Has God ever really answered your prayers ?

reply to post by SubAce


And your willingness to believe in something that is unprovable...something that is virtually flawless in its logic, insofar as there is no way it CAN'T exist...like saying, "Oh, I have an invisible dog with me than can turn intangible whenever it wants. I can't see it, but I hear barking sometimes so I know it's there." That kind of logic. There is absolutely no proof that it's there, but there's no way to prove it is. So you choose to believe it is, because it gives you comfort or whatever. That willingness right there, shows that you can be given no credit, because you are willing to believe in an absolute lie, willing to believe in almost anything, as long as a) it can't be proven wrong, and b) it helps you sleep at night. It gives you faith in life.

Just because, do to the quirks of logic so cleverly employed to reject arguments, it can't be proven wrong. And yet there's no concrete proof of it's exact truth. The truth of divine intervention or whatever. This is exactly how prayer works. Either it's granted, or for some mysterious reason, it isn't granted. And we humans use our wonderful gift of rationalization to choose the crazy answer instead of, "Oh, maybe I'm begging to thin air."

Remember, should we choose to wield it, we have just as much power as any godly being, because we ARE godly beings. We were made fromthe same essence, and we carry the same power. It's all a matter of accessing it. But we choose to feel helpless...because we don't want to carry the responsibilities of fate and flaw on our shoulders. We want a safety net. And par of that safety net is turning all of the problems and cures in our lives over to "god".

It's weakness. We don't have to be weak...but we are afraid of having power we don't know how to use. Of having control over life without an owner's manual. Like driving a car without knowing how it works or where you're going. And I suppose that is the greatest wisdom we have ever shown...and the greatest folly. Because now, when we've grown so much, we can finally begin to use it...but we've forgotten how. We've grown to comfortable with being babied by a god.

It's time to spread our wings and fly under our own wind. And that includes bringing our prayers to life by our own power. Because if there ever was a god, it wouldn't grant prayers or wishes...it would grant the opportunity to make them happen. Because we need to learn to do things ourselves. Teach a man to fish, you know.

That's my voice on prayer. I didn't want to type it all out earlier, but now I'm tossing this perspective in among the rest. And if you really open your mind to it, you'll see that it makes a lot of sense. You don't have to agree...just consider it. Even if you Christians have to work extra hard to consider it.

Because if you're not willing to consider other views, how on earth are you supposed to know the truth? That's what we're all here for, right? To find the truth?

Then don't just spout and blabber and preach. Listen, and learn.

reply to post by Starchild23


And exactly what do you believe that lends credence to your view?

Oh yeah, that's right, that you're God and you're super human and all knowing master of wisdom,

No thanks, I'll pass.

reply to post by Iason321


If you ever bothered with reading the links I posted on Noetics, which you can also Google if you're really interested in finding the truth...

But of course you won't. You only read what you want to read, and the rest is all deception, right?

Read about Noetics, and you will see why I have given it credence. Unless you want to continue bleating about deception and the devil. Go ahead, remain ignorant. I wonder why you ever bother coming to this site, seeing as how you cling to your blind beliefs. You should learn that your security blanket is not the master of all knowledge...and even if it were, you would be incapable of comprehending it.

Explore more. Venture from your cave of safety, your cave of lies. Go on...if you never take a risk, how can you ever grow?

reply to post by Starchild23


How can you believe in Noetics?

According to your posts an immortal soul and any conception of God is nonsense for little kids,

You say one thing but believe another,

Your mouth spouts deception and lies, and I call you out for it, and you hate it,

Gods Word penetrates to every fiber of your being whenever you see it,

and you rebel,

It is what it is,

Selah

reply to post by Iason321


I say YOUR conception of god, and any Christian's conception of god, is a foolish conception.

Our souls are immortal, and there is a source to everything, but you barely understand the first thing about it. And you pretend to know it all.

This is where we clash. This is where we disagree. If you agreed that you don't know much about any of this, and then tried to consider other viewpoints, we might agree more. But you are close-minded. You refuse to listen. And that is your own personal folly. So long as you continue to bleat about your precious book that hasn't been updated with science in the last thousand years, you will never know the truth.

Because any religion that flatly opposes science in all of its forms, cannot be accurate. Science is too close to the truth to be omitted. And yet, you insist upon doing exactly that. Why must you despise a truth that forces you to take responsibility for your life? Your fate and your flaws are yours to carry. Let no one else take the weight.

reply to post by Starchild23


Noetics and Noetic Field Theory are not the truth. Scholars of a particular subject, become subjected to their studies, submersed, if you will, and unable to see outside of the subject field. Catholic priests call themselves religious scholars, but all they ever learn is what Church Fathers have taught before, other religions are quickly swept away. Science isn't foolproof and in fact it is often disproven by itself. My take on science is that there are still a myriad of formulae and theories to be discovered, still many more that are scoffed as right now and still others, once uncovered by "scientist" which will one day be recovered. If science thus has not met its fullness, how can it have a leg to stand on to disprove the existence of God?

Last night I was praying, it was due to a thread yesterday of a woman who had somehow lied to get her breasts enlarged, and the photo showed a really unhappy depressed soul, and I just felt so sad for her, and before sleep held her in my heart and said, " You are the Light. We are Love and Light, trying to grow our lights bigger. And, coming here is painful and so many bad things that ruin our self esteem, sometimes we feel we could change our lives if we look more like hollywood.

But, that no matter what the world is like, its a short job, its like we're sent overseas on a job for a short while, and we're going back to our families, so always beleive in Love and in yourself, and I love you so much."

Right in this prayer/meditation/communication session, suddenly Spirit spoke alloud, a gentle male's voice said,

For I am Gentle of Heart, Learn of Me!

I was saying the right things, and striving to be sensitive, gentle and understand.

To have compassion and understanding.

Matthew 11:29

New International Version
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls

Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by jeantherapy
I am in the group of people that believe the power of prayer comes from the power of the mind, not an outside source. I think the mind can in some ways manipulate matter around you and each year more studies on the topic are published. Positive thoughts can have a good effect on your mind and in turn the world around you. I am so curious about why people are eager to give credit for their achievements to Jesus when they put in their own hard work. Like Jon Jones, I am sorry but I don't believe god created you for the express purpose of elbowing peoples' faces in - you put in all those hours training, studying, dieting.

Jesus healed people and told them, "YOUR faith has made YOU well". If you are going to be mentioning Jesus, at least read what he said.
And by the way, do you really think that the mind is not connected in any way to what you call "an outside source"? How so? Please explain, thanks.

edit on 10/01/11 by Wonders because: To ask.

Great, another guy that quotes the words of jesus to prove his points. There isn't a person alive today that can claim to know what jesus said, have you seen any documents authored by his hand? You're presenting oral history subsequently recorded by people with agendas, then eventually translated into the language we speak. Every play the telephone game in kindergarten? After 4 kids and 5 minutes the original message is lost. Why you think it could survive after thousands of years is beyond me.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by Starchild23

 

How can you believe in Noetics?

According to your posts an immortal soul and any conception of God is nonsense for little kids,

You say one thing but believe another,

Your mouth spouts deception and lies, and I call you out for it, and you hate it,

Gods Word penetrates to every fiber of your being whenever you see it,

and you rebel,

It is what it is,

Selah

The most offensive liars are the ones that claim jesus had superpowers and wasn't fathered in a traditional manner. He was a human born just like any other. If you believe those things about jesus why would it be impossible to believe those things about muhammed or the buddha?

Originally posted by humphreysjim
God only seems to answers prayer requests for things that could have come to pass anyway, and interestingly, with about the same frequency we would have expected them to pass regardless. For instance, if you toss a coin 100 times and pray for heads every single time, he will answer your prayers approximately 50% of the time, the rest of the time he obviously answered with a "no". This God is indistinguishable from "no God", according to any scientific or statistical test known to man. If he is there, he might as well not be.

Your logic is flawless. I do not disagree.

However, faith is real even of the object of faith is not.

Originally posted by LastProphet527

Has God ever answered just answered 1prayer in your entire life,
in which you can actually say it was the good lord that answered it?

One year ago I moved to a small town of 500 people with no job.
I went there trusting I would get a job, and I did.

At no time did I get on my knees and pray, “Please give me a job.”
Prayer is not merely to ask for something and believe it will come to you.
No, prayer is faith. It means doing our part. I trusted that I would find work,
no words were spoken to heaven because I knew full well that my actions
were my prayer.

Think of the man who plants a seed. First he finds good soil and cultivates
it then plants the seed and he waters in continuously. In this way, he finds
joy by watching Nature unfold. He does his work, God does His.

Here is the principle one should understand: BELIEF IS NOT FAITH.
When a person gets on their knees and prays, and even believes that
God has heard them, is this prayer? Yes, but this type of praying can
only do one thing: change you

You may BELIEVE it will change the world, but it does not.

Sometimes we need to change our heart. How long does that take?
Sometime a long damn time. Why? Because people are attached
to their own views and resist righteousness (i.e, being in a right
relationship with others). This is the hard part because it means
DOING something we don’t want to do, like asking for forgiveness
or simply saying I'm sorry.

Consider what James, Jesus brother, had to say.
He said, “Faith without deeds is dead.”

What this means is faith requires action. If you pray and do nothing
then your "prayer" is faithless and will produce nothing.

Unless and until your prayer produces action, there is no faith.
Again, faith is not belief. You see, belief may feel like trust
but without action, without real faith, it only self deception.

Nature's God will reward faith, but belief is not faith.

Originally posted by humphreysjim

Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by humphreysjim

 

You remind me of a maiden childless aunt who is an expert on children...
...or celibate priest who is an expert on marriage.

Your analogy is flawed. Children exist, and therefore one can become an expert in them.

Following your analogy, you would be an expert in the behaviour of leprechauns.

I love the skeptic witt, it is very often "pure gossamer" (as Don Quixote said of
Aldonza's dirty dish rag). Returning to the subject of prayer, may I reply with
a few thought of my own, in hopes of finding our own Dulcinea,

My first principle is this: BELIEF does not equal FAITH.

Nature's God will reward faith, but BELIEF is not faith.
Belief will not make your garden(s) grow.

Consider what Jesus himself said. There were two servants
and one took the coin his Master gave him and put it in the
ground so as not to lose it, the second servant invested that
coin and was able to produce a return on that investment.

What did Jesus say? He said when the Master returned he
called the one who put his coin in the earth (he who did not
invest) a wicked servant, but that Master then called the
other servant good and faithful.

Now this parable has been used by some to suggest that
the capitalist system is good, but that story was not an
endorsement of a political system, rather it was object
lesson about life. One which should be self-evident.

The message, if you think about it, is very clear. Jesus was
saying that God wants his servant to have faith—that being
faithful is good and it will reap its own reward in this life.
What was Jesus telling the 'believer' who has not invested
the talent he was given to work with? He calls him evil.

Wow! That's a hard pill for a BELIEVER in Jesus to swallow.

Many religious people have a hard time understanding this
because they are invested in their religion. They are attached
to an outcome—attached to a belief. They look to the future,
to pie in the sky when the die, but do not have their eyes on
where they are, what they are doing. They have little to no
awareness and as a result they suffer and they cause
others to suffer with them.

Can such folly even be called religion?

There are a lot of people who “believe” in God, they pray
and they trust—but if they lack faith, how can they expect
to receive any reward in this life (or the next)?

If we hear the message of God and believe, that is the talent
but if do nothing with the proverbial coin our belief is evil.

Can we blame God? After all he gave us the coin and then
expected us to use it without giving any instruction to do so.
It seems God is mean and unjust. Some people feel this way.
But when you see that the coin is our life, the message is very
clear, if we fail to use our life for good then we are wicked.

This is simple to understand - Belief is not faith!

If you call yourself a believer, you are only accepting the coin
and with that acceptance you place yourself under the judgment
of the Life-Giver who will one day call you to account. Pray you are
ready to give that account for your actions and your deeds.

If you fear judgment and burry your talent in the Earth then
it is not your own inaction that has placed your life in hell?
In this way people suffer, they fear, and yet they claim
to be believers. How strange is this? When the Master
returns, what we have done to ourselves will be our
lasting judgement. Indeed, it is your own judgement
that will condemn you to the grave.

Therefore make the right judgment and fear not.
Invest in heaven, make that your heart, and know
that it is your home, but do not rest in that belief
thinking nothing is required of you in this life.

We are here now, and faith requires our action.
Without faith, we only create our own hell.
This world is not our eternal home, but it is the
womb for our soul. In a very real way we are
all waiting... not to die, but to be born.

Here then is the conclusion of the matter:

Faith is life. However, belief (without faith) is death.
We have been give life—our duty is to use that life
to change both ourselves and this world. For it is
only in doing so that we honor our Master.



This is what prayer is all about. Not that we believe
in God doing his work, but that we find the courage
to oppose evil--in our own life and in our world.

Faith is life. And having faith means having courage.
The woman in this video is a person of faith
and a person of courage.

Originally posted by wasaka

Originally posted by humphreysjim

Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by humphreysjim

 

You remind me of a maiden childless aunt who is an expert on children...
...or celibate priest who is an expert on marriage.

Your analogy is flawed. Children exist, and therefore one can become an expert in them.

Following your analogy, you would be an expert in the behaviour of leprechauns.

Now this parable has been used by some to suggest that
the capitalist system is good, but that story was not an
endorsement of a political system, rather it was object
lesson about life. One which should be self-evident.

I think you should be careful when stating something "should be self-evident". The meaning of something "self-evident" can be interpreted into diametrically opposed positions depending on the framework one is operating from. If someone is heavily invested in the ways of the world it could be "self evident" that it means to build up a storehouse of material possessions through material investments and accept any accrual of "spiritual understanding" as gravy or one could put all their effort and investments towards spiritual understanding, a storehouse in heaven, and accept any material rewards as gravy. It is indeed "self evident" but it is also dependent on each individuals operating framework, which determines exactly where that "self evident" evidence points to.

...could be (1) "self evident" that it means to build up a storehouse of material possessions through material investments and accept any accrual of "spiritual understanding" as gravy or (2) one could put all their effort and investments towards spiritual understanding, a storehouse in heaven, and accept any material rewards as gravy.

Good point.

What is (or is not) "self evident" can be problematic.

This is a problem anytime people study the Bible and
create a theology in which to believe, hold to, cling to,
and attach themselves to. The ideas themselves form
a kind of "alternative reality" and FORM a believe system
or ideology that becomes (in a way) sacred to that person,
so that the BELIEVER become lost in FORM. Therefore
what might otherwise have been self-evident is lost. And
in this way the FORM block the FORMLESS truth.

The eyes can only see that which the mind is
prepared to accept--this applies to us all.

My main point is that BELIEF IS NOT FAITH.

And while that should be "self-evident" many things
in this world SHOULD BE.. it should be easy to see
many "self-evident" truth, and when then are pointed
out it can seem obvious, but can be difficult to see
when they are not pointed out. Again, this has to do
with what we BELIEVE. Our beliefs are our blinders,
and until we learn to unlearn, our convictions about
things they will blind us to what is self-evident.

No one is above this. That is why I find the Eastern
teaching of EMPTINESS to be so important. It is not
a concept to understand, but the reverse. It is the
process of unlearning and ungrasping (letting go)
of that which is false. Only in so doing, can we
hope to approach Truth.

No one can have a complete grasp of truth, the best
we can do is be aware of this limitation and drop those
beliefs that are untrue. Indeed, I have come to understand
that BELIEF itself is the main problem, the chief obstacle
to our spiritual growth. Why not throw them out? But by
not doing this, we nurture them, and are making them
so important that they become our very identity.

In this way, most beliefs, views, and opinions cause us problems
and we would all be better served to dispense with them.

reply to post by wasaka


wasaka, regarding the video you posted.

We live in a plutocracy. What is deemed the enemy by the plutocracy simply want control over their own resources such as oil and oil is what it is all about. Because oil is what makes money, money. What gives it value so it can be money. they aren't envious or jealous. It's not about religion per say. They just don't want their precious resources ripped off from them anymore. They want to trade their own resources on the open market in their own currency so they may own collectively a Muslim central bank issuing it's own petrodollars to benefit all their people and not just a few Sheiks and Wall Street who monopolize oil wealth.

I can really empathize with who the Western plutocrats, and their Arab royal oil partners, call their enemies. Plutocrats and their Arab royal partners who make sure that Western media brainwashes us all into thinking they are our enemies too.

Ron Paul is correct. 911 happened because we are over there. And I can't stand Ron Paul. I think he is full of crap 99% of the time. I'm a 99%!

The 1% kill more people than what they deem as "our enemies" or any other demographic on this planet for that matter. They are the epitome of evil. God answer our prayers. "Please give total power to the people Yahweh?"

I think that's what the founding fathers of the United States prayed for too, and they were the 1% in their day.

What happened? What changed? How did such evil end up winning in our day?

Enough
God is not real
you have answered your own prayers
not some fairy in the sky

Originally posted by HumanCondition
Enough
God is not real
you have answered your own prayers
not some fairy in the sky

It is very liberating to say "there is no God" when
one has been under the burned of religious guilt.
It can be a very healthy thing to express.

It is very liberating to say "there is no reincarnation"
when one has been under the burned of a religion
where this idea become oppressive. Again, this is
a healthy thing to say--to confess (speak openly).

While we may loose our religous faith, that doesn't
mean we are better off without it. It is all a process
of personal growth and as it happens, the stage of
"skepticism" is both healthy and nessasary. Without
doubt there can be no real faith. And without the
stage of skepticism there would be no mystical
faith on this Earth, just oppressive beliefism.

However, faith is real even if the object of faith is not.

Faith has value, it has health benefits, and it makes
people live a happy and fulfilled life. So while one
may need to empty themselves of "beliefism" (and
everyone needs to do that) we also NEED to live
a faithful life. And means having the courage to
exposs lies, reveal truth, relinquish evil in ourselves
and stand against wickness in the world. It means
we reject false authority (anything outside our core
being--any external force real or imagined) is a
false authority--include these ideas called god.

The idea of "god" may be false, but faith is real.

God, Heaven, reincarnation, enlightenment, and
all such "religion" gets in the way of real faith.
All these ideas are just memes, and while the
god meme may be the Supreme Meme it only
has power on those who believe. Why believe?
Why not reject all belief? Why not take on the
responsiblity of being righteous for your benefit
and for benefit of others?

That is what REAL faith is all about.

A skeptic has faith, and so does the mystic,
but the fundamentalist allows religious belief
to get in the way of that faith. Yes, the skeptic
does this as well, we all do, but my point is the
same: BELIEF IS NOT FAITH. One is dead,
the other is living and active.

Faith is the freedom not to believe anything.

reply to post by LilDudeissocool




Start a new thread and invite me, I would love to discuss these issues with you.

Originally posted by LastProphet527

Originally posted by KaelemJames
reply to post by LastProphet527

 

The flaw of never being flesh? The Father, The Son & Holy Spirit. He died in flesh.

God or his son?

The way i see it, here we go, so bare with me.

1) The Bible has always said there is one God:

"Hear O’ Israel the Lord our God, the Lord is one." (Deut 6:4)
Jesus even confirms this in all that he says and teaches (Mk 12:29-30).

2) However, the Bible says:

The Father is God. (Matthew 6:8, 7:21, Galatians 1:1)
Jesus is God from the beginning (John 1: 1-18)
The Holy Spirit is God (John 15:26, Mark 3:29, 1 Corinthians 6:19).

3) There are occasions when God refers to himself in plural terms (Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7, Isaiah 6:8)

We cannot conclude from this that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are independent Gods, because the Bible says there is ONE God.

Additionally, if we conclude that they are three independent Gods then we have broken the first of the 10 commandments in the Bible -

"You shall have no other gods besides me." (Deut 5:7).

So, it stands to reason that they cannot be independent.

How do we know this? Jesus explains it in John 14 - 17

To summarize Jesus says "I and the Father are one" (John 10:38, 17:11,21)

"I am in the Father and the Father is in me" (John 14:11) .

This means Jesus and the Father must be the same God but distinct. Now let’s consider what Jesus says about the Holy Spirit:

"I will send the Spirit of truth" for he lives with and will be in you" I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you". (John 14:17-18, 20)


Now we have to solve this riddle:

How can the Father and Son be within each other at once? How can the Son and the Holy Spirit be in me at once? The answer is: Only if they are one and the same yet distinct persons.

This is why God died in flesh for us.

Best regards.

reply to post by wasaka


I am deeply touched. But I find it so very hard that a room full of Christians (because that is the predominant faith in that room), sit there and watch her carried away without protest. They allow the doors to be shut, and they turn their attention back to the hypocrisy, as the truth, as you say, takes courage to stand up for. Which is why I dismiss Christians and their rantings. I posted a Facebook status the other day, asking people to sign a petition against rapists marrying their victims in Morocco, after a 16 year old committed suicide after been forced into such a marriage. Now on my page are at least 200 people, whom I know, post Bible quotes, who are so ready to say thy are praying for you, who will let out a "oh what a beautiful mass, I just attended" at random... But not one of them responded, not one "like", not one little word. I keep saying I cannot make God a routine in my life as the religious do, He has to be in your every moment, only then will you stand up and embarrass yourself for Him. As that is what true faith does.