US should return stolen land to Indian tribes, says United Nations

Originally posted by OneEleven

Originally posted by Doodle19815
How would they thrive and prosper in this deal? And why are there so many unemployed Indians? Why can't they get jobs?

The same way they prospered for 12,000 years without 'deals' ... You've become so disconnected that you think you NEED a deal and a job. You've fallen for the snare.

Why can't they get jobs? What is a job? This is all a setup. We were never meant to have 'jobs'. For 12,000 years we would hunt and grow our own foods. We raised our families with the help of our families. We had a system of government BEFORE deals were struck. A system of government that allowed every man to be free. Not 'free' as in the United States version of freedom, but actually FREE.

Jobs. smh. For what? For WHO? Who benefits from your 'job'? Is this how you characterize another human being? By what 'job' they are able to get?

I for one am PROUD of those who still refuse to assimilate after hundreds of years. It feels wrong all the way down to one's SOUL.

My own nationality is split from between the Ocmulgee Creek tribe, and the Scottish immigrants that assimilated into those tribes throughout the southeastern United States. In fact, the chief of my tribe is still a McIntosh, and has been for a few hundred years.

This is a very touchy subject for me.

Yeah well we dont hunt for our food any longer. Those days went the way of the Conastoga wagon. You want to go back to the old world where there were no lights no electricity no modern conveniences just because it worked for 12,000 years? Modern times is a very small fraction of the time that man has occupied this planet. Yes man survived those times but life expectancy was much shorter, life was much harder. We used to live in caves. Do you think we should go back to that because modern life is too hard ? Not me. I think its useless to go backwards. Failure to assimilate is failure to grow. Mankind is a forward moving creature. A manipulator of his environment. entrophy is death

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes

Originally posted by Damrod
reply to post by OneEleven

 

Fascinating...and well said by the way. My family is Scot-Irish and yes....the Scots can be very 'tribal"....we called them clans but not much different than tribes....it's all about community and sticking together to overcome a challenge or threat....we really could stand to learn a lot about those principles today.....

but....there isn't much profit in propagating a clan or an ideal....so...why bother....(end sarcasm)

I get such a hoot out of the folks on this thread that a thread or two over...a day or two ago....were all about crushing the oppressive government....stopping the "nation building" and bringing the troops home....but when they are suddenly having to ask themselves questions about the very foundation of what we are fighting about....they get kinda funny.....denial is a wonderful place....I hear the summers in Cairo are sweltering though....

thanks for sharing this
i was over there in the land of the scots and loved the mentality
and as it turned out, i also liked Haggis ;-)
next time i try to visit the highlands as well

Well thank you! My "clan" has stuck together for generations...we always find a way to get together at least once a year.

Haggis....lol!...sheep lungs, liver and heart....little oatmeal, onion and lots of spices!,,,can't go wrong!

One thing I will say....you will not starve around a Scotsman or an Irishman....they may not have much but they are always happy to share what they do have...Scotland...the land of thistle and stone...not a everbearing fruit basket but there is always a means to survive.....just to spite those that would rather you didn't....

apparently the united nations has never been to oklahoma.

ah, what am i saying....lets keep it that way.

reply to post by pierregustavetoutant


I guess we just give this all back to Neanderthal then. If you can find one.

reply to post by Damrod


Right up until the oatmeal part. You had me but lost me with that addition. Organ meats with onions, spices, yum. Throw in cattle food and I'm outa here.

reply to post by karen61057


Yep I agree on that. If they indeed have real opportunities and spit on them then shame on natives.
Or maybe they're just happy the way they live now and don't really need crappy McDonald's jobs, houses credits and greasy foods? Don't know.

I just thought the OP views and some others were a tiny bit radicals and disrespectful. Especially when their beloved country supports the return of a holy land to a certain holy population. Which by the way was there 2000 years ago and not 200 like in the native american case.
So how's that really different beyond the fact that it does not imply US house but brown middle east people houses? I'm waiting for a constructive answer to that. Not a fanatical holy diatribe.

Peace

Originally posted by Auricom
reply to post by neo96

 

I guess the U.N. didn't get the memo? Stone age hunters found America before the Indians. So if anything, the Indians should be giving back the land they have stolen.

yes but they failed to colonize it, guess you didn't get that memo.

Originally posted by JBRiddle
What we American did to the natives population was wrong. Pushing people on to reservations to die is a horrible thing. We should have take a page out of Romes play book and Romanized them. I say do away with the reservations, and the Bureau of Indian Affairs and make all the native peoples Americans once and for all.

Sure it might be seen as the white man disregarding treaties with the native populations (which it would be), but this would be the last and finial time. After this time there will be no more tribes on reservations just Americans.

What if people on the reservations don't want to be assimilated or Americanized? That's already been tried as far back as the 1950s, which was called "homogenization" and "removal and termination". Children were abducted and forced into American schools as far back as the 1800s for that same purpose and others left out of need and became sort of an underclass in the cities because nobody really wanted them there or treated them equally. Many have gone to college and gotten their degrees and ended up going back to their reservations because living in their own culture is important to them. Ben Nighthorse Campbell became a US representative from Colorado. There is no one size fits all.

If you're interested in what was tried in the past and why it failed, www.museumca.org...

This is so dumb, I thought ATS was better than this (Not singling out everyone btw, just a large amount of comments I've read so far)

Members all seem to be saying 'yea well your country should give their land back too!' and acting as if ATS members all support their governments and all their decisions past and present! I think everyone here agrees that the land was un justly taken and the deals made were not democratic ie - the deals made can not be considered consensual as I highly doubt all Native Americans understood or were explained the scope of the deals. Also the deals were made in many cases with over hanging threats of continued war.

Do I think the UN are right in saying this? Hell no! The UN is a total oke and invade nations all over the world and their soldiers have a terrible record of abuses including organised criminal activity! But at the same time it's very hard to say the native Americans did not have land forcibly taken from them though.

I think it's sad rthat when say a Canadian member makes a point other members set on them saying 'well why don't Canada give their land back then also huh!?'. Well that member probably feels the same about that issue as well! Why is everyone so quick to point the finger everywhere but at themselves? Why do people get so defensive and attack attack attack so blindly making assumptions?

Sorry I'm rambling now, just I am annoyed at this tit for tat arguing that's going on.

Haha..I'm reaaallllyyy gunna enjoy seeing America fall and crumble in 20 years time. Rember that and hold me to it, because it will happen

Anyway, give the indians some land back!! You selfish gits! They're right in what they say about the white man..WHITE MAN STOOOPID, WHITE MAN DESTRUCTIVE! Jeeze the indians are nice quiet neibors, give em what they deserve, the same can be said for anyone who has taken others landsm

FREE PALESTINE!

reply to post by neo96


Ummm, I hate to burst your bubble, but the UN can tell the US to do what ever they want. The united states as much as the citizens with in it like to think so, is not in charge of anyone but themselves, and the UN is above that. Ha ha, so really if they tell you to do something you kind of have to, or risk the UN and any or all of the modern nations that are part of it using sanctions and as a last resort military action. Again, not to burst your bubble, the only modern army your nation ever faced was in WW2, and you took a pretty good wallop. IT was Germany Vs the world, and it damn near took the whole world to stop them! Not once since, has an american faced an equal foe. I'm thinking you will very soon though, It's going to be really sad but it's inevitable.

reply to post by neo96



Really ? Not going to happen. Whats done is done. If that's the case. Then the Europeans need to make amends for their crap as well. Spain, and their conquests. Really ? England and their conquests. France, Russia, Germany, the list goes on and on and on. We can debate the horrors of nations and man til whenever. You need to grow up. The past is what it is. Learn from it pal, and make a future where we ALL go forward together ...

Originally posted by Sinny
Haha..I'm reaaallllyyy gunna enjoy seeing America fall and crumble in 20 years time. Rember that and hold me to it, because it will happen

Anyway, give the indians some land back!! You selfish gits! They're right in what they say about the white man..WHITE MAN STOOOPID, WHITE MAN DESTRUCTIVE! Jeeze the indians are nice quiet neibors, give em what they deserve, the same can be said for anyone who has taken others landsm

FREE PALESTINE!

You have a lot of room to talk. Since your ancestors are part of the issue in question and your nation couldn't survive a day without the US.

reply to post by Azdraik


Azdraik: Do you have any idea how far back you can take this crap? Every country and race in this world would owe something to someone.

We do. Human decency and mutual respect. IOW, to treat others as we would like to be treated.

Originally posted by Ilyich
reply to post by neo96

 

Ummm, I hate to burst your bubble, but the UN can tell the US to do what ever they want. The united states as much as the citizens with in it like to think so, is not in charge of anyone but themselves, and the UN is above that. Ha ha, so really if they tell you to do something you kind of have to, or risk the UN and any or all of the modern nations that are part of it using sanctions and as a last resort military action. Again, not to burst your bubble, the only modern army your nation ever faced was in WW2, and you took a pretty good wallop. IT was Germany Vs the world, and it damn near took the whole world to stop them! Not once since, has an american faced an equal foe. I'm thinking you will very soon though, It's going to be really sad but it's inevitable.

wait-wait-wait.

Though I had a sympathetic ear to this conversation and was willing to entertain it based on my own family history from another land in another time....you are silly.

The USA spends more on defense than all other countries "combined"...wanna go toe to toe?....you will lose....There are no countries...or coalition of countries that could stand against the USA....the world knows this....much to our dismay....no one is going to step up....they know better....

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


well there goes my shot at mating.
and i want you to know sir, that i may be fat and ugly, BUT I DO HAVE FEELING! *sob*

okay no i dont, im dead inside,


anyway, yes its not like the UN is forcing them to give the land back, i mean, its amurrica, they're the gods of this world

and i kind of agree, why should they pay the price for something their ancestors did, and btw this isnt the first time land is taken from a group of people. that happened all over the world.

Perhaps the Cobell Settlement has a connection to this topic. . .

Cobell claimed in her suit that the federal government failed to provide a historical account for Individual Indian Money accounts, money the feds held in trust for Native American landowners in exchange for leasing tribal land. The government either mismanaged the deposits in those accounts or failed altogether to deposit money – royalties for oil, gas, grazing and other leases – owed to tribal members, Cobell said.

The settlement also includes $1.9 billion for the Department of Interior to purchase checkerboard land and return it to tribes as well as up to $60 million for scholarships.

“The Obama administration is continuing to move forward on its agenda to honorably and responsibly address long-standing injustices in Indian Country,” said Interior Secretary Ken Salazar in a statement.

Rez News

The Claims Resolution Act of 2010 is a direct result of the settlement that bears her name. It is proof of an enduring American idea – that change is always possible.

IndianTrust.com
The Claims Resolution Act of 2010

The woman who lead this settlement was: Eloise Cobell, member & treasurer of the Blackfeet Nation from Montana. The settlement is for 3.4 Billion. However, its estimated at a much higher value, approx 50+Billion. But the U.S. govt would 'play ball' around 4 Billion.

The Indian Trust link I provided will answer alot of questions/concerns, in regards to the Cobell Settlement.

am i missing something here?

are there still existing tribes that were not dolled out land during the dawes rolls?

i thought the grand majority were given land and made soveriegn/autonomous.

some have even petitioned for international recognition (i.e the "lakota nation" sioux)

reply to post by abecedarian

That's the first thing I thought of when I saw this. They can give their NY HQ to Native Americans so it can become a casino.

reply to post by VI0811


Lol! I'm not held accountable for what "my ancestors" done. I'm Irish anyway so your barking up the wrong tree.

Again with the whole "England would fall without America" purrrrleeaaasee grow up. England conquered half the world before America existed, and WE created America, so your argument is void thank you very much,