the Natives of today.

This is 2012, and we're not governed by Genghis Khan. Our Pledge of Allegiance does not contain the words "F*ck 'em all." We are a nation of laws. But as it concerns the Natives and their relationship to the U.S. Government, that trust has long been broken. The truth is, Native Americans have never been treated equally or fairly by the law, and many tribes continue to suffer greatly from neglect or outright abuse of their lands at the hands of the same government who goes about the world spreading "freedom and democracy." So this discussion should really be about hypocrisy.

Does the UN have the right to suggest a means of compromise between the U.S. Government and the various Native American tribes in order to forward better relations? Absolutely. After all, did not the U.S. play a primary role in the creation of the UN? Do we not pressure, persuade and coerce the UN into action when it suits our needs? Are you seriously worried that UN is going to force the U.S. to return all its land to the Native Americans? And then what, the Natives are gonna make you leave? Really, you can go live on a reservation if you want to right now. They don't restrict YOU or tell you where you can and cannot live. Sorry, but nobody chooses abhorrent poverty. The ignorance in this thread is astonishing.

reply to post by Jagermeister


You should be asking which part is "Accurate" In a word......none

Don't wanna read through 50 pages of he said, she said but....
Is there any link to any UN resolution or some official piece of info in this here?

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

That was kinda my point.

As neo pointed out all ready, he never demanded anyone "get the hell out", and as he said, "people read what they want". Further, your "kinda" point is still far to ambiguous to be taken as anything other than a bad joke, at best. If there were a silly little emoticon that could actually demonstrate an eye roll that truly represented the weariness and wariness brought on by some "facetious" remarks, I'd post it.

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by Jagermeister

 

You should be asking which part is "Accurate" In a word......none

So Julius Caesar never crossed over to Britian failing his initial invasion and bringing your leaders to Rome during his second? William the conqueror, or dare I say the bastard, never took over your country? You have never been at war with France? Your Queen isn't of German blood? You didn't lose twice to the American colonies? Your status of "empire" wasn't all but revoked after ww2? Need I really continue...?

Originally posted by TheGrandWarlock
everyone wants to own the world

when will people listen to the earht and realize we are all living in the same planet.

this land is your land, this land is my land
From California, to the New York Island
From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for you and me... okay so now lets all get naked and have an orgy

heck yeah!!!

but the hippies screwed it up for the rest of us... somewhere along the way they went on some giant guilt trip (possibly from all those drugs which frees the mind ya know) and the rest of the population, which here in America is multinational (something they still can not grasp) hs to deal with until they are dead and gone!

I would like to sign up for martyrdom... can I do that here in this thread? I will die for the sins of the face of the multitudes that make up America, no problemo... The UN can't run crap and I wonder what the British were doing while the Native Americans were frolicking thru the forest and also what the Spaniards were upto during that time?

In all actuality the Native Americans should be glad the Founders of the United States broke from Great Britain... and to think the Brits actually tricked them at one point during the wars with England.

the greatest and final solution is if all peoples of the planet who are not indigenous peoples should just commit suicide! this hugging tree crap and laying guilt trips on people who were not even there man is rather old, we're never going to move forward to that global orgy! (though some already have who live in the states and it's population centers ) The majority of us here in ATS also never experienced the civil rights era either and pretty much thought we were beyond all that crap because we used to hold hands in school and sing songs (all of us) just like the hippies taught us.

I guess they are going back on all that now? being Obama won the presidency via the racism card...

I wanna be martyred, I don't wanna just kill myself from guilt... I'd like to die for the sins of dead men who were actually alot cooler than some others we could all be living under at this time (such as the British)

Originally posted by Jagermeister

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by Jagermeister

 

You should be asking which part is "Accurate" In a word......none

So Julius Caesar never crossed over to Britian failing his initial invasion and bringing your leaders to Rome during his second? William the conqueror, or dare I say the bastard, never took over your country? You have never been at war with France? Your Queen isn't of German blood? You didn't lose twice to the American colonies? Your status of "empire" wasn't all but revoked after ww2? Need I really continue...?

Here are a couple of things you need to read up on:-

!) Queen Elizabeth II mother is a Scot:-

en.wikipedia.org...

That may give you a clue that she is not German.

2) The War of 1812 (Which i think you are referring to and when we burnt the White House to the ground) was not won by the Yanks:-

en.wikipedia.org...

I only debate with people with sense.....you have very little if any at all

Originally posted by RealSpoke
The USA tells other countries what to do all the time. If they don't comply we invade them or set financial sanctions. See how it feels

Doesn't matter anyways, the UN is spineless....

I'm sure we can find indigenous people all over the world that were move aside...I would bet EVERY border in the world was created by non-indigenous groups winning battles or just taking over the area by force.

I guess we can say that Kenya owns the world since that is where everyone started from...hehe

I like how this is in US politic madness.

And then every American poster seems to say that the UK should give "back" the Falklands to Argentina.

Brilliant.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by frazzle

 

Then why did you react so much when I talked about getting water from wells and and having to make our own candles? The one thing about our life which is harder in my view is navigating all the demands for licenses and fees for this and that, and the wild goose chase TPTB have us on all the time. Not a day goes by I don't have to think about something which has to do with the artificial life they created for us with our (grudging) permission.
I will say that I don't want to see our rivers and lakes turn to sludge any more than the next person.

I guess I reacted the way I did because Indians didn't live in sod huts and wooden houses ~ well at least not until after the buffalo were almost extinct. And they didn't write the treaties or even really understand what they said.

But what you've brought up about life being artificial is really important. I'm not sure how to put it in words, but I think your complaint relates to our obsessive need to have everything in writing. The indigenous peoples didn't have mortgages on their tipis or insurance on their horses. They didn't have to be licensed, bonded and insured to build whatever they could dream up, they didn't get slips of paper saying they were now master hunters, they just hunted. They didn't need permits or a million other documents to prove or approve anything.

But then the US wrote up some papers stating the land belonged to the government and just like that ~ it suddenly did! And freedom for everyone has been taking a back seat to paperwork ever since (actually since before then), until everyone on earth must live and die by a gazillion words written on another gazillion pieces of paper (or in obscure data bases) that even the people who sign them into law don't read or understand.

That was probaby a pitiful attempt to get across what I mean, but hopefully youll get the gist of it.

As many ATS members have commented: The American Indian community are not asking, the U.N. are starting to pressure the U.S. govt. . . And rightfully so.

While the world in the last 10+yrs have been focused on the Middle East. The American Indian community have been pumping out attorneys & they're returning to Indian Country and lately been handing the U.S. govt their hat in regards to American Indian affairs. By playing their own 'legal game.'

Ponder this: How many non-Indians actually go to Harvard, Stanford, or any other prestige university so they can learn 'Indian Law?' Is that course being offered at universities? I don't think so.

For those that don't know, there are all-American Indian colleges throughout the U.S. And many of them specialize in 'Indian Law.' Expect to see more of these stories and listen to people like Jager & Dayve still seem shocked that we're not asking for handouts INSTEAD we're arming ourselves intellectually. . .

In order to prove this point, read a short excerpt from Neo96's linked article:

Last month, the US justice and interior departments announced a $1 billion settlement over nearly 56 million acres of Indian land held in trust by Washington but exploited by commercial interests for timber, farming, mining and other uses with little benefit to the tribes.

Neo96 Link

To further my point, read down below. . . Seems like nobody wants to comment on this piece.

Originally posted by JWash
Perhaps the Cobell Settlement has a connection to this topic. . .


Cobell claimed in her suit that the federal government failed to provide a historical account for Individual Indian Money accounts, money the feds held in trust for Native American landowners in exchange for leasing tribal land. The government either mismanaged the deposits in those accounts or failed altogether to deposit money – royalties for oil, gas, grazing and other leases – owed to tribal members, Cobell said.

The settlement also includes $1.9 billion for the Department of Interior to purchase checkerboard land and return it to tribes as well as up to $60 million for scholarships.

“The Obama administration is continuing to move forward on its agenda to honorably and responsibly address long-standing injustices in Indian Country,” said Interior Secretary Ken Salazar in a statement.

Rez News


The Claims Resolution Act of 2010 is a direct result of the settlement that bears her name. It is proof of an enduring American idea – that change is always possible.

IndianTrust.com
The Claims Resolution Act of 2010

The woman who lead this settlement was: Eloise Cobell, member & treasurer of the Blackfeet Nation from Montana. The settlement is for 3.4 Billion. However, its estimated at a much higher value, approx 50+Billion. But the U.S. govt would 'play ball' around 4 Billion.

The Indian Trust link I provided will answer alot of questions/concerns, in regards to the Cobell Settlement.


I'm going to go off-topic to address an issue:
Jagermeister & dayve how are ATS members supposed to take you serious in American Indian affairs when you're avatars reflect alcohol & nose candy?

If you two or any other members want to express your displeasure w/ the American Indian community perhaps you should start a thread in the "Rant" section. This is a thread about legalities that the U.S. are now being held accountable through Legal paperwork & court systems.

*My apologies to the other ATS members who were interested in this topic & who were staying on topic.

reply to post by OneEleven


Of course you have to resort to vicious name calling and inflammatory rhetoric. What do you think I have fallen for exactly?
I have said I do not trust the UN for anything at all.
Maybe you are the uneducated one, as you seem to have fallen for all the environmentalist propaganda. Would you like to have an open discussion about the UN Agenda 21 and their "sustainability" programs? I tell you what, you research it and get back to me. Having an emotional knee jerk reaction is not going to change a thing. It has been my experience that many unaware individuals think they are supporting this or that altruistic goal, but do not realize they have been hoodwinked by a bunch of self-serving globalists and Marxist redistributionists. The entire goal of UN Agenda 21 is to strip all the people of private property and the right to use the land. I am sooooo sorry your reaction is to just name call with your little altruistic purity.
Meanwhile here is my first attempt at educating you about the REAL goals of the UN.

sites.google.com...

www.crossroad.to...


Considering the huge plan for controlling human populations at the level of Global Governance, I pity you and people like you who "buy into" the Globalist plans thinking you are so concerned about the welfare of others.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by RealSpoke
The USA tells other countries what to do all the time. If they don't comply we invade them or set financial sanctions. See how it feels

Doesn't matter anyways, the UN is spineless....

I'm sure we can find indigenous people all over the world that were move aside...I would bet EVERY border in the world was created by non-indigenous groups winning battles or just taking over the area by force.

I guess we can say that Kenya owns the world since that is where everyone started from...hehe

this is incorrect... tribal populations always had borders and still do, one only needs to look to Africa for an up to date model.

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by Jagermeister

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by Jagermeister

 

You should be asking which part is "Accurate" In a word......none

So Julius Caesar never crossed over to Britian failing his initial invasion and bringing your leaders to Rome during his second? William the conqueror, or dare I say the bastard, never took over your country? You have never been at war with France? Your Queen isn't of German blood? You didn't lose twice to the American colonies? Your status of "empire" wasn't all but revoked after ww2? Need I really continue...?

Here are a couple of things you need to read up on:-

!) Queen Elizabeth II mother is a Scot:-

en.wikipedia.org...

That may give you a clue that she is not German.

en.wikipedia.org...

2) The War of 1812 (Which i think you are referring to and when we burnt the White House to the ground) was not won by the Yanks:-

en.wikipedia.org...

I only debate with people with sense.....you have very little if any at all

I'm not going to argue over the specifics of the war in question considering that brits are told they won and americans are told they won, but I think it's safe to say that we atleast won the war that mattered. But we can talk about more fun with Roman conquests or the constant wars between your own people if you'd like? Or is all the rest just made up?

reply to post by Jagermeister


of course we won! just look at our bad selfs...

look at America and all it's accomplishments.... look at those French crying in the streets and the British crapping in their pants during WW2.

Mighty Mouse has come back to save the day on more than one occasion including the Dictators we've overthrown since then.

we'll always be the bad guys though... it's called snobby jealousy!

Originally posted by Xadaz
I like how this is in US politic madness.

And then every American poster seems to say that the UK should give "back" the Falklands to Argentina.

Brilliant.

I'd start by giving back the 3 Kingdoms that were stolen to your own people.

Originally posted by Jagermeister

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by Jagermeister

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by Jagermeister

 

You should be asking which part is "Accurate" In a word......none

So Julius Caesar never crossed over to Britian failing his initial invasion and bringing your leaders to Rome during his second? William the conqueror, or dare I say the bastard, never took over your country? You have never been at war with France? Your Queen isn't of German blood? You didn't lose twice to the American colonies? Your status of "empire" wasn't all but revoked after ww2? Need I really continue...?

Here are a couple of things you need to read up on:-

!) Queen Elizabeth II mother is a Scot:-

en.wikipedia.org...

That may give you a clue that she is not German.

en.wikipedia.org...

2) The War of 1812 (Which i think you are referring to and when we burnt the White House to the ground) was not won by the Yanks:-

en.wikipedia.org...

I only debate with people with sense.....you have very little if any at all

I'm not going to argue over the specifics of the war in question considering that brits are told they won and americans are told they won, but I think it's safe to say that we atleast won the war that mattered. But we can talk about more fun with Roman conquests or the constant wars between your own people if you'd like? Or is all the rest just made up?

I am a Scot. The Roman Empire never invaded Scotland. You may not have heard about this from your lack of knowledge:-

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Xadaz
I like how this is in US politic madness.

And then every American poster seems to say that the UK should give "back" the Falklands to Argentina.

Brilliant.

this is liberalism at its finest... I shouldn't have even participated in this thread, but we all know natives of all continents are savages! one only needs to ask the Brits about that.

Britain has been trying to civilize the natives since before America was even a concept... I myself am anti-colonialist, America kicked the brits butts long ago, that's our story.

though the sun has set on their Empire which they thought never would...

God save the Queen!