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NDEs: Heaven and Hell

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posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
I admit the hell part is tough. How can he let so many go there? If one wants to believe in the Bible, they have to understand that sin can not be in the presence of God.
I argued this with NoturTypical. I reminded him that Satan is often in the presence of the biblical god, as in the story of Job. He then said that beings of sinful flesh could not be in the presence of god, so that's how Satan could be in god's presence. But, when we die, we're not in flesh so that means we could still be in his presence. So, which is it? Can we be in his presence just like Satan, the father of sin can be, or can we not?


Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
I do know there were two trees in the middle of the garden, and one was the tree of life.
This point goes off topic, but is interesting to me. I was taught that Adam and Eve were created as immortals. But, if that is the case, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life? It would only be a normal tree to them because they are already immortal, so why have that tree in the garden? Remember, god kicked them out of the garden for the sole purpose of not letting them eat from that tree because they would live forever if they did. So again, if they were created immortal, what was the purpose of that tree?


Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
We could not uncorrupt ourselves.
And the just, fitting punishment for us is to torture us forever in fire? We don't even torture the worst criminals on planet earth. Are we not "just" enough since we don't torture them for the rest of their life?


Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
Maybe the sin is something we didn't or couldn't really comprehend. What ever it was Jesus was able to undo. He got rid of the corruption that keeps us separated from God.
This god created the rules. He created the idea that blood had to be shed so that he could forgive us. Does that make any sense? Then, he created a loophole to get us out of this, and that is he sent his son, which is himself, to come to earth and die for our sins as the ultimate sacrifice of himself to himself. Now, all we have to do is muster the faith to believe this silliness and we can live with him forever. But, if we can't muster it, we deserve to be tortured forever.






edit on 4-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
It's a teaching method. The school of hard knocks. Experience is the best teacher. If we've never known adversity, pain, grief, worry, suffering....never witnessed it in others, never felt our hearts break for the suffering of our own children or loved ones, we can't fully appreciate the perfect bliss we are born to. In fact, I think parenting is perhaps the MOST IMPORTANT thing we do here.
What about all the miscarriages, aborted babies, and newborn babies that die? They just don't get the experience? Do they just get a free ticket to heaven with no threat of burning forever? That's the best way to go in my opinion.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


To my understanding, via a spiritual teacher I studied under, babies who die by whatever cause made the journey in order to teach others something. I believe we all have a Individualized Plan, or at least our coursework is unique to our soul, and between lives each soul is given options and has conferences (so to speak) with ethereal guides and ascended masters.

A baby who dies young is a soul who for whatever reason of that individual soul's development chose to come and live that brief time in order to help the others their tiny life affected. They go back "home", and move on. If they were already ascended and came ONLY to do that, I guess they can choose to stay there or come back again. If they aren't yet ready to ascend for eternity, they'll come back and live a different lifetime instead.

It's all means to the end: once the soul learns all the lessons necessary, by interacting with other souls, then they are ascended to perfect bliss.

Like Jesus. They are masters.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
To my understanding, via a spiritual teacher I studied under, babies who die by whatever cause made the journey in order to teach others something. I believe we all have a Individualized Plan, or at least our coursework is unique to our soul, and between lives each soul is given options and has conferences (so to speak) with ethereal guides and ascended masters.

A baby who dies young is a soul who for whatever reason of that individual soul's development chose to come and live that brief time in order to help the others their tiny life affected. They go back "home", and move on. If they were already ascended and came ONLY to do that, I guess they can choose to stay there or come back again. If they aren't yet ready to ascend for eternity, they'll come back and live a different lifetime instead.

It's all means to the end: once the soul learns all the lessons necessary, by interacting with other souls, then they are ascended to perfect bliss.

Like Jesus. They are masters.
What's the point of souls learning things? What's the goal? What does it matter? Does it help them get better jobs? What does a soul do with this information?

EDIT: Nevermind, you answered that in your post, lmao.


Ok, so they reach perfect bliss. Now what?
edit on 4-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 09:02 AM
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Something else I would like to say is that I was watching a guy named Howard Storm who says he died and went to hell. While there, he said that people wanted to cause him pain and tear him apart. First, he wasn't in his body, so how could he be torn apart and have pain?

Next, he said while in hell, he cried out to Jesus and Jesus helped him. I've heard of this happening before. When in hell, cry out to Jesus and he comes to save you.

Then after he told his story he said that all you have to do is ask Jesus and he will come to you. I've done this many times. I even tried right after I watched that video of Howard Storm. I spoke out loud to Jesus and asked him to let me meet him, have a conversation with him....anything. I did put one stipulation in there though. I said that thoughts in my head would not count, because I could easily delude myself, as I have seen many, many people do in the past. I figured he would understand my reasoning on that. I also spoke and said that he sees my heart, my motives, and everything, there's nothing I could hide from him. So, he would see that I was sincere and really wanted to speak to him personally. Yet, nothing happened...and nothing ever happens.

What it seems to me is that I need to die and go to hell, then call out to him and see if he shows up.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 



So, he would see that I was sincere and really wanted to speak to him personally. Yet, nothing happened...and nothing ever happens.

What it seems to me is that I need to die and go to hell, then call out to him and see if he shows up.

Maybe your expectations and impatience are getting in the way of the connection?
No, you don't need to "go to Hell" (we're in "Hell" now
)
Don't know if you're much of a reader, but the Tibetan Book of the Dead explains what happens to the dying (n their tradition anyway), how the experience first is one of terror and monsters based on the negative karma they've generated...and is purely a figment of their imagination.

The guru in attendance continues to coach and guide the dying even after they've departed, like a guide or tutor, letting them know that what they are seeing is not real, and cannot harm them...and that once they have endured the fearful parts, the terrifying parts, although feeling all alone, eventually that passes; the karma is washed clean, and the soul then rejoins the ethereal group to decide on the next reincarnation - when, where, to whom, what station in life, etc.

As for your other question...."then what?" They are united with the Divine Source in that blissful peace that our minds are too primitive to grasp completely while going to Earth school. They become teachers, guides, resting souls, and dwell in peace everlasting. That's as close as I can come to wrapping my head around it...



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
Maybe your expectations and impatience are getting in the way of the connection?
How am I being impatient? I waited all night long, lol. I didn't even masturbate that night in case he showed up. That would have been embarrassing.


Originally posted by wildtimes
As for your other question...."then what?" They are united with the Divine Source in that blissful peace that our minds are too primitive to grasp completely while going to Earth school. They become teachers, guides, resting souls, and dwell in peace everlasting. That's as close as I can come to wrapping my head around it...
If that is true, I guess that'd be cool.
edit on 4-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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I was in a car accident 14 years ago. It happened in the early morning hours. I was alone when it happened. I drove my car off the road into two thick trees. The impact on my right door from one of the trees broke my pelvis in two and my it ripped my right leg out and broke it on the top in 3 places. I went into instant shock i guess from the impact, I don,t remember feeling any pain. BUT, what happened next was really strange. I fell asleep. During this 'sleep' I experienced I found myself outside the car(not seeing myself physically, but I was in 1st person) looking at the damage on the front end of the car and the right door/roof. Now, I did not see myself inside the car. I still remember telling myself aloud that the damage ain't that bad and could easily be fixed. After this, I can't remember anything.

Anyway, I woke up in hospital and they told me they had serious trouble stabilizing me when they found me. They claim I must have been between those trees for a couple of hours before the paramedics showed up. They say they lost me for a few seconds here and there then they got me back and ready to transport.

Now, here is the odd part. While I was recovering at hospital, I told my brother that I will fix the car because the damage is not that bad. He told me it's not possible because the car is a write-off. I couldn't believe because in my mind I perceived the damage as not being bad at all and fixable(maybe because of the dream/ OBE/NDE?).

When I saw the car later on I realized why my brother said it's a write-off...they cut the roof off with the jaws to get me out. BUT I remember the roof was still intact in the dream/OBE/NDE) Now, it could be that I was looking at the car before the paramedics showed up, only problem is, it took me 18 months to learn to walk again after that accident...I can remember myself standing next tt that car, it's so vivid, it feels like yesterday...



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman
Something else I would like to say is that I was watching a guy named Howard Storm who says he died and went to hell. While there, he said that people wanted to cause him pain and tear him apart. First, he wasn't in his body, so how could he be torn apart and have pain?

Next, he said while in hell, he cried out to Jesus and Jesus helped him. I've heard of this happening before. When in hell, cry out to Jesus and he comes to save you.

Then after he told his story he said that all you have to do is ask Jesus and he will come to you. I've done this many times. I even tried right after I watched that video of Howard Storm. I spoke out loud to Jesus and asked him to let me meet him, have a conversation with him....anything. I did put one stipulation in there though. I said that thoughts in my head would not count, because I could easily delude myself, as I have seen many, many people do in the past. I figured he would understand my reasoning on that. I also spoke and said that he sees my heart, my motives, and everything, there's nothing I could hide from him. So, he would see that I was sincere and really wanted to speak to him personally. Yet, nothing happened...and nothing ever happens.

What it seems to me is that I need to die and go to hell, then call out to him and see if he shows up.


You have to understand that Howard Storm's predicament was vastly different than your own. He was sick and he died. You on the other hand are quite healthy. The experiences of the sick and dying are quite different from the spiritual experiences the living have. Apparently, you have a healthy appetite for some real tangible knowledge. If all this stuff you are reading and learning about is so wonderfuly true, Hydroman wants to be a part of it.

Do you want to really know Jesus? To experience his glory for yourself? To have your mind blown by the power of God? Let me tell you something, if you decide to go for it and you get a taste of it, there is no turning back. There is nothing like him and his love. Have you ever been in love? Literally knocked off your feet where you couldn't stand let alone open your eyes? That is what Jesus has to offer for those who set their mind to it.

Do you want him?
edit on 4-5-2012 by Myrtales Instinct because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
Do you want to really know Jesus? To experience his glory for yourself? To have your mind blown by the power of God? Let me tell you something, if you decide to go for it and you get a taste of it, there is no turning back. There is nothing like him and his love. Have you ever been in love? Literally knocked off your feet where you couldn't stand let alone open your eyes? That is what Jesus has to offer for those who set their mind to it.

Do you want him?
Sure, why not? Let's do this.
edit on 4-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:29 AM
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There is a book about heaven and hell, it's called Divine revelations of heaven and Divine revelations of hell and it's about a woman that was taken by Jesus to show her what it was like in Heaven and hell. her name is Mary K Baxter but here are some things to read on children from the bible. Mathew 19:14,Mathew 18:3-4,Mark 10:15,Mark 9:37, Old Testament Joel 1:3.

This is a snippet of the book by Mary K. Baxter's Devine Revelations of Heaven

Unborn Babies
When the Angel of god said, "Come and see," he moved his hand in the air, and a vision of a hospital appeared. I saw a woman in the labor room, having a child.
The angel of the Lord said to me, "She's is having a miscarriage. The baby is only three months old."
As I took in the scene, two beautiful angels appeared by her bed. In their hands they held what looked like a basket made of white marble and pearl. It was the most beautifull thing i have ever seen. It opened up in the center and closed on each side.
The Angels were praising God. I could hear them. When the woman had a the misscarriage, the baby's spirit, like vapor arose from that little teeny baby. The angels of God caught it, put it in the basket, closed the lid, and raised their hands toward heaven.

I saw the hand come out of the cloud and open up the basket. It took that little soul out of the basket and laid it on the alter. Then I saw hands begin to work on this little soul.
When the task was finished and completed, the most beautiful, perfect form of a human began to appear. it continued to develop until it became the most handsome young man I have ever seen.

God makes you whole and if you lose an arm on earth, you will be made whole in heaven and that's how God works and the way she describes heaven is beautiful.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by WarriorOfLight96
The Angels were praising God. I could hear them. When the woman had a the misscarriage, the baby's spirit, like vapor arose from that little teeny baby. The angels of God caught it, put it in the basket, closed the lid, and raised their hands toward heaven.
Here is what I see when I read this story. The angels lifted their hands toward heaven. So, heaven is up in the sky somewhere? What are the coordinates? Heaven just happened to be right up above them? Or, does heaven encircle the whole earth? Is it in the sky?


Originally posted by LeftySinister
I saw the hand come out of the cloud and open up the basket. It took that little soul out of the basket and laid it on the alter. Then I saw hands begin to work on this little soul.
When the task was finished and completed, the most beautiful, perfect form of a human began to appear. it continued to develop until it became the most handsome young man I have ever seen.
Jeez, how long was she there?


Originally posted by LeftySinister
God makes you whole and if you lose an arm on earth, you will be made whole in heaven and that's how God works and the way she describes heaven is beautiful.
So he makes us look human again? Why couldn't he give us 2 extra arms? Or two heads? Or make us like 30 feet tall if we want to be that tall? Why is he making us look like our human selves from earth?



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


40 nights she was shown hell and heaven, you are made in Gods image.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by WarriorOfLight96
reply to post by Hydroman
 


40 nights she was shown hell and heaven, you are made in Gods image.
Ah, so god has the same features we do? He has eyes, ears, nose, mouth, teeth, two arms, two legs, etc.? Let me ask you this then, before he created the whole universe, what was the purpose of him having those features? What was he seeing with his eyes? What was he hearing with his ears? What was he smelling with his nose? What was he tasting with his tongue? What was he holding with his hands? Where was he walking with his feet?



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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Here is what I see when I read this story. The angels lifted their hands toward heaven. So, heaven is up in the sky somewhere? What are the coordinates? Heaven just happened to be right up above them? Or, does heaven encircle the whole earth? Is it in the sky?

The first heaven is an atmosphere around the earth, it is where the birds fly and the winds blow. this is where showers,storms, mists, vapors, and clouds appear and are formed.

The second heaven is where the moon and the stars, and the planets reside

The third heaven is the destination of the righteous, however, is beyond the atmosphere and the starry skies. 2 Corinthians 12:2 NIV speaks of this and is where God lives.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


That is what we can ask him when we get their, I'm sure that when he did smell, and what he did see, and tasted and and stood on was was that of love and nothing more.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by WarriorOfLight96
The third heaven is the destination of the righteous, however, is beyond the atmosphere and the starry skies. 2 Corinthians 12:2 NIV speaks of this and is where God lives.
But we could point our satellites in it's direction and see it?



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by WarriorOfLight96
reply to post by Hydroman
 


That is what we can ask him when we get their, I'm sure that when he did smell, and what he did see, and tasted and and stood on was was that of love and nothing more.
Love of himself? He was the only one there...



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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you don't have eyes to see it and you have no ears to hear it.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


Love is many things and it's the person next to you and it's the thing you care about and its ground you walk on, Love has many aspects and if you love your self than you are happy.
edit on 4-5-2012 by WarriorOfLight96 because: (no reason given)




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