It's still there- Venus with dark shadow or storm on May 3, 2012

reply to post by NotAnAspie

His telescope must be on an unfortunate side of the globe in relation to full clear shots of Venus that we SHOULD be seeing.

Does this give you a better perspective on the situation?



STEREO

Romania he says, not the best location for daytime shots i think. he would do better on the opposite side of the globe perhaps. It is rising in our sky from the west before sunset. west coast US people should be ALL OVER this as they likely have much better daytime viewing... or maybe even further on over to Japan, or maybe that's a little too far as sunlight from behind might be too obscuring but Romania? let's see, by the time it appears over there from the west the sun will be coming from the east but I'm not sure when or where exactly but this might explain why they are getting this shiny cresent daytime veiw.

i don't know, we need a model and figure out where the best daytime low reflection shot would be.

OR.... OR....

they could just tell us seeing as how it is one of the more interesting things in the sky right now ad should be covered much better than this... much better by a long shot.

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

His telescope must be on an unfortunate side of the globe in relation to full clear shots of Venus that we SHOULD be seeing.

Does this give you a better perspective on the situation?

STEREO

sure, if you could point out where Romania is on that green dot then yeah... it might help.

however....

Actually, with as slow as venus moves, maybe it's actually the time of the day people are trying to get shots of it that is the bigger problem.

i don't know, models do help but time of day and other numbers should be looked at in accordance with location so maybe i should search for some position numbers and think about that in relation to a viewable model with the positions of the sun, earth and moon like this.

hmmm...

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
His telescope must be on an unfortunate side of the globe in relation to full clear shots of Venus that we SHOULD be seeing.

Huh?

Venus will look the same when viewed from anywhere on Earth. Tonight, Venus should appear to be about half illuminated when viewed from Earth.

Wait, wait, wait!

I just got totally confused about something and need help understanding this before i can think much further on this... i just hit a big stumbling block. i'm sure it's a very simple explanation but you know how it is at times.

the sun isn't really going anywhere relative from OUR perspective as we are locked into it's system...of course (yes, i know it's moving through space relative to the galaxy... not trying to confuse anyone)

venus year is a bit shorter than our year, it's day is actually longer. So it's not like venus is moving around a lot out there relative to use. we are the ones doing the fastest spinning around so why... WHY, does the sun rise in the east and go west but venus appears to rise in the west and go east.

I'm sure this i simply but but from a position standpoint, it's not like Venus is racing around the sun. why aren't we seeing Venus appear to go east to west (in the SHORT time frame of days or weeks, not the whole year giving it a chance to move a good bit in relation to the sun) Shouldn't it e appearing to go east to west a little bit of a distance from the sun and gradually getting closer to the sun as it nears it's transit across the sun, but not appearing to go OPPOSITE from the sun in our sky as relative from our viewing position.

also, i think earth goes counter clockwise from sun, so if the diagram is from a theoretical viewing from above and not below in that picture and is over to the left of the sun from our standpoint, then best time to see Venus is after the sun rises, right after our view crosses the sun... we turn cc and see the sun and then we should be seeing Venus shortly there after.

I'm confused, is that diagram from the present position. Is it really to the left of the sun making it's way right GRADUALLY over the course of the year... if so, i am totally confused about this. why does it appear to go west to east from our position? somebody please tell me how this makes sense.

I should have tricked the sky last night and said I wasn't gonna go look at the stars cause when took my telescope out the sky was cloudy after such a beautiful day, evening looks promising but just in case I will hide my telescope underneath an umbrella.

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
WHY, does the sun rise in the east and go west but venus appears to rise in the west and go east.

It doesn't go west to east. It goes east to west with everything else in our sky due to the Earths rotation.

Originally posted by jra

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
His telescope must be on an unfortunate side of the globe in relation to full clear shots of Venus that we SHOULD be seeing.

Huh?

Venus will look the same when viewed from anywhere on Earth. Tonight, Venus should appear to be about half illuminated when viewed from Earth.

not at the same time of day... no.. but yes, venus is not moving that fast so it's position should be like you say, somewhat stationary as seen by us with IT moving slowly closer to the sun gradually over months. i see exactly what you are saying when looking at the diagram and thinking about it's revolution speed and the fact the it is inside of our orbit closer to the sun. that is why i am saying that the time he is trying to get his shot is more of a factor relative to his position. the position of earth factor might effect view closer to the poles and such but from where he is at, it seems he would do better to look at it from another time of day... one where it might appear to faint in the sky because it is after the sun rises rather than when it is close to setting and appears so shiny with that glare. Trying to veiw it from the outer position of earth as we move away from the sun around the globe and the sun's glare is more to venus's opposition from us, rather than when we are coming INTO the view, which should be morning if that drawing is from above as the earth goes cc relative to the sun and this should actually occur after sun rise.

but that is NOT when people are seeing it and what I am seeing is venus going across the sky west to east.

EDIT...correction... no I'm not. I just thought it was that way because i see it for a short period of time and don't stand there watching it and then i can't see it anymore. i got turned around there for a second. i have no idea why but i am quite certain of where east is, so... who knows?

the sun also throws me for a loop at times because of wobble and our east to west view of planetary objects seem to rise from south east because of the angle so things get weird looking sometimes trying to view them around all these trees and stuff. sometimes it seems to come from east, sometimes the sun seems to come more from south east. i was told that was wobble or something but yeah, i'm aware it should be crossing us uniformly because we are what is moving fastest in relation to everything else. if Venus swooped away from it's orbit and maybe something like went around outside our own, then yeah, we would see something very different in relation to other planetary bodies.

Originally posted by jra

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
WHY, does the sun rise in the east and go west but venus appears to rise in the west and go east.

It doesn't go west to east. It goes east to west with everything else in our sky due to the Earths rotation.

ok, let me think about this a second because that has to be right. the stars do the same thing of course. i think i must be confused about when it starts coming into visibility. i'm not sure why i thought it appears to rise in th west because i only see it or a short period of time before sunset. ok and it's not like i sit there and stare at it as it moves sooo, but yes, it has to be going east to west.

so having said that, then surely what i am thinking has something to it. that the best time to see is actually after sunrise and NOT in the evening as we turn away from the sun.

is that not correct?

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
so having said that, then surely what i am thinking has something to it. that the best time to see is actually after sunrise and NOT in the evening as we turn away from the sun.

is that not correct?

After Sunrise? Not with the bright glare of the Sun shining into your eyes (or scope). With Venus' current position, the best time is after Sunset. Eventually when Venus has transited across the Sun we will start seeing Venus before Sunrise.

And I should correct myself from a previous post. I don't think Venus should appear to be about half illuminated tonight. Stellarium wasn't showing it accurately. As Venus moves closer to us and gets closer to the Sun (relative to our view), it should appear to become more and more of a crescent shape.

Originally posted by jra

Originally posted by NotAnAspie
so having said that, then surely what i am thinking has something to it. that the best time to see is actually after sunrise and NOT in the evening as we turn away from the sun.

is that not correct?

After Sunrise? Not with the bright glare of the Sun shining into your eyes (or scope). With Venus' current position, the best time is after Sunset. Eventually when Venus has transited across the Sun we will start seeing Venus before Sunrise.

And I should correct myself from a previous post. I don't think Venus should appear to be about half illuminated tonight. Stellarium wasn't showing it accurately. As Venus moves closer to us and gets closer to the Sun (relative to our view), it should appear to become more and more of a crescent shape.

yes, the crescent thing makes sense in relation to getting closer to the sun but the thing about seeing it after sunrise in a more forward facing angle in relation to the sun is that we are now seeing it from the most distant standpoint on earth while it is still viewable in the evening...and we pick it up best because of that obscurring glare. We are seeing it from the back angle. it seems to me hat this would be the most glaring position to from it from. it seems that we need to look at it to eliminate some of the crescent from a more straight forward position.

if the earth goes cc then the most straight forward position would be after sun rise...and yes, like you say... the sun would be facing it in relation to us from the broader side... but yes, it would be very bright out and there would be a lot of light.

but what i am thinking is that proper filters would take care of that problem. We get more of a the glaring crescent backside view in the evening...and the faint facing sun side view in the morning. It seems we would want to eliminate atmospheric light as it would be full day, but in contrast just inside the planet periphery hone in on just the planetary visibility... like special filter that cuts out atmospheric light from our daytime ambient light but not filter the planet in the same way... just cut down any glare and hone in on the sun side view, not the backside glare we turn away from in evening.

the thing is. in the day, i know it is somewhere in the sky. i am just positive that some expert could calculate the appropriate filtering... i mean it's there. it's just a matter of figuring out how to view it with the right equipment.

reply to post by NotAnAspie

Right now, no equipment will do it. But earlier this year the naked eye could.
www.fourmilab.ch...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

Right now, no equipment will do it. But earlier this year the naked eye could.
www.fourmilab.ch...

Now with that great non glaring naked eye view... THAT... THAT is what I want to see zoomed in because glare is low and i'm certain it would produce a very lovely clear and complete shot. and increasingly closer to the current time frame as close to now as possible to see if ever those storms were viewable. because i don't understand why we don't see more shots like that. it's like the net is teasing us. better pictures are out there and not just from the orbiters but the orbiter pictures i have seen are so clear and intense when looking at the storms ... i think they were peaking recently (just my theory) i don't think they are exactly 'perma-storms' although i do not know when they rally started getting big but if they were earth facing, an earth based telescope could have picked that up. maybe a more sophisticated one that what you can by but i'm sure better earth based pics are out there.

so where are they? We are only seeing camera shots of visible Venus in the daytime sky.

all i can say is there must be a lot more money in Venus make-up and fashion wear than in astronomy.

there is no excuse for us to not have that clear visible shot zoomed in as much as earthly possible (since the orbiters images are getting cut up and we can't really get anything from what they will allow us to see of it)

where are all the astronomers?

i just have this feeling you know... i get so aggravated doing web searches you know. i know there is better stuff out there but it's like the damn internet is toying with me. dangling over my head. what site do you go to to buy a clear shot of venus in this strange new market i'm seeing? it's weird.

there were better pictures of ALL the planets in my grade school books and that was going on three decades ago. this just seems really weird to me. i'm not saying i have an opinion on why, i'm just observing what seems like a tend.

I know this sounds obvious but Venus is not a featureless planet
Here is a - Photo taken from Pioneer space craft

reply to post by artistpoet


That's a photo taken with a UV filter. It helps to make the cloud features stand out more than they normally would. This is how it would look in true colour:

reply to post by jra

Never realized that it had a UV filter - thanks for true image on which I can but make out a only very vague feature

Originally posted by artistpoet
reply to post by jra

 

Never realized that it had a UV filter - thanks for true image on which I can but make out a only very vague feature

that is not to say that it always appears so calm over the entire surface.
not unless what i saw was a complete hoax.

i am currently very disappointed that i can not find the videos i was hunting earlier. some orbiter pictures are way better than others. also, without filters you get a lot of reflection from the clouds... light itself can hide things. there's a lot of factors to consider. light will reflect off of clouds much better than a dark break in the clouds which might not reflect much light at all... like huge black eyes of a hurricane, which are certainly not seen from every angle. i don't know they are being so shy with these vortex videos. they were awesome. i mean just crazy.

i wish i could find them.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


Here are are few Vortex on Venus videos I found

www.redicecreations.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by artistpoet
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

Here are are few Vortex on Venus videos I found

www.redicecreations.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

yeah, i've seen them. they're interesting but make me want to cry compared to the others.

except the middle one, that one makes me want a cigarette.