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Spiritual Warfare: How does it work?

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posted on May, 4 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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Christians often talk about spiritual warfare. But, how does spiritual warfare work? From what I understand, spirits are intangible beings. They can't be killed, hurt, maimed, etc. So, how do spirits conduct war?

There is scripture in the bible in Daniel 10 that talks about an angel who was trying to deliver a message to Daniel, but the angel was withstood for 21 days by a spirit called The Prince of Persia. He was able to finally win when Michael the archangel came to help. I guess god couldn't deliver the message personally like he did others? Anyway, how does this happen? If the angel is on the biblical god's side, how in the world could anyone or anything oppose him? Does this god just sit back and cheer his team on as they struggle, and doesn't help them? It doesn't make any sense.

Next, we hear of these spirits having weapons and armor. Where do they get these weapons and armor? Do they have an angelic blacksmithing company? Do they mine the metals needed to make these weapons and armor? How does this work?

Now, why do they have weapons and armor? Are they going to kill each other? If they can't kill each other, what are the weapons for? If they can kill each other, what does a spirit become once it dies?

And finally, there's the story of Jacob in Genesis 32 where he wrestled an angel and held his own for several hours, until the angel knocked Jacob's hip out of socket. How was a human able to hold his own with an angel? I thought we didn't wrestle with flesh and blood?
edit on 4-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 4 2012 @ 09:42 AM
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Are you making a case for Alien Jesus? Interesting questions, just reminds me of the set up for an episode of "Ancient Aliens."



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by LeftySinister
Are you making a case for Alien Jesus? Interesting questions, just reminds me of the set up for an episode of "Ancient Aliens."
No, just asking how spirits war with one another. Seems counterproductive if they can't actually kill each other.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 09:47 AM
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Spiritual warfare are negative energy spirits testing your resolve to believe in God, through all kinds of trickery, and even possession.

Their ultimate goal is to lead you away from God.

At least, that's the gist of it.

And of course, if you believe in that sort of thing.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Spiritual warfare are negative energy spirits testing your resolve to believe in God, through all kinds of trickery, and even possession.

Their ultimate goal is to lead you away from God.

At least, that's the gist of it.

And of course, if you believe in that sort of thing.

Did you read Daniel 10? These are spirits actually warring with one another.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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I see a spirit "dying" as actually banishing it to the Void. That's what YHWH did with the rebellious Watchers. And no immortal being wants to float forever in Nothing. Hence they war to gain a foothold here. Something is always better than Nothing. Even if that Something is a shadowy Astral Realm. As for physical manifestations, like Jacob wrestling the angel, I believe spirits can manifest themselves on the physical plane in several ways. Angels, being very powerful spirits, could produce some awesome manifestations...if God allows it, of course.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by LeftySinister
I see a spirit "dying" as actually banishing it to the Void. That's what YHWH did with the rebellious Watchers.
Same thing would happen to a good angel when it died? Can you explain how they go about "banishing" a spirit into the void...whatever that is? Then, if a good spirit and bad spirit are both banished to the void, will they war there too?


Originally posted by LeftySinister
And no immortal being wants to float forever in Nothing. Hence they war to gain a foothold here. Something is always better than Nothing. Even if that Something is a shadowy Astral Realm. As for physical manifestations, like Jacob wrestling the angel, I believe spirits can manifest themselves on the physical plane in several ways. Angels, being very powerful spirits, could produce some awesome manifestations...if God allows it, of course.
So we CAN wrestle against flesh and blood after all, when speaking of these beings?



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman



Same thing would happen to a good angel when it died? Can you explain how they go about "banishing" a spirit into the void...whatever that is? Then, if a good spirit and bad spirit are both banished to the void, will they war there too?
The Void is a place of isolation. So to answer that question I'd say, "No. They don't battle in the Void." Banishing a spirit is an involved process. So is spiritual warfare. As for how spirits go about banishing one another, maybe you should ask one of them.



So we CAN wrestle against flesh and blood after all, when speaking of these beings?
I believe so. In very rare instances. The amount of energy it takes for a spirit to throw a book off a shelf or appear as an apparition is huge. I can only imagine how much it would take to manifest physically.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


First, why does God exactly send messengers instead of simply delivering the message himself? In scripture, God at Mt. Sinai tells Moses to tell all the Hebrews to get back down the mountain, because if they see him they will die (Exodus 19:21). Simply put, most people aren't allowed to view God and live.

Angels are beings in Heaven. You can interact with an Angel, without even knowing it. Yeshua said, at the time of resurrection, man's body will be like the angels and that this body would have no sex. Recently I wondered if this was in opposition to the idea that Fallen angels impregnated humans. The answer I received was no. The answer is no because angels can take on a physical body

Edit:

If God existed before matter, space and time, acting outside the laws of physics in the beginning, if particles can be anywhere in the universe relative to an observer, if fractals exist everywhere in nature even on other planets, if heaven is another dimension (Possibly right next to us, or on us.!), then an angel knows all this. If you think of a wheel, hypothetically on an alien space ship, you'd say that's weird. Well not exactly, a wheel is simply the most efficient machine to move across a surface. Man, unconsciously builds according to the pattern of the Holy Spirit, things in nature, and geometry.
edit on 4-5-2012 by CaptainNemo because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by CaptainNemo
Simply put, most people aren't allowed to view God and live.
Lol, and why is that? God can't manifest himself in a way that won't kill people?



Originally posted by CaptainNemo
Angels are beings in Heaven. You can interact with an Angel, without even knowing it. Yeshua said, at the time of resurrection, man's body will be like the angels and that this body would have no sex. Recently I wondered if this was in opposition to the idea that Fallen angels impregnated humans. The answer I received was no. The answer is no because angels can take on a physical body
Yeah, I've got a thread on this already. They can take a physical body that just happens to be human? Can they also take on the form of a dog and mate with them and produce offspring? How do angels create dna in their testicles that is compatible with human dna to create offspring? What else can they transform into and create offspring with?



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 





Lol, and why is that? God can't manifest himself in a way that won't kill people?


Burning bush? Pillar of fire? Engulfing clouds?

I could go on for a while, but the crux of these instances is who he chose to reveal himself to, righteous and 'sanctimonious' men. If you do good in your works then will see the face of the Most High.

God is the supreme being, the source of us and everything. As one, if he were to appear in my bedroom, I think the universe would collapse. From my perspective, he's infinitely dense, infinitely big, and infinitely hot. Light would break down and time would stop. This is the equivalent of taking a sheet of paper and infinitely folding it in on itself. Perhaps this is the reason he chose a quaint bush?




Yeah, I've got a thread on this already. They can take a physical body that just happens to be human? Can they also take on the form of a dog and mate with them and produce offspring? How do angels create dna in their testicles that is compatible with human dna to create offspring? What else can they transform into and create offspring with?


As an observer watching a system with the ability to be whatever, rest assured that I will elect to be the smartest species or at least the one on top of the food chain. What since would it make to appear as a rat? Maybe it's like the Star Trek Dematerializer (Is that in Star TreK)? Instead of a nuts and bolts machine that assembles the neccesary molecules to create a human body, it's thought or observation.

edit on 4-5-2012 by CaptainNemo because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-5-2012 by CaptainNemo because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


I suggest this book by Dr. Ron Phillips:


www.amazon.com


It was a great blessing to me to explain the nuts and bolts of it.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by CaptainNemo
 



Yeshua said, at the time of resurrection, man's body will be like the angels and that this body would have no sex.


Quote please?

I'm pretty sure he said the angels "do not marry". He didn't say anything about sexes.


edit on 4-5-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


They don't marry because there's no reason to marry, sex. The new body won't be male or female but it will be your express image.

Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthyand they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection. of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage." Luke 20: 34-36




In Judaism, sex is not merely a way of experiencing physical pleasure. It is an act of immense significance, which requires commitment and responsibility. The requirement of marriage before sex ensures that sense of commitment and responsibility. Jewish law also forbids sexual contact short of intercourse outside of the context of marriage, recognizing that such contact will inevitably lead to intercourse.


www.jewfaq.org...

One is endogenous of the other. In combination, a better understanding is gained in context of Yeshua's words because why did Paul rebuke the Corinthians for believing in corpse revival? ((1 Corinthians 15:42-50) The idea is that the new body will be your body, sex organs and all. But that's not what makes you male or female, it's two X chromosomes or an X and a Y chromosome. You won't have these chemical reactions taking place in your body, or blood flowing through your brain.


edit on 4-5-2012 by CaptainNemo because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-5-2012 by CaptainNemo because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by CaptainNemo
Burning bush? Pillar of fire? Engulfing clouds?
So he can. Why say he would kill them by showing up?


Originally posted by CaptainNemo
I could go on for a while, but the crux of these instances is who he chose to reveal himself to, righteous and 'sanctimonious' men. If you do good in your works then will see the face of the Most High.
When I was a christian, I lived with drug addicts and talked to them about Jesus. I did this for over 2 years. I never once saw the face of god.


Originally posted by CaptainNemo
God is the supreme being, the source of us and everything. As one, if he were to appear in my bedroom, I think the universe would collapse.
Why would the universe collapse? Again, can't he appear without destroying everything?


Originally posted by CaptainNemo
As an observer watching a system with the ability to be whatever, rest assured that I will elect to be the smartest species or at least the one on top of the food chain. What since would it make to appear as a rat?
Because it could make the rat species intelligent. Plus, rats multiply much faster than us. It would be much better to mate with rats. They'd be part rat, part angel, and they would be intelligent and there would be many of them!

Also, it would be like us being able to mate with the most intelligent creature on our planet besides ourselves: The dolphin. Are you attracted to dolphins? Why are angels attracted to us?

If angels can change their form, why wouldn't some change in to men, and others change in to women. Then, they'd be sexually compatible and could reproduce amongst themselves. There's no need for them to mate with us.

Others respond to this by saying that angels were trying to mess up the bloodlines of humans. I have a better way of messing up our bloodlines: Kill us all. Duh.
edit on 4-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 





So he can. Why say he would kill them by showing up?


I said God in his uniqueness can kill you. God is one and he exists in his uniqueness in Heaven. The burning bush was merely a manifestation of his essence to Moses.




When I was a christian, I lived with drug addicts and talked to them about Jesus. I did this for over 2 years. I never once saw the face of god.


When you die, resurrect and are judged you will see the face of God




Why would the universe collapse? Again, can't he appear without destroying everything?


Because it's like trying to squeeze the apple (God) into a grape (universe). To prevent this God sends angels or makes less catastrophic appearances.




Also, it would be like us being able to mate with the most intelligent creature on our planet besides ourselves: The dolphin. Are you attracted to dolphins? Why are angels attracted to us?


Humans and animals are incomparable. Humans are the only sentient species on the planet, and we have spirits. The angels weren't concerned with animals.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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I'm not sure what the bible teaches, but here is what I know:

There are many different spirits with different intentions. Some of them are working to manipulate the world by putting thoughts and emotions into people's minds and feeding off of their passion for their own selfish gain, and some are trying to free people from such beings. Of course there are other types though....



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by CaptainNemo
 


I know the verse, that's why I challenged you. You added to it. All Jesus said is there will be no marriage in heaven,. and that the angels do not marry. And if you think the only reason for sex is to procreate read Song of Solomon. And ask yourself why He created women to have an orgasm.


edit on 4-5-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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The way I was taught about "spiritual warfare" almost two decades ago in a charismatic church was that there were demons in the air that could possess and oppress people.

You could come against those demons with the name of Jesus, or anoint a property with oil.

Back then it was the midst of satanic-panic, and many Christians felt constantly under attack from demonic entities. Mostly it was just a big hysteria.

For more on how we viewed spiritual warfare back then one can search Chick Publications, or any of the books by Rebecca Brown, such as Prepare For War, or He Came To Set The Captives Free.
These books were considered "spiritual warfare manuals".

Strangely spiritual warfare appealed a lot to fundamentalist Christian women, who often took fighting Satan and his demons to neurotic levels.
But perhaps it's understandable, since the Pauline Doctrine tells women to shut their traps in no uncertain terms, and it was the only way of getting attention and agency in a patriarchal cult.

It's probably still around, but in a slightly more appropriate fashion.

The idea is that you give Satan a right to send demons into your home or life by some minor transgression.
Usually it's occult stuff that they blame, but it could be a record sleeve with an occult symbol, or an Islamic carpet, or an Eastern or Catholic (God help us) statue and trinket.

Ultimately the house could never be spiritually cleansed enough, and it's really like spiritual OCD.

At the end of the day Rebecca Brown was exposed as a fraudster and hallucinating druggie.
She still as some fans however.

Somebody sucked it all out of their thumb, as usual.

Well nowadays the name of Jesus is disputed by factions of Zionist Christians.
I guess you'd have to call Him Jeshua, or for the really committed people, Jeheshua.

Nevertheless we learnt to say: "Demon, I rebuke you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!"

The demons then flee, but if you don't clean up your act they will return with seven more.
So perhaps it's better to stick with any devil you know, because that belief was a never ending source of mental terrorism, and it did break marriages apart.
edit on 4-5-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman

Without admitting to anything that could be used against me, to strip me of certain rights or privileges or freedom, I will simply state that some one with certain credentials has suggested that I am delusional.

That is not a state that I would wish upon any one. I don't recommend it; be it mechanically, chemically, or emotionally induced.

I have, in certain states of mind, engaged in something which could be characterized as "spiritual warfare". It isn't fun or pleasant, or enjoyable. The question of physical or not physical has no relevance. After some time has elapsed; sometimes days, or weeks, or even years, the rational mind must come to terms in order to attempt the sorting out of what was real, in some way real, or pure delusion. And that isn't particularly easy.

For the majority of people, I would recommend sticking with consensual reality (that which all the senses can agree with) which can also be examined rationally in a cause and effect world. In other words, fight the fight in the physical, not violently, but rationally with persuasion and not force.

There are certain superstitious beliefs that still hide within the cloak of religion, be the religion ever so "modern and respectable and mainstream". These superstitions are the spiritual enemy we should fight against. They have the ability to drive humanity to utter ruin when left to dictate actions of people, mobs, organizations, nations, and international relations.

Let us fight on then, in the World, and for the World.


edit on 4-5-2012 by pthena because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-5-2012 by pthena because: (no reason given)



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