The Fastest Growing Religion In America Is Islam

reply to post by FlyersFan

BILLIONS of Christians around the world say otherwise.

They're wrong, too!

Christ never said he was a God, nor the Son of God. He neither confirmed nor denied it when the authorities questioned him as to his status as "God" or "King".

It is disgraceful how ignorant BILLIONS of Christians are, about what Christ himself said and did (as far as anyone knows, which is all hearsay anyway), and what it was he wanted to accomplish. Likewise what they "interpret" about Islam and EACH OTHER in their various denominations...let alone what they "interpret" about their OWN faith....is embarrassing.

Jameela is right. It's none of the west's business. I'd bet there are more "closet" Muslims than we know of...everything I've actually studied from THEIR interpretation makes it look like an excellent alternative to the hate and ignorance that is Christianity. If I were going to join and "claim" ANY organized faith....Christianity would be (is and has been) the LEAST appealing.

If Islam is growing, then I'm going to learn MORE about it, not shoot my mouth off with ignorance and rage.

*SNIP*

How about we ALL stay on topic?



Really this is getting just a tad old, people...

The topic is, in case some of you have forgotten...

The Fastest Growing Religion In America Is Islam.

NOT EACH OTHER.

Post to the topic, or don't post at all.

Originally posted by Jameela


What Muslims have asked for is the ability to settle our civil matters in like manner, so that those who are Muslim have the right to follow our own religious laws in matters not criminal. This is something that in the United States as well as other countries Jews are allowed the right to do. Why is it so difficult to extend the same consideration to practicing Muslims in your country?

So on one hand you say Islam is not being forced onto the west, then you're justifying the introduction of Sharia onto the west.

The issue with extending the same consideration is that Islam doesn't differentiate between civil and criiminal. And it's imposition is in direct conflict with the US Constitution.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Jameela


What Muslims have asked for is the ability to settle our civil matters in like manner, so that those who are Muslim have the right to follow our own religious laws in matters not criminal. This is something that in the United States as well as other countries Jews are allowed the right to do. Why is it so difficult to extend the same consideration to practicing Muslims in your country?

So one one hand you say Islam is not being forced onto the west, then you're justifying the introduction of Sharia onto the west.

The issue with extending the same consideration is that Islam doesn't differentiate between civil and criiminal. And it's imposition is in direct conflict with the US Constitution.

We do not care what YOU do.... we are not trying to force sharia law on you... if the Jews can try their own civil matters in Rabbinical courts in your country why can't Muslims have courts for the same?

Double standards much?

Originally posted by Jameela


We do not care what YOU do.... we are not trying to force sharia law on you... if the Jews can try their own civil matters in Rabbinical courts in your country why can't Muslims have courts for the same?

Double standards much?

edit on 6-5-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)

No double standard. Just a direct conflict with our Constitution.

Unless Islam wants to change that to fit in with their religion. . . . . . .

reply to post by Jameela

Why is it so difficult to extend the same consideration to practicing Muslims in your country?

Hi. When there are matters of divorce or behaviors/conflicts that fall within the jurisdiction of the Jewish faith, they have "court".
However, if a felony is committed, then it comes to the attention of the law, and would be held in a court of law.
Marital rape, for example, is a felony. It is very illegal in the U.S. So, in the event there was domestic violence involved, sexual assault or child abuse, it would fall into a regular courtroom. If a man should strike his wife, even a bit, just to "punish" her as though she were a child, it is still considered assault, and consequently domestic violence, which can be a felony or a misdemeanor depending on the severity, and criminal charges are brought. On ALL people.

So, with Americans all being "treated equally" (yeah, I know ) these charges would fall within a court of criminal law.

Just so you'll know: When reading statistics of domestic violence, child abuse, and sexual assault involving American Jewish familiies, it is almost non-existent.

Originally posted by BellaSabre
reply to post by Jameela

 

Why is it so difficult to extend the same consideration to practicing Muslims in your country?

Hi. When there are matters of divorce or behaviors/conflicts that fall within the jurisdiction of the Jewish faith, they have "court".
However, if a felony is committed, then it comes to the attention of the law, and would be held in a court of law.
Marital rape, for example, is a felony. It is very illegal in the U.S. So, in the event there was domestic violence involved, sexual assault or child abuse, it would fall into a regular courtroom. If a man should strike his wife, even a bit, just to "punish" her as though she were a child, it is still considered assault, and consequently domestic violence, which can be a felony or a misdemeanor depending on the severity, and criminal charges are brought. On ALL people.

So, with Americans all being "treated equally" (yeah, I know

) these charges would fall within a court of criminal law.

Just so you'll know: When reading statistics of domestic violence, child abuse, and sexual assault involving American Jewish familiies, it is almost non-existent.

No one is asking to have courts that deal with criminal law outside of the laws of the state, Muslims have only asked to be able to have courts for matters of divorce--which in Islam certain considerations are given to these matters even before marriage begins--and other small matters such as are found in rabbinical courts.

In case of ANY criminal law it would automatically be tried in American court system, when we came to western countries we agreed to follow all the criminal laws.. but if you allow people of the Jewish faith the right to divorce under Jewish law, and other small civil matters to be tried in the same courts.. then why cant Muslims be given such identical consideration.

Our laws are quite similar in many id not most respects to Jewish law. Muslims are only asking for the same considerations given their communities. Not anything different, and not anything conflicting with criminal laws of the state.

reply to post by Jameela


Some Christian churches have councils of elders, and such, and deal with couples in more of a "counseling" role, which, yes, can sometimes be disciplinary.

But to make a legal proceeding; "a court", in my mind, would be inappropriate.

Originally posted by BellaSabre
reply to post by Jameela

 

Some Christian churches have councils of elders, and such, and deal with couples in more of a "counseling" role, which, yes, can sometimes be disciplinary.

But to make a legal proceeding; "a court", in my mind, would be inappropriate.

Then you should remove the Jewish right to have their own courts. Because to say Jews have the rights we are asking for but Muslims are not allowed is religious discrimination against Muslims.

Originally posted by Jameela


Then you should remove the Jewish right to have their own courts. Because to say Jews have the rights we are asking for but Muslims are not allowed is religious discrimination against Muslims.

False.

Because jewish laws aren't in conflict with the US Constitution.

reply to post by Jameela


I don't see it as discrimination. I think Muslims are being asked to follow our laws like everybody else.

What not just have a "council"? Same, but without the legal mumbo-jumbo, meh, what's the difference.

Gotta go. Hungry horses. I do see your points and understand your frustrations. But Muslims in the U.S. are going to need to "give" on a few points, don't you think? As we all must make some concessions in order to live here and enjoy all the "good stuff".

Have a good day.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Jameela


Then you should remove the Jewish right to have their own courts. Because to say Jews have the rights we are asking for but Muslims are not allowed is religious discrimination against Muslims.

False.

Because jewish laws aren't in conflict with the US Constitution.

Yes, thank you. Never thought I'd agree with you, (no offense-- politics, you know) but this is precisely what I've been fumbling around trying to say.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


I miss read your post im sorry. In a.moment of mild retardation I totally missed the word With in your post.
Please forgive my mistake.

reply to post by BellaSabre


No offense taken.

It's funny. Islam is always asking others to make concessions where ever they go.

Yet they refuse to make the same.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Jameela


Then you should remove the Jewish right to have their own courts. Because to say Jews have the rights we are asking for but Muslims are not allowed is religious discrimination against Muslims.

False.

Because jewish laws aren't in conflict with the US Constitution.

Please show me ANY law pertaining to marriage and divorce in Islam that is in contradiction to the United States Constitution...

do not speak without proof...

Also, Please find me any law in Islam pertaining to contractual agreements in business that are in any way contradictory to the United States Constitution.


I will give you a hint... you will never be able to find even one!

Originally posted by Jameela


Please show me ANY law pertaining to marriage and divorce in Islam that is in contradiction to the United States Constitution...

do not speak without proof...

Also, Please find me any law in Islam pertaining to contractual agreements in business that are in any way contradictory to the United States Constitution.


I will give you a hint... you will never be able to find even one!

Then you and all of Islam agree with following the US Constitution in America?
That means freedom to practice whatever religion you choose? ( Apostacy)
That means freedom for women to wear what ever they wish? ( Honour killings)
That means following US laws pertaining to underage marriage? ( Child marriage and islamic law)

Originally posted by Jameela

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Jameela


Then you should remove the Jewish right to have their own courts. Because to say Jews have the rights we are asking for but Muslims are not allowed is religious discrimination against Muslims.

False.

Because jewish laws aren't in conflict with the US Constitution.

Please show me ANY law pertaining to marriage and divorce in Islam that is in contradiction to the United States Constitution...

do not speak without proof...

Also, Please find me any law in Islam pertaining to contractual agreements in business that are in any way contradictory to the United States Constitution.


I will give you a hint... you will never be able to find even one!

does a woman have the right under islam, to sue for child and spousal support from her husband in the case of divorce?

I feel the need to point out, what Muslims are asking for is only pertaining to civil matters such as divorce, and only between two parties who would rather follow the laws of Islam in regard to such a matter. It is not a thing to be even forced upon Muslims, but a nice option for those who want to follow their religion in such a matter.

While Islam has laws that pertain to both civil and criminal, it is not criminal law that we are asking for any Islamic court to proceed over. The Talmud and the Code of Jewish Law deal with virtually every area of civil AND criminal law as well, but in the United States two practicing Jews have the right to follow their own laws pertaining to civil matters if they so choose, and Muslims are only asking for the same consideration given to them.

As a Muslim woman, if I were ever to stay in the United States, I would prefer to follow Islamic law in a matter such as divorce. It would be a personal choice, and as a personal choice, just as Jews are allowed in your countries, I would appreciate the same considerations...and yes, it is discriminatory to allow it for one group and not another.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by Jameela

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Jameela


Then you should remove the Jewish right to have their own courts. Because to say Jews have the rights we are asking for but Muslims are not allowed is religious discrimination against Muslims.

False.

Because jewish laws aren't in conflict with the US Constitution.

Please show me ANY law pertaining to marriage and divorce in Islam that is in contradiction to the United States Constitution...

do not speak without proof...

Also, Please find me any law in Islam pertaining to contractual agreements in business that are in any way contradictory to the United States Constitution.


I will give you a hint... you will never be able to find even one!

does a woman have the right under islam, to sue for child and spousal support from her husband in the case of divorce?

Not necessarily. In Islam, a marriage before it begins has a mahr from the new husband to the new wife. This sum is an agreed upon amount between the two parties, and its amount depends on social status of both parties. The wealthier men will give a prospective wife anything from uncut diamonds to apartment buildings, the less wealthy a sum of anywhere from 5 to 10 thousand dollars. Poor do get less because they have less, but this is agreed between the parties.

Its purpose is in the case of death or divorce, the woman has something to fall back on. Consider it an advance settlement if anything happens. It is agreed upon and part of an actual marriage contract because in Islam marriage is a contractual agreement, anything a woman wants in the marriage is a part of that contract agreed to in the contract before any marriage begins. It is a written contract witnessed by others and signed by both parties, and in this contract at the time of marriage and witnessing and signing, it is said that all Islamic laws will be followed in the marriage.

To me that will means a lot. In Islam, the woman keeps the children until they are 7 years of age in the case of a female child, younger for a male child. A man has the full responsibility of the support of his children, whether or not they are living with him. He is responsible to feed and clothe and provide the needs of the child.

A woman does not pay child support, because in Islam it is the mans responsibility, whether or not the child(ren) are living with the father. If a man chooses not to take his responsibility of raising the children then he is still held responsible for the care of the children financially. He does not however, have to provide any need for the woman. The non custodial parent has visitation rights in Islam.

I do not see this in any way contradictory to the Constitution of the United States.

reply to post by Jameela

I do not see this in any way contradictory to the Constitution of the United States.

Then I honestly don't see what the beef is. In Divorce court, each spouse has an attorney, and they negotiate and settle things, like, who gets the washer/dryer, who pays child support, etc.

All of that then, could easily be negotiated in a conventional divorce court. They even have "mediators" for difficult conflicts. I just don't see what you are jumping up and down about, continually citing what the Temples do. What the temples do is not my concern, nor is it yours.

Why not accept the way we manage our culture, like the rest of us?