My reasons for thinking WTC7 was probably a controlled demolition!

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
reply to post by Whaler31

 

Why were the insurers happy to pay out and then take part in a cover up? And why did Silverstein admit to the conspiracy in an interview? Is he an idiot?

Because he's in "The Club". When you're in "The Club" you can't be touched. Larry was letting his "Club" friends know that he'd better get his money or some other stuff might "slip".

This is a conspiracy among a relatively small faction of the Power Elite. The evidence clearly indicates that. And yet you're trying to make honest truth-seeking people look stupid because they don't know what arrangements these clowns had or how they were dealing with each other behind the scenes when things didn't go exactly according to plan?

Same crap, different day with you.

edit on 7-5-2012 by SimontheMagus because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-5-2012 by SimontheMagus because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-5-2012 by SimontheMagus because: (no reason given)

Your constant aggression and rudeness is striking. And particularly amusing given that you're the first to whine about people being mean to you

I'm not asking you to give me an exact rundown of how your imagined power elite interacts. I'm merely suggesting you try to account for it in some manner that's not completely illogical.

Take your first paragraph. It doesn't even make sense within itself. How can a "Club" member be untouchable yet simultaneously be blackmailed by another member? That means they are 'touchable' doesn't it?

Even if one allows your totally unfounded flights of fancy to be taken as fact your reasoning still doesn't even make sense in and of itself.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
Who are these people and what right do the have to disrupt debate?

So anyone pointing out the sillyness of your conspiracy theory is "disrupting debate"....

You just cannot handle the truth!

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
I'm not asking you to give me an exact rundown of how your imagined power elite interacts. I'm merely suggesting you try to account for it in some manner that's not completely illogical.

Take your first paragraph. It doesn't even make sense within itself. How can a "Club" member be untouchable yet simultaneously be blackmailed by another member? That means they are 'touchable' doesn't it?

"Imagined power elite"?

Are you serious?

Has there ever been, in your mind, any organized crime in this world?

Ever hear of the term, "made man"?

And in amongst that organized crime, have there ever been any warring factions?

Seriously dude, your situation is critical.

Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer
reply to post by SimontheMagus

 

And by the way, there's really no mystery to the toasted cars and the "strange pattern" of what got burned and what didn't. It's damned simple: Debris from the explosions, fires, and building collapses caused fires at ground level. some of these fires started on cars. Those cars that did not burn were not ignited by falling debris, nor fire spreading from falling debris..

The photos of cars far from ground zero show where they were temporarily stored before being scrapped during the first phase of the cleanup.

But you're right. This explanation has nothing to do with jet fuel, or pancaking floors. But why would it?

Wow, how sad. That's one of your weakest fairy tales yet. It's amazing what the programmed subconscious mind can block out.

Go back and look at the vehicles again. Tell us what vaporized rubber tires but left the steel belts around the rims. How did that fire and debris melt the insides of ambulances and fire engines without even damaging the external paint jobs. Tell us how those cars were "moved" if many of them were still burning. Tell us how those cars, even while still burning and nowhere near Ground Zero, were turned into twisted and mangled spaghetti when there was no sign of any debris around them, only dust. All of these toasted vehicles were burning exponentially hotter than any fire that can be generated by jet fuel or gasoline.

It is the same super-high heat that melted steel beams at 130 Liberty Street. That jet fuel is jsut amazing. Whatever steel it came into contact with was able to fly a block and a half and melt steel beams in other buildings! It was able to melt cars a half mile away, many of them from the inside out! And it was certainly selective. It melted, let's say, a roof, but left the doors! Or melted a wheel rim, but left the other three alone while surgically removing the rubber!

And these anomalies are just the tip of the iceberg.

What do you think the octane of that jet fuel might have been?

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
Who are these people and what right do the have to disrupt debate?

So anyone pointing out the sillyness of your conspiracy theory is "disrupting debate"....

You just cannot handle the truth!

We're trying to get to the truth. We don't accept Donald Duck and Little Miss Muffet as the truth. Sorry. That might work for you, but not us. Can you just go back to Mother Goose and let us adults try to sort things out?

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Your constant aggression and rudeness is striking. And particularly amusing given that you're the first to whine about people being mean to you

Awww, did "same crap, different day" hurt your little feelings? I apologize for that. Really I do. Sometimes it's really difficult to be 100 percent courteous when lying government shills are attacking every word you type including what you do for a living.

As for "The Club", nobody said it better than this man, who is a Saint:

George Carlin - Who Really Controls America

www.myspace.com...

reply to post by SimontheMagus

Tell us how those cars, even while still burning and nowhere near Ground Zero, were turned into twisted and mangled spaghetti when there was no sign of any debris around them, only dust.

This is one of the silliest conspiracy theories.

These cars were towed or even dragged out of the way in an effort to clear the streets so rescue/recovery equipment can get in.

Damaged cars can and do catch on fire later. This is because the electrical system is physically damaged.

Ask your local fire department how often damaged cars burn after they are towed from the accident scene.

Originally posted by samkent

This is one of the silliest conspiracy theories.

These cars were towed or even dragged out of the way in an effort to clear the streets so rescue/recovery equipment can get in.

Damaged cars can and do catch on fire later. This is because the electrical system is physically damaged.

Ask your local fire department how often damaged cars burn after they are towed from the accident scene.

Really? 911 was one hell of a strange day. The cars were so traumatized that they spontaneously combusted

You're right, you qualified your own statement very accurately. But I will go down to my Fire Dept and ask them how often that happens.

reply to post by SimontheMagus

Under normal towing conditions, the towing company will remove or cut one of the battery cables. But 911 was different. Likely they had city workers drag autos out of the way. You can't expect city workers to know the proper way to 'safe' a car before removal.

Originally posted by SimontheMagus
Wow, how sad. That's one of your weakest fairy tales yet. It's amazing what the programmed subconscious mind can block out.

Go back and look at the vehicles again. Tell us what vaporized rubber tires but left the steel belts around the rims. How did that fire and debris melt the insides of ambulances and fire engines without even damaging the external paint jobs. Tell us how those cars were "moved" if many of them were still burning. Tell us how those cars, even while still burning and nowhere near Ground Zero, were turned into twisted and mangled spaghetti when there was no sign of any debris around them, only dust. All of these toasted vehicles were burning exponentially hotter than any fire that can be generated by jet fuel or gasoline.

Something tells me you dont get out much into the real world. Have you ever seen a car fire before? Like, ever?









Car fires can and DO get very hot. What is burning? Gasoline, for starters. Then all the plastics, upholstery, vinyl, flammable liquids, etc. Yeah, it burns really hot. The cars at WTC were either set afire by the burning debris from the aircraft impacts, or flaming debris from the WTC, or flaming debris from the collapses, or caught in a chain of car fires. Fire likes to spread, and sometimes, cars close together will catch fire if one is lit up. Gasoline escaping the tank, exploding gas tanks, hell even the heat can set off another car next to it. Nothing sinister about it, that is just how fire works. The WTC cars were TOWED to their locations after the events. Cars also rust quickly after being burned as heat and water accelerate the rusting process on exposed steel. Some were removed from the nearby parking lot that got hit by flaming debris. Some removed from the collapsed area. Some were removed from the garages inside.

It is the same super-high heat that melted steel beams at 130 Liberty Street. That jet fuel is jsut amazing. Whatever steel it came into contact with was able to fly a block and a half and melt steel beams in other buildings! It was able to melt cars a half mile away, many of them from the inside out! And it was certainly selective. It melted, let's say, a roof, but left the doors! Or melted a wheel rim, but left the other three alone while surgically removing the rubber!

And these anomalies are just the tip of the iceberg.

What do you think the octane of that jet fuel might have been?

What are you talking about? 130 Liberty Street? What happened there?? What melted beams? Where are you pulling this nonsese from? All I recall is that it got hit by debris from the tower. Nothing about melted steel beams. As for the doors being left, it aint the first time doors were left on cars afer a car fire. The only anomalies here, are all in your head. No where else.

Originally posted by samkent
This is one of the silliest conspiracy theories.

These cars were towed or even dragged out of the way in an effort to clear the streets so rescue/recovery equipment can get in.

Damaged cars can and do catch on fire later. This is because the electrical system is physically damaged.

Ask your local fire department how often damaged cars burn after they are towed from the accident scene.

I'm coming into this argument fresh so I don't know...is this guy seriously suggesting that it's some weird mystery how and why a wrecked car in the streets of NYC was moved across town? In NEW YORK CITY?!? If someone illegally parks or steals a car and abandons it they're simply going to wring their hands in frustration wondering what to do about it?!? I mean, really?

Originally posted by GenRadek
Car fires can and DO get very hot. What is burning? Gasoline, for starters. Then all the plastics, upholstery, vinyl, flammable liquids, etc. Yeah, it burns really hot. The cars at WTC were either set afire by the burning debris from the aircraft impacts, or flaming debris from the WTC, or flaming debris from the collapses, or caught in a chain of car fires. Fire likes to spread, and sometimes, cars close together will catch fire if one is lit up. Gasoline escaping the tank, exploding gas tanks, hell even the heat can set off another car next to it. Nothing sinister about it, that is just how fire works. The WTC cars were TOWED to their locations after the events.

Here are some cars located a block and a half north of WTC7... the gas tanks did not explode, and the door handles are missing, which seems to be the case with most of the 1400 vehicles. What is it about jet fuel that can remove door handles?

What are you talking about? 130 Liberty Street? What happened there?? What melted beams? Where are you pulling this nonsese from? All I recall is that it got hit by debris from the tower. Nothing about melted steel beams.

Here ya go.... 130 Liberty Street. This is what happened when one of the beams was struck by falling debris from the South Tower.....

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
I'm coming into this argument fresh so I don't know...is this guy seriously suggesting that it's some weird mystery how and why a wrecked car in the streets of NYC was moved across town? In NEW YORK CITY?!? If someone illegally parks or steals a car and abandons it they're simply going to wring their hands in frustration wondering what to do about it?!? I mean, really?

Yeah, pretty ridiculous for someone to suggest that amidst all this confusion in the hours following the collapses, that NYC somehow managed to move 1400 vehicles away from the area around Ground Zero. Most of them could not have been towed because they were missing their tires and in many cases the wheels had fallen off. That would mean that there must have been a swarm of flatbeds running around the debris and massive confusion in downtown Manhattan all morning and afternoon.

Not to mention that in most of the photos it can clearly be seen that these cars were not towed from where they were after they went on fire.

Here's another batch of photos.... each one of them would require you to make up a new fairy tale to explain them....

drjudywood.com...

Personally, I think THIS explanation makes INFINITELY more sense than your utterly absurd nonsense:

Chuck Boldwyn's research finds they are all result of highly specifically Chemically Reactive Thermate Particles found by the millions/billions in expanding and heated dust clouds

911scholars.ning.com...

reply to post by SimontheMagus


In regards to the car door handles, go and type in "burnt out cars" into a search engine for images. Then see how many cars have door handles melted off. Second, if you noticed, the fires spread. Fire likes to spread. That is how cars catch fire in parking lots and streets. We dont know what type of debris started it, but we can see the aftereffects.

In regards to the Deutsche Building, that beam is squashed, and it unknown if it it from the WTC or 130. But image seems a little distorted, colorwise. Are there any better images? If the beam is from the WTC than it is probably indicated of the beam distorting from plasticity after exposure to fire and stress loads. Other structures also showed such column failure, when beams were xposed to heat and pressure. Look up "steel creep high temperature" and "steel plasticity". It may open your eyes.

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

Yeah, pretty ridiculous for someone to suggest that amidst all this confusion in the hours following the collapses, that NYC somehow managed to move 1400 vehicles away from the area around Ground Zero. Most of them could not have been towed because they were missing their tires and in many cases the wheels had fallen off. That would mean that there must have been a swarm of flatbeds running around the debris and massive confusion in downtown Manhattan all morning and afternoon.

Where does it say the cars were towed hours after collapse? i want to see some actual evidence of that.

Not to mention that in most of the photos it can clearly be seen that these cars were not towed from where they were after they went on fire.

really? Cause some of them were towed. Others burned from debris and stayed there.

Here's another batch of photos.... each one of them would require you to make up a new fairy tale to explain them....

drjudywood.com...

Personally, I think THIS explanation makes INFINITELY more sense than your utterly absurd nonsense:

Chuck Boldwyn's research finds they are all result of highly specifically Chemically Reactive Thermate Particles found by the millions/billions in expanding and heated dust clouds

911scholars.ning.com...

The pictures show how some flaming debris set off chair reaction fires. Why is that so hard to understand?

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by SimontheMagus

 

In regards to the car door handles, go and type in "burnt out cars" into a search engine for images. Then see how many cars have door handles melted off. Second, if you noticed, the fires spread. Fire likes to spread. That is how cars catch fire in parking lots and streets. We dont know what type of debris started it, but we can see the aftereffects.

In regards to the Deutsche Building, that beam is squashed, and it unknown if it it from the WTC or 130. But image seems a little distorted, colorwise. Are there any better images? If the beam is from the WTC than it is probably indicated of the beam distorting from plasticity after exposure to fire and stress loads. Other structures also showed such column failure, when beams were xposed to heat and pressure. Look up "steel creep high temperature" and "steel plasticity". It may open your eyes.

That is a FEMA photo and the beam is from 130 Liberty Street. There's nothing unclear about it. The end of the beam is twisted, severed, and charred. The falling debris was superheated which explains the molten pools six weeks later. 130 Liberty Street did not have raging fires, and even if it did, there was no jet fuel to help them get hot enough to melt steel.

Really, it just amazes me the lengths you guys will go to trying to explain the unexplainable. I'm going to bail out of this nonsense for now because your arguments have no substance, no backbone, and refute nothing. I have other things to do. You obviously don't. You are dead set that there was no government involvement and that is obviously what you are going to continue to argue no matter how much evidence is presented.

The people reading here can reach their own conclusions, and the verdict is in for anyone with their eyes open.

Project Northwoods, Operation Able Danger, WTC 7 Free Fall, Wall Street Insider Trading, Eyewitness testimony of expolosions (including FDNY,NYPD) mysterious deaths of Barry Jennings et. al., Missing trillions, Norad Stand Down.

These are ALL FACTS, yet we who seek a new investigation are labeled the conspiracy theorists... But it's ok, the truth can be scary- here is a psychological explanation as to why 9/11 truth is treated like a red-headed step child.

Originally posted by SimontheMagus
Yeah, pretty ridiculous for someone to suggest that amidst all this confusion in the hours following the collapses, that NYC somehow managed to move 1400 vehicles away from the area around Ground Zero. Most of them could not have been towed because they were missing their tires and in many cases the wheels had fallen off. That would mean that there must have been a swarm of flatbeds running around the debris and massive confusion in downtown Manhattan all morning and afternoon.

Lie # 1) NYC has developed the ability to tow vehicles down to a science. Just because you yourself have never seen a stolen car stripped down to the axles doesn't mean that noone else has seen them and haven't figured out how to move them.

Lie #2) I was wondering which one of those damned fool conspiracy websites you were getting this bit from, and now I know- Judy Wood. The photos she displays are just plain ignorant- the police car "missing it's back end" was due to the plastic being burned away, and the hole in the ground was due to falling wreckage. How can you NOT know this?

Lie #3) Any directed energy weapon that would have destroyed buildings and burned cars would also have disintergrated the people who were in the vicinity. Physics need to apply to your conspiracy claims every bit as much as they do everywhere else.

Not to mention that in most of the photos it can clearly be seen that these cars were not towed from where they were after they went on fire.

Check again. The photos don't show any such thing, and in fact they confirm they were moved. Many of them were parked at weird angles in the street, meaning that either they were parked at weird angles in the street before the attack (which would NEVER happen in NYC so don't waste my time or yours going there) or they were moved after they were already destroyed. The very intact ladder leaning against one of the vehicles in the background shows right there that the photo was taken quite some time after the attack.

Personally, I think THIS explanation makes INFINITELY more sense than your utterly absurd nonsense:

Chuck Boldwyn's research finds they are all result of highly specifically Chemically Reactive Thermate Particles found by the millions/billions in expanding and heated dust clouds

So how does "chemically reactive thermite particles" explain the missing back end of the police car, if not because of the plastic parts being burned away? While you're at it, how does it explain the crater in the asphault? And if it burned cars and left craters in the asphault then why didn't it burn the people? You can't just cherry pick the one or two individual points that appear to back your claim up. You need to take account for ALL the facts.

Sooner or later, it WILL dawn on you that you've been raped by these damned fool conspiracy websites, and badly. Going around saying everything you don't want to believe is true is "utterly absurd nonsense" before running away giggling only makes your own credibility suffer, not mine nor anyone else's.

Originally posted by PancakeTheoryNeedsSyrup
here is a psychological explanation as to why 9/11 truth is treated like a red-headed step child.

LMFAO, that made my day dude thank you. And you could provide all the evidence in the world to the government sheep but to them it's all a serious amount of coincidences in which they fail to connect the dots. To them, whatever happened on 9/11 is what is stated in the lie-filled 9/11 Commission Report. They see it like this...

-Rumsfeld changing the hijacking protocol, creating a much bigger chain of command for a civilian aircraft shoot down in Jun 2001-- just a coincidence

-The announcement (on 9/10/01) made that said 2.3 trillion dollars was unaccounted for inside the Pentagon-- just a coincidence

-9/11 drills and exercises that occurred within the same moments that the hijackings occurred caused confusion amongs our country's defense system---just a coincidence

-Rumsfeld, on the morning of 9/11, inquiring that game-changing horrific event will occur in the near future that will show America how important are military is---just a coincidence

-The Twin Towers being the 1st of their building type to collapse---just a coincidence

-15 of the 19 hijackers were citizens of Saudi Arabia and the solid evidence directly linking Saudi Arabia (not Iraq) to the hijackers, the FBI covering up the investigation and stopping anyone from looking into it---just a coincidence

-George Bush declaring the attacks an "Act of War" before any investigation took place--just a coincidence

-The CIA managing to materialize evidence linking Saddam Hussein to 9/11 and the presence of WMDs within Iraq (all of it was completely false with not 1 hint of the CIA being close to the truth)--just a coincidence

-Tension with Iran is currently building and so now the US has decided Iran had a significant role in 9/11--just a coincidence


There's a ton more I can list, I'll be back in a little with more "coincidences".


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