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The Rise of the Fall of America

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posted on May, 3 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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I have thrown together a list of events from modern presidencies that I believe have lead us politically and economically to where we stand today: on the brink of a totalitarian police state Aristocracy. There are both democrats and republicans on this list, though I personally feel that the GOP deserves more of the blame. Anyways, these are all factual events that occurred, though I may not have the exact terms as these are from memory. Also, some will question my analysis of which actions caused which events, but hopefully everyone will agree that these are significant events that have contributed to the demise of our Nation.

Nixon- Created HMO's leading to eventually massive increase in healthcare costs, personal bankruptcies, and a widening wealth gap. Ending the gold standard (I don't know much about this one), start of modern surveillance state with CIA, NSA, FBI and police targeting US citizens.

Reagan-deregulation, weakening unions, popularizing American Exceptionalism and militarism, military buildup, started modern investor class (and wealth gap) with real estate boom.

Bush senior- started “too big to fail” for banks with Savings and Loan crisis, set the stage for the “war on terror” with the first Gulf War

Clinton- Banking “reforms” including repealing Glass-Stegal which led to the 2008 world economic collapse and continuation of widening of the wealth gap, started the gutting of the “great society” with welfare reform, beginning of the attack on the middle class with Nafta trade agreement

Bush Junior- Continuation of Reagan and Clinton deregulation and encouraged corporate culture of lawlessness which directly lead to world economic collapse. Used 9-11 to start “War on Terror” and the Patriot Act with it's accompanying legitimization of unconstitutional and illegal domestic surveillance, rendition, torture and other loss of civil rights. Created the North American Military Command which is considered the framework for using the military to enforce martial law.

Barack Obama- Continuation of “War on Terror” and Patriot Act. Increase in drone attacks on foreign citizens approved and unapproved. National Defense Authorization Act which included language permitting imprisoning anyone the executive branch considers a threat without constitutional legal recourse. Created a council to unconstitutionally and illegally target American citizens for assassination. Signed an executive order allowing the government to take over American industry, infrastructure and resources in an emergency.
edit on 3-5-2012 by CB328 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 3 2012 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by CB328
 


CBS News talks about the fall of the US




A soft landing for America 40 years from now? Don't bet on it. The demise of the United States as the global superpower could come far more quickly than anyone imagines. If Washington is dreaming of 2040 or 2050 as the end of the American Century, a more realistic assessment of domestic and global trends suggests that in 2025, just 15 years from now, it could all be over except for the shouting.


www.cbsnews.com...



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 09:09 PM
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I think we have already lost a huge amount of our influence. I am curious what people think about the actions I listed as being integral to destroying America?



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by CB328
I am curious what people think about the actions I listed as being integral to destroying America?


Define "America".



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by stanguilles7
 


Well the OP means USA but don't worry I understand though I mean America is also the name of the continent



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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No, North America is the name of the continent. I think the poster was referring to red america and blue america, or some such ideological division.



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 09:41 PM
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That is an interesting list. It's a little recent for looking at causes, but looks accurate in a few points... If I may suggest a couple to insert somewhere?

1913 : Establishment of the first U.S Personal Income tax on a Perm. Basis. (Lincoln had a temp one for the war)

1913 : Establishment of the Federal Reserve Bank to take the duties of currency control and and stablization from the hands of our elected representatives in Congress to a private sector business. Also a first.

FDR: Establishment of the New Deal programs and the entirely unintended consequence of building a system which would lead to the total destruction of the nation he was trying to save. Estimates of 70-125 TRILLION in New Deal related entitlements in our living future isn't bad, it's the end.


Nixon: Moves the United States off the Gold Standard, never again to be in a position remotely close to Solvent. From that day forward, the question wasn't of whether the United States was a creditor or debtor nation, but how far in the hold, to whom and how bad a position it puts us in for each creditor nation being discussed.

Being American...on the thread about the fall of our nation, I hope no one minds my two cents.



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by CB328
No, North America is the name of the continent. I think the poster was referring to red america and blue america, or some such ideological division.


No, I mean define what you mean by "America"when you say the fall of America. It's not semantics. I want to know how you define the "America" you say is falling. The people? The culture? The Constitution?



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by CB328
 


Sure we can blame big banks and government on why America is failing but let us not be fooled that we ourselves are not to blame...
Morality has taken a nose dive under the guise of free speech...we have exploited the original intentions of free speech and twisted it to suit every possible perversion out there
We use to think that inclusion was a good thing and that everyone civil rights meant at least to me that people would be treated fairly and would come together as a whole...just the opposite we are in a country (USA) that continues to become more divided...we have award shows now that specifically target ethnic backgrounds such as the Essence Awards, Latin Awards all black colleges, magazine specifically geared to certain races...channels devoted to black americans and somehow by coming together or having the opportunity to come together has opened the door to go in the opposite direction.
We try and preach tolerance but that is only if we agree with it (inject religion into the mix) and that goes both ways.
We allow our government to speak and act for us in ways in which we clearly do not approve of..but they do it anyway.
We have allowed private companies to basically run America through the use of lobbyist and allowed unions to throw money at the presidential hopeful who will get the union the most money in the long run....we no longer want a president who will do right for the country but rather right for me and that's why this country will never recover...or at least that's a few reasons...



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 11:56 PM
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There is an old saying, well old in most of the world. "People get the Government they deserve". I happen to think it true.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by CB328
 

If I may. . . .

The title of this thread should be, "The Rise of the Fall And Subsequent Rise Again of America".

What you posted was all true. And perhaps America needs to fall before it can clear the detrius of too many laws and mis-matched ideologies.

I don't see it as the end of American exceptionalism. We, Americans, are capable of so much more than we credit ourselves.

We've just done a real crappy job of picking our representatives.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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I don't see it as the end of American exceptionalism


Ugh, American exceptionalism is an outdated, foolish, arrogant concept that should be dead and buried.

Other parts of the world are learning to do things without us, and many of them despise us, so it is only a matter of time until we are no longer much of an influence on the world.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by CB328
 

I think America now is akin to a strange man walking down the street randomly kicking in doors of houses putting out fires, real or imagined.

We should be the good neighbor that responds when someone asks for help to put out a fire.

edit on 4-5-2012 by beezzer because: ,



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 12:54 AM
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I agree with you. There is still allot of denial though. People misguided by idealism think they help the "cause" which no one can describe what it is, but still they think they are doing good for their country. Many think it impossible for our government to do things reminiscent of the Third Reich.

The MO is Transhumanism.

The specifics are laid out in Nazi planning and documented Nazi actions in their seizing of power.

The similarities are too striking to not consider seeing how Nazi´s made their way into American high technology, politics, and even before the great wars, into American industry. It should be noted that corporate America is the driving force for our foreign policy and domestic policy regarding our citizens and their rights.

If a corporate lobbyist is not a direct author of our domestic policy as well as our foreign policy then I will eat my own shoes..


here are threads I have made that describe what Transhumanism is,and the similarities in legislature passed after 9/11 and the parliament building fire in Germany, both of which helped establish totalitarian stripping of civil liberties in both countries.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


edit on 4-5-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by CB328
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Couple of thoughts...

You missed the malaise days of Jimmy Carter. Carter (under the auspices of lowering prices and decreasing consumption) opened the door for hyperinflation driven by speculators in the oil markets, handed over the Panama Canal in a true ass-brained move, bailed out Chrysler, weakened the US' standing in the world by kissing Brezhnev's ass and signing the first nuclear arms reduction treaty between the US and USSR, crapped the bed while dealing with Iran, and was basically an overall disaster of a president.

Also, what's the deal with listing Reagan's populization of American Exceptionalism as a fault/flaw? A large issue with the current blunders occupying DC is that many of them (including the head honcho) decry the idea of American exceptionalism. Sorry, but that's a major problem right there. America started slipping when we stopped letting our brass danglers swing freely for the whole world to see. The USA should walk with a cocky swagger, not limp along like a whipped dog asking for international guidance and opinions.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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Americans have no one to blame for any upcoming fall of America but themselves.

YOU elected those officials to positions of power, without regard for what the platforms they were talking about were really going to do for the country. Many of you (over 90%) blindly vote for the same candidate or party every single time, without regard for what the candidate or party actually stands for or their stated policies. The current GOP policies are not the policies of your father's GOP.

I bet 9 in 10 people who voted for Obama in 2008 couldn't say what a single one of his policy positions were if asked.

Case in point, Congress has had single digit approval ratings for quite some time (Both Republican controlled and Democratic controlled) yet over 80% of Congressmen get reelected in most elections.

GWB passed the single greatest unconstitutional act in history with the passage of the ridiculously misnamed PATRIOT act and the American people thanked him by reelecting him. For me, I believe that the PATRIOT act will be seen by history as the beginning of the end of a Free United States.

YOU allow the rhetoric from both sides of the news networks (Fox, CNN, MSNBC) etc to continue by continuing to watch these networks. Remember the days before 24 hour news, when the news anchors would simply tell you what happened and not try and make up your mind for you?

YOU have degraded moral standards, have an incredible sense of misguided entitlement, and say NOTHING when the school system puts out stupider and stupider kids with every passing generation.

Who is to blame for the upcoming Fall of America? AMERICANS.
edit on 4-5-2012 by babybunnies because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-5-2012 by babybunnies because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
That is an interesting list. It's a little recent for looking at causes, but looks accurate in a few points... If I may suggest a couple to insert somewhere?

1913 : Establishment of the first U.S Personal Income tax on a Perm. Basis. (Lincoln had a temp one for the war)

1913 : Establishment of the Federal Reserve Bank to take the duties of currency control and and stablization from the hands of our elected representatives in Congress to a private sector business. Also a first.

FDR: Establishment of the New Deal programs and the entirely unintended consequence of building a system which would lead to the total destruction of the nation he was trying to save. Estimates of 70-125 TRILLION in New Deal related entitlements in our living future isn't bad, it's the end.


Nixon: Moves the United States off the Gold Standard, never again to be in a position remotely close to Solvent. From that day forward, the question wasn't of whether the United States was a creditor or debtor nation, but how far in the hold, to whom and how bad a position it puts us in for each creditor nation being discussed.

Being American...on the thread about the fall of our nation, I hope no one minds my two cents.


How are you not a Ron Paul supporter?
Or are you?



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:48 PM
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You missed the malaise days of Jimmy Carter. Carter (under the auspices of lowering prices and decreasing consumption) opened the door for hyperinflation driven by speculators in the oil markets, handed over the Panama Canal in a true ass-brained move, bailed out Chrysler, weakened the US' standing in the world by kissing Brezhnev's ass and signing the first nuclear arms reduction treaty between the US and USSR, crapped the bed while dealing with Iran, and was basically an overall disaster of a president.


None of this has anything to do with America turning into a police state today. The hyperinflation part was true, but has no connection to today's economy, hence why I didn't include Carter in my list



Also, what's the deal with listing Reagan's populization of American Exceptionalism as a fault/flaw?


Sigh, American Exceptionalism is the rationale used for a lot of terrible things like Neoconservatism, the War on Terror, and expanding the military and intelligence industries which are now working on persecuting American citizens, taking away our rights and obliterating the constitution.
Not to mention it has caused millions of deaths in other countries.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:55 PM
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It is the Fall of America and the Rise of The New World Order....the USA is the chrysalis from which the "butterfly" of their long awaited NWO will emerge. It is all by design and necessary for their goals. Remember "the ends justifies the means" and as George Soros said, "the only thing standing in the way of a 'new world order' is America."



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by Wookiep
 


Hmm... I promised myself and others to stay off the Paul topic..and I'm going to stick to that.


Fair question and I'll just say this to answer it. I wrote Ron Paul in as my vote for President in 2008. I voted for him on our primary this year, attended his Caucus prep session when he came here before the caucus and then watched the giant crowds at the rally translate into very little, which was soundly stomped at the Caucus.

I've voted for him every chance I've had since the 2008 primaries though...and I voted for Obama that time in the very ignorant belief that he couldn't win anyway and Hillary wasn't one I wanted. OOOPS.... Wasted votes and lessons leaned, I'll tell ya.


Why am I staying off the topic beyond this point and probably right to November? I strongly disagree with the vast majority of Dr. Paul's loyal supporters on his odds or even viable possible chance to win. That's a dandy place to drop it too...before I say anything to invite the wrath of the "but but but..You promised you'd shut up!" crowd..


(If..by some miracle of miracles...Paul's name were somehow printed on my 2012 Missouri national ballot? He'll get my vote there too, again, and I don't care if my own Mother is on the ticket opposite his name. If he's there, he gets it from me, without more thought needed.) How's that for answering a direct question on a topic I did swear I'd not voluntarily enter again for quite awhile?

..and off the topic I go again.



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