Our schools have become prisons and our kids are now POW's.

There is a reason that Hitler prized the Nazi youth program, that reason is that by winning the hearts and minds of the younger generation you ensure the success of the current one. There is another way of doing it though, one more sinister, more effective and more absolute. Instead of winning the hearts and mind, you simply brainwash them from the start and make them think through direct and indirect actions that any dissent, any at all will not be tolerated and they will be punished. It takes along time to do this effectively, fortunately for them, our children are in school from age 5-18 in most cases which is more than enough time to complete the task.

Let me go through some facts from from "The War on Kids" documentary from film maker Cevin Soling which illustrates quite effectively most of the problems with Americas modern public school system.

These points taken directly from a Fox News article (Yeah, I know......) that sheds some light on the issue and trust me, just because this comes from Fox who I have absolutely no respect for, it does
not diminish this problem.

In one incident, kindergarten kids were suspended for playing cops and robbers using their fingers as guns. Another student was suspended for drawing a picture of an armed soldier. In another, a six-year-old boy was suspended for waving around his breaded chicken lunch and saying “pow.” Read more: www.foxnews.com...

In what world do we now live in which we find it ok to chastise children for being children because we as adults in our society that we created for them are now finding ourselves victims of it. Think about that statement, it may be somewhat difficult to understand at first but it describes the condition we mostly find ourselves in these days.

Soling says some children considered problems are put on psychiatric medications in an effort to control them. Read more: www.foxnews.com...

In a country that wages a never ending and futile war on drugs and teaches children there is a zero tolerance for any substance the state deems inappropriate does it not seem strange that left up to them they would administer there own toxic drugs en mass to every single one of it's citizens, including our children?

“Children have no voice and childhood has become pathologized. Kids in America are horrendously oppressed and we have systems or propaganda which obscure the fact,” he explained. “The complaints people have about kids – they don’t want to read, they watch too much TV, they have no respect for authority, etc. – are all a reaction to repression.” Read more: www.foxnews.com...

How sad because it's so true, take a look around you, you may find that American adults in this country act much the same way, I wonder why that is?

The U.S. Department of Education was not able to provide comment from a rep that had seen the film. However press secretary Daren Briscoe told us that the department believes that “students learn best in class” and not when suspended. “We are obviously very engaged and concerned with making sure students receive equitable education,” Briscoe said. Read more: www.foxnews.com...

I agree, they do wan't to educate our children, they want to educate them in doing exactly what there told and educate them that there will be severe punishment for any dissent, for any action that involves freedom of expression, speech or for just being a kid.

The teach them it is ok for any reason at any time there lockers and person can be searched without reason, they teach them that it is normal to have a police station and or full time police officers inside of schools. They teach them the values of eating what your told by school board officials and not what your parents deem fit for you.

In short, they teach you how to be a good American and not how to be a good person or how to think or act independently of the state. Our school system is a sham and an outrage and it's time that we all started doing something about it, every single person with a child in public school should go to every single PTA, board meeting and speak there mind and if needed boo them right off the desk or out of the room until things start to change and in truth, in my mind, this is where the real revolution needs to start.

You seem to blame the school for everything don't forget to lay some of the blame where it belongs also. On the students and parents.

Lockers belong to the school so they can search them when they want. Don't want somebody looking through your stuff? Do what I did use a backpack.

reply to post by Helious


Remember, human beings need laws and safeguards. We are too volatile a species to not have a kill switch somewhere. Kill switches are a little inhumane, however...so instead, we have rules and guidelines that keep us putting one foot in front of the other, instead of turning around and stabbing whoever is standing behind us.

Why do little children get suspended for playing guns?

Lawsuits. In today's sue-happy climate, schools can't afford to let anyone "break the rules" of zero tolerance.

Yeah, its ridiculous. But the blame for this lies on a litagious society, not on the school system.

reply to post by smyleegrl


That's because we are balancing on a knife-edge. The less violent influence, the more likely we will be upstanding adults in an upstanding society. Provided that vision comes to fruition, we don't have to worry about homicides and accidents.

Because the technology of nowadays is so dangerous in the wrong hands, we have to be extremely careful. Our moral compass is thrown astray by the stuff that entertains us, so we have a rude awakening when we walk out of the movie theater pretending to shoot people, and police officers arrest us because we're causing a panic or setting a bad example.

We are a very unstable concoction, and the less chances taken, the better a chance we have of brewing into the perfect elixir...so to speak.

Originally posted by buster2010
You seem to blame the school for everything don't forget to lay some of the blame where it belongs also. On the students and parents.

Lockers belong to the school so they can search them when they want. Don't want somebody looking through your stuff? Do what I did use a backpack.

Yes, because saying pow pow with a chicken finger is obviously a red flag that implicates poor parenting and behavior that is completely unacceptable by the majority of people outside of government.

I would go along with your locker argument if we were talking about a company that an adult worked for but we are not, are we? What we are talking about is a government run school, something your children are required to attend and with that said, the children attending that school should be shown the same considerations of the Constitution within reason as the rest of us....... Hmmmm, I guess actually they are.

Deny ignorance my friend, why don't you look into some of the draconian actions of the institutions you are seeking to blindly defend and tell me how the blame should fall on parents and children instead of where it squarely belongs, on the back of corrupt and fundamentally flawed system that promotes totalitarianism.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Helious

 

Remember, human beings need laws and safeguards. We are too volatile a species to not have a kill switch somewhere. Kill switches are a little inhumane, however...so instead, we have rules and guidelines that keep us putting one foot in front of the other, instead of turning around and stabbing whoever is standing behind us.

edit on CThursdaypm181820f20America/Chicago03 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

Yes, rules are good, we need them and i'm not advocating anarchy for the masses nor for our children. I'm saying and very firmly that our school system as it stands does not have our children's best interest in mind. They are not teaching our children the right way to live in our country, they are not teaching them the values of our Constitution.

And please don't get me wrong, I am not pointing a finger at teachers in general, my problems mostly lie with school board members as the problems run from the top down and most teachers in general are good people who like most are victims of doing what there told.

reply to post by Helious


They are teaching children exactly what they need to know to be obedient little calves for the government, ready to be molded into the chattel that will keep this rotting system afloat. And they don't teach anything more than that.

I don't disagree with you that public education is in need of some serious reform but many of the problems that are laid at the feet of the school could be handled with parenting. I know it sounds archaic but if you're over the age of 40, you know what I'm talking about.

It appears to me that the generations behind me want the public school system to teach their children everything, how to live, what choices to make, what to eat and so on. Go to school board meeting in your town and you can probably count the number of attendees on one hand. It's easy to complain later, after the school system makes a decision on an issue but if people are so concerned they need to be proactive.

You are correct, parents need to be more involved, unfortunately, I don't see it happening.

Originally posted by DelMar
I don't disagree with you that public education is in need of some serious reform but many of the problems that are laid at the feet of the school could be handled with parenting. I know it sounds archaic but if you're over the age of 40, you know what I'm talking about.

It appears to me that the generations behind me want the public school system to teach their children everything, how to live, what choices to make, what to eat and so on. Go to school board meeting in your town and you can probably count the number of attendees on one hand. It's easy to complain later, after the school system makes a decision on an issue but if people are so concerned they need to be proactive.

You are correct, parents need to be more involved, unfortunately, I don't see it happening.

I agree that some parents in todays society do expect too much from the school system, they are not there to teach children basic concepts of morality, birds and bees and how to be a good person, they are there to educate on basic skills to ensure they have the tools to be a productive member of there society in which they live should they choose to apply the skills they have been taught.

The fact that some peoples expectation of the system exceed those parameters is unfortunate and perhaps it outlines an even bigger problem in today's America but I am inclined to believe that those people represent the much smaller percentage and the problem is stilll very much valid with the majority of parents who have realistic expectations.

Originally posted by buster2010
You seem to blame the school for everything don't forget to lay some of the blame where it belongs also. On the students and parents.

Lockers belong to the school so they can search them when they want. Don't want somebody looking through your stuff? Do what I did use a backpack.

This thread is not about searching student lockers or parents, its about children rights. Children being treated like peaty prisoners.

School is a horrible place. When I was in elementary school I got suspended ALL THE TIME for doing nothing. The assistant principle, would scream close to your face and in your ear if you got a referral. Any time a kid came out of her office they wear shaking and crying. It was traumatizing, the whole staff knew and did nothing. In middle school, they tried to arrest a group of my friends threw entrapment. In middle school they would not let us wear any kind of religious symbols. They literately told us your not a adult you have no rights. (witch is not true) How will I know what my rights are if I they are taken away from me? In high school, they did not care about the students, we wear just statistics in their eye. They only cared about getting the students to pass the states test. I randomly guess on 3 of my test (to see what would happen) and I passed all 3 some how.
The high school I went to looks like a prison, every thing is caged in, camera's all over the place. We wear treated like #.

reply to post by Infi8nity

This thread is not about searching student lockers or parents, its about children rights. Children being treated like peaty prisoners. School is a horrible place. When I was in elementary school I got suspended ALL THE TIME for doing nothing. The assistant principle, would scream close to your face and in your ear if you got a referral. Any time a kid came out of her office they wear shaking and crying. It was traumatizing, the whole staff knew and did nothing. In middle school, they tried to arrest a group of my friends threw entrapment. In middle school they would not let us wear any kind of religious symbols. They literately told us your not a adult you have no rights. (witch is not true) How will I know what my rights are if I they are taken away from me? In high school, they did not care about the students, we wear just statistics in their eye. They only cared about getting the students to pass the states test. I randomly guess on 3 of my test (to see what would happen) and I passed all 3 some how. The high school I went to looks like a prison, every thing is caged in, camera's all over the place. We wear treated like #.

I couldn't have said it any better myself, spot on brother. That is exactly what this post is about and it is becoming profoundly more important in this country for all of us that our children understand what it is to believe in freedom, our Constitutional rights and to be treated fairly. Not about kids running wild on the streets and being allowed to bring guns to school.....

Originally posted by DelMar
I don't disagree with you that public education is in need of some serious reform but many of the problems that are laid at the feet of the school could be handled with parenting. I know it sounds archaic but if you're over the age of 40, you know what I'm talking about.

It appears to me that the generations behind me want the public school system to teach their children everything, how to live, what choices to make, what to eat and so on. Go to school board meeting in your town and you can probably count the number of attendees on one hand. It's easy to complain later, after the school system makes a decision on an issue but if people are so concerned they need to be proactive.

You are correct, parents need to be more involved, unfortunately, I don't see it happening.

You hit the nail on the head.

Where I teach, its almost impossible to get parents to come in for a conference. Since the majority of my parents are single and work odd hours, I've given out my home phone number to every parent so that we can conference via phone. Parents know they can call me anytime before 11:00, and anytime on the weekends. I send home notes stating that their child is falling behind, having difficulties, etc. and to please get in touch. I leave messages on cell phones, home phones, work phones.

Not one parent has called me back. Not one. Perhaps they feel uncomfortable calling me at home, I don't know.

A few years ago I was teaching a first grade class when the mother of my new student wrote me a note. She had diapers in the child's bookbag and wanted me to transition the child to pull-ups. When I contacted her and asked why her son wasn't potty trained (sometimes there's a real medical issue and if that's the case then I have no problem helping), but mom just said she didn't have the time to potty train him.

That's just one example. There are many more; parents who come to school wearing very inappropriate attire; parents who curse the teacher, principal, and OTHER STUDENTS, parents who threaten violence (I've been threatened four times in the course of my career).

Don't misunderstand me, the US education system needs a drastic overhaul. There's a lot of problems that need to be addressed, especially NCLB. But the failure of our school system firmly rests in the hands of our society: and that includes everyone, not just school employees.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Helious

 

They are teaching children exactly what they need to know to be obedient little calves for the government, ready to be molded into the chattel that will keep this rotting system afloat. And they don't teach anything more than that.

No, we aren't.

I gave my fifth graders a debate topic inspired by ATS. They had to research other causes of the Civil War (besides slavery) and then argue for or against secession. Afterwards they had to write a reflection about the debate and their understanding of the issues; most wrote that they sided with the idea of states' rights. I thought that was extremely interesting.

My husband, who teaches middle and high school social studies, has students who consistently place in the national Social Studies competition. Last year the students wrote a dramatic play addressing health care reform. They spent weeks researching the issue, interviewing health care workers, patients, family members, then presented their findings in a really cleverly written drama. They ended up placing in the final competition.

It sounds good to assume that we teachers are simply robots, spitting out memorized facts intended to dumb down our children and mold them into zombies. But its not true. The teachers I work with are teachers because we care about children. We spend upwards of 70 hours a week working on school related items. Since the school budgets are slashed constantly, we spend our own money buying supplies for our students. We plan meaninfgul lessons, set up enjoyable field trips, constantly meet to tweak and correct curriculum and pacing guides....and our thanks is to be constantly kicked in the mouth.

I'm very sorry if this comes across as a personal attack, it is not meant that way at all. But this topic is near and dear to my heart and its hard to stay objective.

Originally posted by Infi8nity

Originally posted by buster2010
You seem to blame the school for everything don't forget to lay some of the blame where it belongs also. On the students and parents.

Lockers belong to the school so they can search them when they want. Don't want somebody looking through your stuff? Do what I did use a backpack.

This thread is not about searching student lockers or parents, its about children rights. Children being treated like peaty prisoners.

School is a horrible place. When I was in elementary school I got suspended ALL THE TIME for doing nothing. The assistant principle, would scream close to your face and in your ear if you got a referral. Any time a kid came out of her office they wear shaking and crying. It was traumatizing, the whole staff knew and did nothing. In middle school, they tried to arrest a group of my friends threw entrapment. In middle school they would not let us wear any kind of religious symbols. They literately told us your not a adult you have no rights. (witch is not true) How will I know what my rights are if I they are taken away from me? In high school, they did not care about the students, we wear just statistics in their eye. They only cared about getting the students to pass the states test. I randomly guess on 3 of my test (to see what would happen) and I passed all 3 some how.

The high school I went to looks like a prison, every thing is caged in, camera's all over the place. We wear treated like #.

I am so sorry you had this experience. What a disgraceful administrator who would yell at anyone, let alone a student. That should never have happened, and when it did happen, she should have been fired.

The caged atmosphere of high school....blame Columbine, bomb threats, gang threats, and society in general. I know the local high school where I work has been on lockdown at least five times this year because of weapons either found on campus or threats of murder made against students.

What you experienced...that breaks my heart. I truly wish I could undo it for you.

reply to post by smyleegrl


If you wouldn't mind my addressing the difficulties of effective schooling by circling the staff involved...

I think that perhaps the accepted regime of monotone lectures (so as to remove all possible flavoring that might be viewed as inappropriate by politically correct school boards) and lack of real-world applications would have something to do with this.

Basically, schools have a huge hole in their curriculum...they do not PROVE that this information they are cramming down the throats of students is actually useful in modern society, where technology does all of the brainwork. Perhaps if educational systems placed students in an environment where they can experience, in a mirrored situation of adult/young adult life (reasonably adjusted to suit the personalities involved), the usefulness and the necessity of what they are being taught...

If someone were to force you to memorize the science of poop, you wouldn't be very pleased, would you? One, it has no bearing on how you live your life, or where you're going with it; two, it's just plain unpleasant. It isn't difficult to observe exactly how this is reflected in realistic classroom atmospheres, where students aren't often shown how their lessons will directly apply in their lives 5, 10, 15 years down the road.

When you take it on faith (especially if it's difficult to master) it's harder to swallow. Children are not known for patience, so give them a good reason to play along...one they can see clearly benefits them in the long run. They work better with stuff that is blatantly obvious...they're young, give them a break. Give them hands-on examples, and you might see some more cooperation. Take it from a young'un, if you will.

reply to post by smyleegrl

I am so sorry you had this experience. What a disgraceful administrator who would yell at anyone, let alone a student. That should never have happened, and when it did happen, she should have been fired. The caged atmosphere of high school....blame Columbine, bomb threats, gang threats, and society in general. I know the local high school where I work has been on lockdown at least five times this year because of weapons either found on campus or threats of murder made against students. What you experienced...that breaks my heart. I truly wish I could undo it for you.

People are a product of there environment and if you are going to blame "society" you must blame the system that has produced that society in question. I empathize with you in your struggles to teach but this problem does not lay with individual teachers in general, it lies within the policies and actions of our school system in general.

The school system in America is becoming a autocratic experience for our kids. The system promotes government driven propaganda and idealism and that is something it was never meant to do. Freedom of religion is being silenced, freedom of speech is being silenced and the children are being taught from a young age that they have no rights under the Constitution.

Now, as far as you go and your position, I have nothing but respect for you. I wish there were a million others like you, that said, my problem was never with you, it starts with every principle and goes straight up from there.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

If you wouldn't mind my addressing the difficulties of effective schooling by circling the staff involved...

I think that perhaps the accepted regime of monotone lectures (so as to remove all possible flavoring that might be viewed as inappropriate by politically correct school boards) and lack of real-world applications would have something to do with this.

Basically, schools have a huge hole in their curriculum...they do not PROVE that this information they are cramming down the throats of students is actually useful in modern society, where technology does all of the brainwork. Perhaps if educational systems placed students in an environment where they can experience, in a mirrored situation of adult/young adult life (reasonably adjusted to suit the personalities involved), the usefulness and the necessity of what they are being taught...

If someone were to force you to memorize the science of poop, you wouldn't be very pleased, would you? One, it has no bearing on how you live your life, or where you're going with it; two, it's just plain unpleasant. It isn't difficult to observe exactly how this is reflected in realistic classroom atmospheres, where students aren't often shown how their lessons will directly apply in their lives 5, 10, 15 years down the road.

When you take it on faith (especially if it's difficult to master) it's harder to swallow. Children are not known for patience, so give them a good reason to play along...one they can see clearly benefits them in the long run. They work better with stuff that is blatantly obvious...they're young, give them a break. Give them hands-on examples, and you might see some more cooperation. Take it from a young'un, if you will.

edit on CThursdaypm212110f10America/Chicago03 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

Everything you just mentioned is spot-on. Exactly right. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Here in NC we are adopting a new curriculum that goes into effect this fall. I have great hopes for this curriculum. Instead of giving children information, we now guide children to discover the information for themselves. I can't wait, its going to be so much fun watching their excitement as they make those connections and begin to realize the real-life implications of the material.

To address one point you made, we don't all lecture (at least in elementary school). There's ample research that demonstrates the different learning styles, and I know at my school our lesson plans must address auditory, visual, and kinesthetic learners. These are checked weekly by our administration AND by our central office.

The hands-on approach is one of the reasons I loved science and math in elementary school. It was like playing games....and a lot of fun. This year we were exploring force and motion, and it segued into basic principals of flight (the kids were so interested that I just went with it). We studied how planes are built, how birds fly, then designed a couple of different paper airplanes and had a contest to see which desgin worked the best. Honestly, I don't know who enjoyed it more....my first graders or myself.

So yeah, the public school system needs to change and catch up with the times. I agree with you there.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Just to be clear, I am in my 20's and dropped out of college due to the very reasons I have outlined in my previous post. Because of my lack of a degree and lack of age experience (pfft. I've seen older people make complete asses out of themselves) I am often underestimated. Yet, my insight and perception (which I try to balance to all possible ends, knowing the power of preconception and bias) has allowed me to see more than any school could have taught me. My point being, I speak for experience. Also, I want to make it clear that not all young'uns (teehee) are completely inept at realizing the issues in our current system. It's a little bit of a sore spot for me.

It's time for a revolution on all levels...the question is, how to revolt and not cause more damage than we do progression?

Let's hope your school's example spreads to the rest of the country.

I do complain somewhat about my children's schools.They hate PE, music and drama because they do not like to be watched.

I must admit though that the school is not bad in other areas.

My children are very bright, have been raised to respect others and such they enjoy school on the whole but on frequent mornings they cry, beg and plead to stay home. The reasons they give are the lessons mentioned but also and more importantly, the other kids!! The pressure they are under from other kids is dreadful. They could cope with the rest if their peer group was more supportive.

I don't know if this is just a UK thing but the pressure from other kids for them to behave a certain way is stronger than the pressure from teachers encouraging them to do well and conform to what the government wants of them.

It is two very different sections of society are at war in the schools. Broken society ie poor parenting, lack of sleep, awful diet, TV, Social media trends, gaming so on and so forth.

I honestly do not know how teachers cope, trying to get children who will not engage in anything unless they choose to, who are so used to having everything they desire at their finger tips. The governments are trying to guard against the problems they have created. We have had so much freedom for so long and what did we do with it? We made bad choices, allowed the bad stuff become so pervasive that our children can not avoid it.

We have created an environment in which they look at what we are spending our money on and our time doing and in all honesty it does make you look down on western society in general. Individuals are bloody lovely great, fantastic people but society as a whole is sick and twisted. Fat, stupid, lazy, selfish and wilfully ignorant of their own faults.

Schools do need the safe guards they have in place to protect teachers and pupils.
Society when viewed from an outside perspective based on it's habits, need the safe guards being gradually introduced. It is wrong and it is necessary...weird!!! I don't believe it but it is true.

My eldest daughter got her class meditating this week, she was supported by her teacher too, she was delighted! Me too

I'm actually surprised by what I just wrote, I usually see the best in every situation. It's sad. Flame me now.