What legitimizes Christianity beyond the bible?

reply to post by MaryStillToe

What legitimizes Christianity beyond the Bible is personal experience.

This does not legitimize Christianity.

Regardless of experience you would be able to associate it with anything, for example if you had grown up in a Middle Eastern nation you would probably attribute your experiences as proof of Allah or Muhammad.

reply to post by HumanCondition


Then what legitmizes any religion or belief system?

Originally posted by MaryStillToe
reply to post by HumanCondition

 

Then what legitmizes any religion or belief system?

Fact and reality is what legitimizes something but there is no religion that can bring that to the table.
Christianity only seems legitimate because so many people believe it, but this is in no way a real legitimacy.

Originally posted by yourmaker
first off, I am an agnostic. so you may see some bias, I assure you it's not on purpose, I want this thread to refrain from mudslinging and the like.

What gives Christianity it's right to exist as a religion?
What draws people to it's teachings?
Why does it have teachings at all?
Why are the teachings of Christianity centered so far away from reality?

these questions might offend some Christians, I don't mean them in any hostile nature,
it's just that my perception of reality seems infinitely removed from what Christians talk about and seem to feel.

What is it about Christianity, beyond the bible, that gives it any sense of credibility in these times of science?
faith?

Kingdom ministry, research miracles in the modern day.

Originally posted by HumanCondition

Originally posted by MaryStillToe
reply to post by HumanCondition

 

Then what legitmizes any religion or belief system?

Fact and reality is what legitimizes something but there is no religion that can bring that to the table.
Christianity only seems legitimate because so many people believe it, but this is in no way a real legitimacy.

The physical reality is only 4 dimensions, there's a greater reality out there that cannot be tested within the spacetime dimension, there are at minimum 7 other dimensions.

Originally posted by HumanCondition
reply to post by MaryStillToe

 

What legitimizes Christianity beyond the Bible is personal experience.

This does not legitimize Christianity.

Regardless of experience you would be able to associate it with anything, for example if you had grown up in a Middle Eastern nation you would probably attribute your experiences as proof of Allah or Muhammad.

I'd look into the mass of Muslims coming to faith in Christ by personal experience with Him appearing to them.

reply to post by HumanCondition

Originally posted by MaryStillToe

Then what legitmizes any religion or belief system?

Originally posted by HumanCondition

Fact and reality is what legitimizes something but there is no religion that can bring that to the table. Christianity only seems legitimate because so many people believe it, but this is in no way a real legitimacy.

Once an experience is had, it becomes both fact and reality. By your own criteria, every religion and belief system is legitimate for individuals who've had personal experiences.

It's only not legitimate for those without any experience, which is to be expected. This is the way it is for everything.

reply to post by yourmaker
What gives Christianity it's right to exist as a religion? ...... Humans
What draws people to it's teachings? .....Jesus
Why does it have teachings at all?...........Ignorance
Why are the teachings of Christianity centered so far away from reality? ...the supernatural
What is it about Christianity, beyond the bible, that gives it any sense of credibility in these times of science?
faith? It does exist and is believable to some ,much like science . I am a Christian and am not offended by your post ...peace

reply to post by yourmaker


It saves and changes lives,

Go read some of the (literally) millions of testimonies of people who were hopeless, drug addicted, world addicted, depressed, manic, manic depressive, suicidal, sick, suffering, name an ailment, you'll find examples of Christ mending the situation,

Christ is the living water from which all mankind is offered to drink of, YHWH is the fountain of Life whos Spirit brings forth every thing in existence and his Son is the tree of life from which men can eat of to inherit eternal life,

Selah!

Originally posted by yourmaker
What gives Christianity it's right to exist as a religion?

Every religion has a "right" to exist but I'm thinking you mean "right" as in logically justified.

Every god exists. Every single one. There is a great pool of "god" that represents everything, from good to evil. Carl Jung often espoused the arch-typical nature of our collective subconscious and I like to take that model a step further.

Gods are not conduits of divine strength as much as they are filters. Catholicism, with their saints, actually demonstrate this beautifully. Each saint is a filter for the believer to heal the sick, find the car keys, make that red light, etc.

Worshiping (or understanding) the true god/goddess/source also opens you up to complete balance which isn't what people always want. Therefore we have gods. The more a particular god is believed by Jung's collective consciousness, the more powerful that filter becomes. Also, the amount of faith that is put into a god often dictates its degree of reality.

This is also why talismans and lucky fetishes work. When I bless a stone, I bless it with a specific property I want from god. It filters out everything else. Our holomovement physics model allows room for the validity and potency for all religions, rituals, and gods.

Originally posted by yourmaker
What draws people to it's teachings?

Consensus and conditioning from birth. It is the same with all religions. There are also the exceptions to each religion where a person comes to that faith by drawing their own conclusions.

In regards to Christianity in particular, I think the appeal is the unique blend of simplicity and deep documentation of the history. Also, westerners absolutely adore Brave Heart type endings.

Originally posted by yourmaker
Why does it have teachings at all?

That's the whole point of filters. In order to have faith, you need to feel you are making yourself worthy. Virtually every faith has "conditions" placed upon the adherents in order to receive the benefits.

Originally posted by yourmaker
Why are the teachings of Christianity centered so far away from reality?

That's a little unfair to say. If you are speaking to why it's outdated in many of its social rules, then I'd say it is because it is a very old religion. Once religions get to a certain age beyond that, however, they tend to become less dogmatic or they simply cease to exist. How many modern shamans do you know who feel they absolutely need to follow the nonsensical aspects of their faiths in order for their magick to work?

reply to post by longjohnbritches


Its true the Hebrews created those myths but Christians still accept it as fact.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by HumanCondition

Originally posted by MaryStillToe
reply to post by HumanCondition

 

Then what legitmizes any religion or belief system?

Fact and reality is what legitimizes something but there is no religion that can bring that to the table.
Christianity only seems legitimate because so many people believe it, but this is in no way a real legitimacy.

The physical reality is only 4 dimensions, there's a greater reality out there that cannot be tested within the spacetime dimension, there are at minimum 7 other dimensions.

I'm sorry but this is just silly, why can you not just admit you do not have any evidence?

I'd look into the mass of Muslims coming to faith in Christ by personal experience with Him appearing to them.

The entire world could have 'him' appear to them and 'he' still would not be any more real then the tooth fairy.

Originally posted by MaryStillToe


reply to post by HumanCondition

 

Originally posted by MaryStillToe

Then what legitmizes any religion or belief system?

Originally posted by HumanCondition

Fact and reality is what legitimizes something but there is no religion that can bring that to the table. Christianity only seems legitimate because so many people believe it, but this is in no way a real legitimacy.

Once an experience is had, it becomes both fact and reality. By your own criteria, every religion and belief system is legitimate for individuals who've had personal experiences.

It's only not legitimate for those without any experience, which is to be expected. This is the way it is for everything.

edit on 4-5-2012 by MaryStillToe because: (no reason given)

An experience may indeed legitimize it for an individual but in no way can it actually legitimize the idea in general.

In fact an experience had by a human is probably the furthest thing from fact and reality because humans are too flawed to be considered a trustworthy source. We ignore evidence to the contrary and subconsciously manipulate information to suit our opinions even if that info completely refutes them.

How can you trust your experiences if you know that just being born in a different location would completely change the way you perceive them.

Even if I had an experience it would be in no way legitimate to me.

reply to post by HumanCondition

I'm sorry but this is just silly, why can you not just admit you do not have any evidence?

Evidence of what? That we live in 4 measurable dimensions? Or that there are 7 we cannot measure, but are inferable by indirect means?

This is quantum physics, E=mc^2 has been proven by 14 different methods down to 19 decimal places. It's a fact.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by HumanCondition

 

I'm sorry but this is just silly, why can you not just admit you do not have any evidence?

Evidence of what? That we live in 4 measurable dimensions? Or that there are 7 we cannot measure, but are inferable by indirect means?

This is quantum physics, E=mc^2 has been proven by 14 different methods down to 19 decimal places. It's a fact.

And how does this legitimize Christianity?
I think Occams razor just imploded.

I wish i had the energy to go in depth but i just don't got it, i'm a little ill. As for being agnostic, well i was too little over a year ago, until Yeshua pushed me off the fence in his direction. I saw things i couldn't explain. Maybe one day you will too and he will push you off the fence. You may not believe in miracles but they do happen and he is real.

My wife's gall bladder was killing her a couple months ago. She also had blood in her urine from kidney stones. She couldn't hold down anything she ate and she was in so much pain that if you barely touched her she was in intense pain and was hurting bad enough to make her cry. One sunday me, a deacon and the pastor of my church laid hands on her and prayed for her to be healed. We ended up in the ER the next day to have tests run on her, and nothing was wrong, even the kidney stones were gone. They ran every kind of test possible and came back empty. To this day her doctor cannot explain it. We thanked Yeshua for the miracle healing.

Originally posted by HumanCondition

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by HumanCondition

 

I'm sorry but this is just silly, why can you not just admit you do not have any evidence?

Evidence of what? That we live in 4 measurable dimensions? Or that there are 7 we cannot measure, but are inferable by indirect means?

This is quantum physics, E=mc^2 has been proven by 14 different methods down to 19 decimal places. It's a fact.

And how does this legitimize Christianity?
I think Occams razor just imploded.

I was originally responding to someone's post.

Here bro.

reply to post by yourmaker

The major underlying question would be where does the inspiration for Christianity come from?

and if such things like a God and Satan do exist like many many people DO believe in,
where is the evidence of such? what is the basis for their creation?

If you experience supernatural phenomenon, then you interpret those within the context of your particular belief system you have found yourself in.
If you see those occurrences within a Christian framework, and not so much in, let's say, an atheistic type context, then it may lead the observer to conclude that there is truth within this belief, and not so much in the lack of belief.

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by Reddupo

 

Wow...that what a great response! While i agree, i think its also one of the most dangerous (for lack of a better term) religions in that it seems to retard the gaining of knowledge. Many of the eastern religions promote the gaining of knowledge. The Abrahamic religions seem to declare their respective holy books as the end all, be all to everything there is to know about life. This is the most disturbing part to me. I think the question the OP poses is a very valid one.

I have to agree with you. I find myself to be against any teaching that tells me the gaining of knowledge is wrong, and wisdom is sinful. Christianity is not alone in this either, in fact, the "other" book religion is also the end of all truth. I think this is why Wicca so appealed to me. Wicca involves learning anything and everything about Wicca, and everything else of a spiritual nature for one year, and one day.

I have been told, by an unnamed member in here, that I could not read and understand the Bible unless I was inspired by the Holy Spirit, which would then tell me the truth of the matter. I find this kind of teaching to be misleading, and against the gaining of knowledge.

reply to post by autowrench


Proof of Christianity:

2,000 years after the fact, scoffers are still mocking the Crucified Savior!

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by autowrench

 

Proof of Christianity:

2,000 years after the fact, scoffers are still mocking the Crucified Savior!

John 15: 18-25

18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 He who hates Me hates My Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. 25 But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’

TSHTF when he came and preached and the miracles he performed in front of the world, now they have no excuse. Their blood is on their own head.