Student's 'Jesus' shirt sparks feud with school

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

There's some very generalized statements in those quotes there. For example, Whites have fought against slavery is a very general statement. Slavery was one of the issues that the Southern Whites wanted to secede over.

And besides, some people may have been Abolitionists, but the person who ended Slavery was President Lincoln, and he didn't end it because it was the right thing to do, he did it as a strategic move to break the economy of the south. Lincoln was also a racist and didn't really like blacks.

and it is generalization for people to claim all Christians are homophobes, I made very dear friend that were gay when I was involved in New Age movement, I loved my dear male gay friends, I cleaned their homes, one while he was dying of aids, now many years ago, he was a wonderful human being and a Christian,
I don't believe in hell, and if there is a heaven he will be there, I believe in a higher power that sees the heart.

I defend the Christians that have made a positive difference in this world because there are many.

Peace, have a lovely day, I am going to go create something.

Im not sure if anyone updated, i have not read since page 25 but here it is...

Riley Gibb-Smith, a 15-year-old Australian exchange student, said William sometimes tried to evangelize students, even after they told him they weren't interested in converting to his brand of Christianity.

Riley, who wore a white T-shirt that said, “No life is wasted,” said he was approached by William three days after arriving at the school.

“He wouldn't stop,” said the Grade 10 student. “It's a constant thing. You can say, ‘I'm not interested,' but he'll continue and he'll pester.” William did not return subsequent requests for commen

It seems he wore it to stir trouble...

He was preaching, bothering even after others said no....

Source - Globe And Mail

reply to post by RyanFromCan

Well, considering my reply was not to you, it is no surprise that I did not talk about your points.

Well... considering this, this, and this were all responses directly addressed to you, I'm sure you won't be surprised that I feel that was no more than a dishonest excuse for your avoidance of my questions.

William Swinimer's actions went beyond expressions, and crossed over into harassment, that is when his right to harass others ended, his rights were not violated.

Horse crap!

That is only an intentionally distorted misrepresentation of the facts involved in this incident. Nowhere in either article is it claimed that "Swinimer's actions went beyond expressions, and crossed over into harassment". That is only your highly deceptive fiction!

Being that a shirt with a slogan such as "My life is wasted without Jesus" would have averted William's suspension, it is shown, beyond a doubt, that he was suspended ONLY because of his wearing of the T-shirt, and NOT because of any other actions.

Here's the excerpt that shows my above assertions to be true:

Nancy Pynch-Worthylake, board superintendent, said some students and teachers found the T-shirt offensive.

"When one is able or others are able to interpret it as, 'If you don't share my belief then your life is wasted,' that can be interpreted by some as being inappropriate," she said.

Refuses principal's order

Swinimer wore the T-shirt every day to class for several weeks. The principal told him repeatedly to stop wearing it, but the student refused to comply.

Swinimer says the principal would have accepted a shirt with the slogan, "My life is wasted without Jesus."

Source

Now let's address your next distortion...

Now to your attempt to take something I said out of context.

I didn't take a damn thing out of context!

In regard to this post:

I am a Christian, that being said, I know what I would have done in this situation, I would have found, and worn a "Allah Akbar!" T-shirt, and made sure he saw it constantly, no doubt he would have a problem with it, as most fauxians (just made up a new word for yall', faux+xians(Christians) ) would have.

I would stop wearing my equally offensive shirt when he did, and no doubt this young man probably was encouraged by his shepherd parents and pastor to pull this stunt, to try and get away with rubbing other peoples noses in what he considers "Christianity".

The young man was a pious, "holier than thou" religious snob for what he did, and that is NOT how you witness or evangelize, it IS however a great way to turn people off Christianity, something many who profess to be Christian manage to do with great efficiency and success.

...I accurately made the following observation:

I noticed your comment about wearing an "Allah Akbar!" shirt in protest of Swinimer's shirt. A little later in that post, you referenced both shirts as being "equally offensive".

There was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT in that observation. I just wondered why in the hell any truly religious individual would find "Allah Akbar!"offensive. "Allah Akbar!" only translates to "God is Great!". I doubt you knew that though.

The truth of the matter is that YOU TOOK YOUR OWN DAMNED POST OUT OF CONTEXT with:

I was clearly saying that he would find my "Allah Akbar!"shirt as equally offensive, as other people found his shirt.

That statement is nothing short of a dishonest attempt at avoiding these questions:

Should I take that to mean that you feel both shirts are offensive? If so, would you kindly explain why?

Considering your propensity for deception, I'm not even interested in any of your answers now.

It should be clear that any fauxians would find it offensive and why, it goes along with their lack of ability to think for themselves, I should not have to explain it to you like a child, but I will if you still can't figure it out.

Hell fire... You're the only damn "fauxian" that has posted in this entire thread! Your definition of that "word" certainly fits you like a well worn shoe.

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by RyanFromCan

Excuse me, but this happened, in Canada, in a Canadian high school, under Canadian Law, to a Canadian Person, who the radical right wing "christians" feel was violated under Canadian Law (well, some seem to think it is American law, the fools)

I had a feeling you didn't read my argument. I reckon you just proved it:

Originally posted by BenReclused
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

Remember, this is in Canada where they don't have a Bill Of Rights like America does, and has no right to free speech.

Horse crap!

Though it's not called the "Bill of Rights", Canada has the "Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms" which is very similar in it's protections. Freedom of speech is only one form of freedom of expression.

From the "Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms":

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;

(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

(d) freedom of association.

Source

Considering William Swinimer's shirt did not previously violate the school's dress code, forcing him to not wear it was a violation of his "freedom of expression". To do so for purely religious reasons would also violate his "freedom of conscience and religion".

If the school officials felt that William was harassing other students with his beliefs, they should have suspended him for "harassing other students", and not over the statement on his shirt. They likely didn't have a case to support that argument, so they used his shirt as an excuse.

The school administrator that suspended William Swinimer is guilty of discrimination by violating two of his "fundamental freedoms":
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

This whole incident has nothing to do with:
Anyone's Imaginary "Right to Not be Offended"
Christians
Separation of Church and State
Annee's Self Perceived Expertise on the Subjects of Christianity and "the Separation of Church and State"
Atheists
Gays
Homosexuals
Heterosexuals
Islam
Trolls
Idiots
Bigots (though there are many)
Abortions
Stem Cells
God
Religion
Dan Savage
You
Me
The Damn Fence Post
Or ANYTHING OTHER THAN William Swinimer's RIGHTS... which WERE MOST CERTAINLY VIOLATED!

See ya,
Milt

edit on 8-5-2012 by BenReclused because: Typo

so up yours hunny

I'd suggest that you get your head out of yours... "hunny"!

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by BenReclused


My god, I love this guy!

reply to post by Starchild23

I love you too!

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by EvilSadamClone

"Your rights end where my rights start"

what this means is that you have your rights, and the responsibility that goes along with them, but one of the responsibilities that comes with your rights, is to use them carefully as to not use them to violate someone else's rights. At the point you start to violate my rights with your rights, your rights become limited, just the same as if my exercise of my rights violated yours. Private property is an example that covers property rights, but as far as other rights, they cannot be restricted by property rights.

reply to post by BenReclused


Refusing to waste time with a troll or play to your ego does not make one a hypocrite, or a dishonest.

You are still desperately trying to take things I said, that any rational thinking person could see was what I meant, out of context.

Clearly you missed this post:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And this one:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

He was not ""just wearing a shirt", time for you to remove your cranial structure from your posterior orifice.

Oh, and Allah Akbar hunny

Originally posted by BenReclused
reply to post by RyanFromCan

 

Excuse me, but this happened, in Canada, in a Canadian high school, under Canadian Law, to a Canadian Person, who the radical right wing "christians" feel was violated under Canadian Law (well, some seem to think it is American law, the fools)

I had a feeling you didn't read my argument. I reckon you just proved it:

Originally posted by BenReclused
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

Remember, this is in Canada where they don't have a Bill Of Rights like America does, and has no right to free speech.

Horse crap!

Though it's not called the "Bill of Rights", Canada has the "Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms" which is very similar in it's protections. Freedom of speech is only one form of freedom of expression.

From the "Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms":

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;

(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

(d) freedom of association.

Source

Considering William Swinimer's shirt did not previously violate the school's dress code, forcing him to not wear it was a violation of his "freedom of expression". To do so for purely religious reasons would also violate his "freedom of conscience and religion".

If the school officials felt that William was harassing other students with his beliefs, they should have suspended him for "harassing other students", and not over the statement on his shirt. They likely didn't have a case to support that argument, so they used his shirt as an excuse.

The school administrator that suspended William Swinimer is guilty of discrimination by violating two of his "fundamental freedoms":
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

This whole incident has nothing to do with:
Anyone's Imaginary "Right to Not be Offended"
Christians
Separation of Church and State
Annee's Self Perceived Expertise on the Subjects of Christianity and "the Separation of Church and State"
Atheists
Gays
Homosexuals
Heterosexuals
Islam
Trolls
Idiots
Bigots (though there are many)
Abortions
Stem Cells
God
Religion
Dan Savage
You
Me
The Damn Fence Post
Or ANYTHING OTHER THAN William Swinimer's RIGHTS... which WERE MOST CERTAINLY VIOLATED!

See ya,
Milt

edit on 8-5-2012 by BenReclused because: Typo

so up yours hunny

I'd suggest that you get your head out of yours... "hunny"!

See ya,
Milt

Funny, this is the post of yours, that my reply was aimed at, but you know that, you are just trolling

Originally posted by BenReclused
reply to post by RyanFromCan

 

OH! The Irony, (should that be quoted?) you cannot seem to get the point that we are not talking about the US, but Rather Canada.

Now that you "got that off your chest" perhaps you would like to return to the topic of this thread, which is NOT Canada.

In an effort to get back on track, you could respond to this post? I am truly interested in reading your responses to the questions I asked of you!

See ya,
Milt

And this was my reply:

Originally posted by RyanFromCan
reply to post by BenReclused

 

Excuse me, but this happened, in Canada, in a Canadian high school, under Canadian Law, to a Canadian Person, who the radical right wing "christians" feel was violated under Canadian Law (well, some seem to think it is American law, the fools), so up yours hunny, it is very much about CANADA!

Trying to deflect a conversation, or make someone look bad by telling half-truths, is still lying.

The fact is, Billy Boy was more than just wearing a shirt

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Source

I would tell you to keep trolling, but you are not very good at it, a good troll would not be so obvious.

Originally posted by RyanFromCan

Originally posted by IronArm
reply to post by Garfee

 

I'm from a backcountry oil town in Alberta. Chev vs. Ford vs. Dodge spent alot of time being talked about.

Needless to say it got vicious.

But back to the topic at hand.

Of topic for a moment, you don't have to be from back country oil town Alberta for rig-pigs to get violent even about the simplest things, never mind the time honored great debate of Ford VS Chev VS Dodge.

I live in oil Country myself, with a lot of big ego's and even bigger tires on pick-ups.......that will never see the mud. Rig-pics really are a shallow bunch, rather sad actually.

I'm no rig pig. Nor am I violent. Nor was I, or anyone I was associated with, involved with violence. I may be from a small town, but small town Alberta generally also has some set of moral codes. We all have some sort of Christian background. But you are right...rig pigs are no heros. Except for the commonplace 16-24hr working days.

reply to post by RyanFromCan

Refusing to waste time with a troll or play to your ego does not make one a hypocrite, or a dishonest.

I agree, but that's not what I based my conclusions on. Those conclusions were based purely your own statements. It's also more than obvious that I'm not the only one that feels my observations are accurate.

Quite honestly, I feel that you only claimed to be a Christian in a deceitful attempt to bolster your own credibility on the subject of this thread. You seem to show many traits that, in reality, aren't compatible with true Christianity.

Here are the five articles, that I am currently aware of, that are linked to from within this thread. The first paragraph of each and every damn one of them explicitly states that WILLIAM SWINIMER'S SUSPENSION WAS BECAUSE OF HIS DAMN T-SHIRT!

Article Number 1 (Link posted by IronArm):

A Christian student suspended from a high school in Nova Scotia for sporting a T-shirt with the slogan "Life is wasted without Jesus" vows to wear it when he returns to class next week.

Article Number 2 (Link posted by IronArm):

A Nova Scotia student suspended from classes for five days for wearing a T-shirt with the slogan "Life Is Wasted Without Jesus" returned to school today wearing the same garment, but he was quickly taken home by his father.

Article Number 3 (Link posted by Annee):

A Canadian 12th-grader suspended for wearing a "Life Is Wasted Without Jesus" T-shirt was pulled from school by his father over a religious tolerance forum.

Article Number 4 (Link posted by yourself):

Nova Scotia student William Swinimer returned to school Monday proudly wearing the bright yellow Christian T-shirt that sparked a provincewide furor over freedom of speech and religion and got him suspended.

Article Number 5 (Link posted by luciddream):

William Swinimer returned to school Monday wearing the same T-shirt that led to his suspension and aroused a debate on religious freedom, but was abruptly pulled from class by his Bible-waving father who said his son would not take part in a discussion on tolerance.

Your persistent denial can only be attributed to one of two reasons. Even I don't believe you're that damned ignorant, so that only leaves one option: That would most obviously be your dishonesty.

He was not ""just wearing a shirt"

Perhaps not, but considering the "offense" that has always been cited for his suspension has been his refusal to stop wearing that shirt, the other actions, if true, were no more than extenuating circumstances. Is that concept really so damned difficult for you to grasp?

time for you to remove your cranial structure from your posterior orifice

My goodness! Isn't that extraordinarily original? Aren't you quite the intellect? Considering the source, I reckon it is... and... I reckon you are...

Oh, and Allah Akbar hunny

As the good Christian you claim to be, I'm sure you feel that to be true. Also, I reckon "Life is Wasted without Jesus" must be just as true for you.

Personally, I'm not sure what I should feel about either one of those phrases, but I'm certainly not offended by them. Nor am I offended by those that proffer such opinions. Hypocrisy and dishonesty, however, ARE two traits that I DO find to be VERY HIGHLY OFFENSIVE!

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by RyanFromCan


That is an interesting article you posted. So, now it seems that after they suspended him for wearing pro Jesus T shirt, the school is now trying to reach out to him to participate in their forums on free speech. That is rich! I love it. What a hoot!

Are they planning to tell him he can talk at school but he just cant wear a Jesus T shirt?

“The T-shirt is not what matters anymore,” she said. “It is very important that we move away from a narrow debate about a slogan or message on a T-shirt and on to a broader discussion of how to express our beliefs in a respectful manner and how we deal with concerns about that message.”

www.theglobeandmail.com...

So, they suspend the kid for wearing a t shirt and now they are going to continue to tell him how to express his free speech.

Also, telling people who are engaged in genuine debate with genuine arguments that they are trolling is such an old and tired trick. I have only been registered here for a year but I have become quite acqainted with this and other bullying tactics made by people without a hope of a genuine argument.

reply to post by RyanFromCan

That whole post consisted of nothing but nonsense:

Funny, this is the post of yours, that my reply was aimed at, but you know that, you are just trolling

I provided you with very well defined links that would have taken you directly to my argument, and yet YOU MISSED THEM! How the hell does your total lack of competence constitute trolling on my part? If that excuse wasn't so damn pathetic, I reckon I could have laughed at it.

Trying to deflect a conversation, or make someone look bad by telling half-truths, is still lying.

Making accusations against me because of your own lack of logic, and common sense, is also truly pathetic.

The fact is, Billy Boy was more than just wearing a shirt

That may be true, but that wasn't the basis for his suspension. Wearing the shirt, however, and also once again... MOST DEFINITELY WAS!

I would tell you to keep trolling, but you are not very good at it, a good troll would not be so obvious.

And there we have another sorry ass attempt to insult me because of your lack of a valid argument. That truly is your own fault, and has absolutely nothing to do with me!

Just so you know:
I actually take great pride in being called a troll, a shill, a paid disinfo agent, a debunker, and other such names. Those are all very telling indications that the person using those terms no longer has a valid argument. You've proven that a number of times!

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by BenReclused


What are you talking about? This whole thread is half nonsense and half rehash.

I'm surprised it's still going. And really, it's already dead...you guys just haven't realized it yet, in the middle of your semantics and childish arguing.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Schools in Canada are training their children how to protest conservative governments, promote Al Gore's lies and other various liberal agendas. Social engineering at its finest.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


God knows, the MSM has never reported just half the story, has it.

The troll (possibly yours? just wondering) is not discussing anything, he is ignoring some obvious posts that do not support his antics, but hey, that's what trolls do right?

The troll is not here for a discussion, if he/she/it was, he/she/it would not be acting the way it/she/he is, missing the obvious posts and links in this thread that do not support his/her/it's skewed point.

reply to post by MidnightTide

Schools in Canada are training their children how to protest conservative governments, promote Al Gore's lies and other various liberal agendas. Social engineering at its finest.

Or you can say it short and sweet, "Canadian schools are teaching kids to think for themselves".

reply to post by RyanFromCan

The troll is not here for a discussion, if he/she/it was, he/she/it would not be acting the way it/she/he is, missing the obvious posts and links in this thread that do not support his/her/it's skewed point.

Perhaps you should point them out to the mean old "troll"! Then you and I can discuss them. Try to keep on topic though...

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by RyanFromCan

Or you can say it short and sweet, "Canadian schools are teaching kids to think for themselves".

How are they accomplishing that by discouraging their "freedom of expression"?

See ya,
Milt

At the end of the day, anyone "offended" by a shirt has bigger problems. Like, psychological problems.

Society has become a collection of namby-pamby, feel good, afraid of offending anyone bunch of idiots.

I don't care what shirts people wear, because I don't let people offend me. Doing so gives them power over me and I won't allow that.