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NDEs: Heaven and Hell

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posted on May, 3 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Hello guys and gals of Religion, Faith, and Theology,

Recently I have watched videos of people who have had NDEs and went to either Heaven or Hell in their experience. They talk about the things they saw, such as the people, the environments, etc. There are also people who post here who have had NDEs. So, I have a few questions, as always.


When one has an NDE, they often see their own body as they float away. This thing that floats away is either their soul or spirit, or both. I guess it just depends on how you look at it.


Anyway, as they float away, they sometimes end up in places that they consider to be Heaven or Hell. In both of these places, the person experiencing the NDE sees other people who have passed on. In Heaven, sometimes they see loved ones that passed on before them. In Hell they see people being tortured in fire, or in a blood like substance, or it's just a feeling of darkness and loneliness.

My question is this: The people who they see in Heaven or Hell have bodies, or some kind of form in which they recognize them to be human, or even look the same as they did on earth. How is this possible? The bodies of the deceased are lying in graves on planet earth, or have been cremated. Does this mean that the spirit or soul looks EXACTLY as the body in which it inhabited?

Next, when I ask someone who has had an NDE "What does your own body look like?" they say that they didn't know whether or not they had a body. It is just some kind of energy. So, my next question is why does the person experiencing an NDE not have a regular looking body, but those they see who have passed on DO have a body? Why do those who are being tortured in Hell have a body, and those in Heaven have a recognizable body? Again, do souls and spirits look exactly like their physical counterparts? If so, what is the purpose of getting a glorified body in heaven if you already have a form there and are doing just fine without it?

The book Heaven is for Real is about a 3 year old boy who died momentarily and went to heaven. While there, he sees his sister who died in a miscarriage. His sister is a little girl in heaven. How is this possible? When she miscarried, she was more than likely an embryo. Why is she a little girl in heaven? Is she growing up in heaven? Can you age there? Why isn't she a woman in heaven? If a 50 year person dies on earth, can they become a child in heaven? How does this work?

When I have a vivid dream, I see people pretty clearly. But, what I don't see is my own body. This seems pretty similar to NDEs.
edit on 3-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 3 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 



When I have a vivid dream, I see people pretty clearly. But, what I don't see is my own body. This seems pretty similar to NDEs.

That is how ALL of my dreams are. I am experiencing them, not seeing myself doing so. VERY cool, in my opinion. Thanks for the thread, I'm fascinated by this subject.

s/f

EDIT TO ADD; and the coolest part of that is I get to spend time with my Dad, who died almost two years ago. Talk to him, interact with him, go do stuff with him. and he's FINE. I believe dreaming is very much parallel dimension existence that our soul engages in while our bodies need to rest. Our souls don't need to sleep.

Love this stuff. It's fabulous.
edit on 3-5-2012 by wildtimes because:



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Because in reality everything is energy, of course if you are sensing the energy of a loved one who pasted away, it would probably show up as the person that they looked like in life.

As for the miscarriage, The energy of the girl is just showing itself of how it would have looked if she survived.


The energy of a person can either appear in a certain for to people OR the person will see them in a way that makes sense...

This also explains why some people see Jesus, Buddha, or whatever prophet or god they believed in because it is just energy and the PERSON is translating that energy into what makes sense to them.



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


S&F for thread,

and about the kids growing up in heaven - there are different levels of heaven. Spirits can be raised and matured in heaven just as they are on earth. The way I understand Heaven is that it's a physical realm just like ours - but much more vibrant, more "real". This "reality" we experience is more like a dream than reality.....



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by Iason321

S&F for thread,

and about the kids growing up in heaven - there are different levels of heaven. Spirits can be raised and matured in heaven just as they are on earth. The way I understand Heaven is that it's a physical realm just like ours - but much more vibrant, more "real". This "reality" we experience is more like a dream than reality.....
If spirits can be raised and matured in heaven like on earth, why doesn't this god just let us be born in heaven and live with him immediately, especially if that's what he wants anyways? Then, if we decide we don't want to be there, like Lucifer did, he can let us leave, like he did with Lucifer.

Heck, if that boy's sister was miscarried and got to go to heaven and be raised there, that seems to be the way to go! Now I wish I was miscarried. I mean, if god allows that to happen, why wouldn't he allow all of us to be born there? It's the same thing. She wasn't born on earth, she was born in heaven...
edit on 3-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Care to go into more details on this?

I've for a long time held a belief that dreams were connected to the "outer realms" or Sheol, I'd like to hear more stories or explanations regarding this view....thanks



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Iason321
Care to go into more details on this?

I've for a long time held a belief that dreams were connected to the "outer realms" or Sheol, I'd like to hear more stories or explanations regarding this view....thanks
Dreams only occur in your head. It's brain activity. I have dreams of my deceased brother all the time and we hang out. Sometimes he is healthy, sometimes he isn't. Sometimes he goes back to his wife, who is married to someone else at the moment. They are just dreams, created by my mind...however complicated it may be.



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


I've asked that same question plenty of times,

The best answer I can come up with is this:

This is all either a test or a game in Gods mind, or some kind of simulation......

God has a sense of humor too, I was reading on here this morning about someone who had a miracle happen to them while praying on the toilet, and I've also had a miracle occur while praying on the toilet, God definitely is a funny "guy", haha.



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


How do you know that?

What if its all being manipulated from outer realms regardless of how nonsensical they are?

What if everything really is occuring in your head and nothing more but chemical responses etc, but those mechanisms going on in your head are being triggered or influenced by realms existing alongside ours?



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by Iason321
How do you know that?

What if its all being manipulated from outer realms regardless of how nonsensical they are?

What if everything really is occuring in your head and nothing more but chemical responses etc, but those mechanisms going on in your head are being triggered or influenced by realms existing alongside ours?
Because there are times that I realize that I am dreaming. So, when that happens, I become superpowered, lol. I can fight 100 people at the same time and defeat all of them. I can defeat demons. I can fly, deflect bullets, be stabbed and not care...etc.



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by Iason321
 


Sure, but not in this thread...it's Hydroman's, and going into more regarding my post would be off-topic. I would like to find out what folks have to say about NDE's -- they seem the closest we can get to the "real experience".
but...check out the link below:
reply to post by Hydroman
 


Here's a great Ted-Talk, though, written by a neurologist who had a stroke and experienced the other side:
Jill Bolte Taylor's powerful stroke of insight
www.ted.com...
Talk about mind-blowing. Wow...
My daughter fwd it to me several months ago. (She rocks!)
Check it out.
edit on 3-5-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
Because in reality everything is energy, of course if you are sensing the energy of a loved one who pasted away, it would probably show up as the person that they looked like in life.
But when those people meet others they didn't know, how do they appear to them? What kind of form are they in? What is communication like? There are no vocal cords to speak with, nor ears to receive the sounds. Nor a brain to make it all work...


Originally posted by arpgme
As for the miscarriage, The energy of the girl is just showing itself of how it would have looked if she survived.
But why as a little girl? Why not as a woman? Or an old lady?


Originally posted by arpgme
The energy of a person can either appear in a certain for to people OR the person will see them in a way that makes sense...
See them with what? Their eyes are in their body back on earth.


Originally posted by arpgme
This also explains why some people see Jesus, Buddha, or whatever prophet or god they believed in because it is just energy and the PERSON is translating that energy into what makes sense to them.
I wish that made sense.
edit on 3-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
Sure, but not in this thread...it's Hydroman's, and going into more regarding my post would be off-topic. I would like to find out what folks have to say about NDE's -- they seem the closest we can get to the "real experience".
but...check out the link below:
reply to post by Hydroman
 


Here's a great Ted-Talk, though, written by a neurologist who had a stroke and experienced the other side:
Jill Bolte Taylor's powerful stroke of insight
www.ted.com...
Talk about mind-blowing. Wow...
My daughter fwd it to me several months ago. (She rocks!)
Check it out.

First, I don't mind you going off topic to tell your story.

Second, if anyone hasn't watched the video that Wild posted, it is AMAZING.

What I gather from that video though, is that the left side brain is the logic side. The right side of our brain is the "spiritual" side. Her left brain shut down, which meant only her right brain side was still alive. That's why she experienced the Nirvana. Maybe NDEs happen when the right side over takes the left side? It's not really anyone leaving their body, it's just a function of the right side brain.

It's cool how she says that we have two minds in our body. This is also proven with split-brained patients who have had their corpus collosum cut in half.



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Iason321
This is all either a test or a game in Gods mind, or some kind of simulation......

God has a sense of humor too, I was reading on here this morning about someone who had a miracle happen to them while praying on the toilet, and I've also had a miracle occur while praying on the toilet, God definitely is a funny "guy", haha.
It's not a good sense of humor if he punishes forever in eternal hellfire if we fail at his game.



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


Okay then....but it'll take a little time, and I don't have that at the moment...
I'll be back later.

And, yeah,
EVERYONE, WATCH THE VIDEO!!



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


God is a just judge,

There is nobody burning in eternal hellfire who isn't deserving of it,

Most go to the lighter realms of Sheol, there's not many spirits in tartaroo as you describe



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman
But when those people meet others they didn't know, how do they appear to them? What kind of form are they in? What is communication like? There are no vocal cords to speak with, nor ears to receive the sounds. Nor a brain to make it all work...


They are in a form of energy. No vocal cords needed, the images, sounds, intentions, can be sent to another person through telepathy.


Originally posted by Hydroman
But why as a little girl? Why not as a woman? Or an old lady?


Either this was the appearance most comfortable for the boy, or the girl wanted to show how she would look NOW had she survived. Not really sure why an energetic form would choose an appearance that it does, that is more of a personal question.


Originally posted by Hydroman See them with what? Their eyes are in their body back on earth.

Energy embeds the information of all existent things (sight, audio, taste, and sensation)


Originally posted by Hydroman
I wish that made sense.


If a person has been raised all their life to believe that they will see "Lord Bob" when they die, the energy that they can perceive after death, they may put Lord Bob's human face on it to make the experience more comfortable instead of just sensing it as an "energy".



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by Iason321
There is nobody burning in eternal hellfire who isn't deserving of it,
No one deserves to be tortured for eternity. There's nothing that anybody on this earth can do to be tortured forever, and ever, and ever, and ever, and ever, and ever....etc. I mean, WE don't even do that to the worst criminals.


Originally posted by Iason321
Most go to the lighter realms of Sheol, there's not many spirits in tartaroo as you describe
Not according to those who have died on gone to hell in an NDE...if you believe NDEs are real.



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme
They are in a form of energy. No vocal cords needed, the images, sounds, intentions, can be sent to another person through telepathy.
Without a body, what is receiving these telepathic communications? What is giving these telepathic communications? Why are they telepathic and not audible?



Originally posted by arpgme
Either this was the appearance most comfortable for the boy, or the girl wanted to show how she would look NOW had she survived. Not really sure why an energetic form would choose an appearance that it does, that is more of a personal question.
If the boy is outside of his body, would he still think like a boy? He's not using his young boy brain to think and reason with, if he's out of his body. Once out of the body, why aren't we super geniuses since we aren't being restricted by our fleshly brains?


Originally posted by arpgme
Energy embeds the information of all existent things (sight, audio, taste, and sensation)
How?


Originally posted by arpgme
If a person has been raised all their life to believe that they will see "Lord Bob" when they die, the energy that they can perceive after death, they may put Lord Bob's human face on it to make the experience more comfortable instead of just sensing it as an "energy".
What does comfort have to do with anything when you're not in your body?



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 

Great questions.
Many of which I still ponder myself, because in all actuality we really won't know until we get there.
Many will tell you this or that and the Bible, itself, is very vague on the subject and leaves quite a bit to imagination.
I've decided to post my reply before reading the rest of the responses to your thread.

For starters, I believe the Bible seems vague on this subject on purpose.
Purpose number one-- finite, mortal human beings have difficulty in grasping infinite, immortal concepts. We can postulate and pontificate on non-linear time, lack of constant variables, unmeasurable resources and paradoxes in known universal "laws", but the only fact we will conclude is that it is all truly conjecture until we experience it firsthand. Period.
I consider "certainty in my conjecture" as the definition of "faith".....if that makes any sense at all.

Purpose number two-- if God wanted us to know and understand in explicit detail, then He would have included it in the Bible somewhere. Haters can argue all they want about the validity of the Bible, when it was written, what original manuscript whichever copy was translated from, by whom, ad nauseum. I am certain in my conjecture that the information God wanted us to know has made it through the millennia unadulterated and unscathed. I believe He is fully capable of making sure His truth reaches each and every soul He already knew/knows would recognize the Truth and accept it.
Besides, why address and include information that we couldn't possibly comprehend?

Now, as far as NDE's are concerned, I think it is paramount that you remain acutely aware that the process of the soul disconnecting from the body STILL HAPPENS IN A CREATED REALM.
Meaning? When the soul leaves the body, it is still within the confines, limits and scope of creation.
More specifically, the aerial realm. New Age gurus call it the astral plane. Jesus calls it a vast chasm or great gulf which has been placed between terra firma and coeli excelsis. (see Luke 16:26)
Having said that, I would deduce that we are still subject to the same emotions and persuasions as we would be in the flesh, sans the flesh, thus we would also be without persuasions solely instigated by the wants, needs & desires of the body (ie: food, sleep, etc.). However, any persuasion we may have had with our flesh that also affected us emotionally would be carried with us (ie: lust, greed, etc.)
In other words, in the aerial realm our soul would still be subject to temptation and deception.
By that rationale, NDE's are subjective to the person having the experience.

I speculate that most NDE's are a combination of the medical science of our dying brain, our personal expectations and most importantly, our personal perception.
I believe that God has safeguards in place, such as "guardian angels," if you will, to assist the soul in this new & unfamiliar state.
I believe that our spiritual body is not something that can be readily explained or understood by a living human being. It is something that must be experienced, and even then, if it was part of the NDE, the person who experienced it simply cannot relate it because they have no way of explaining it.
I understand that we will "recognize" people, but I speculate that our recognition has more to do with our perception of the other person's essence, than any actual visual components. Keep in mind the science behind our vision and the process by which we comprehend it in our fleshly bodies and the fact that once our soul is separated from our flesh, we are no longer seeing things with our eyeballs. Thus, the very act of "seeing", in and of itself, is incomprehensibly different than what we know and experience now.
In our soul state, how we recognize someone may be their subconcious projection of their perception of themselves, our perception of that persons essence/personality, or a combination of both, or neither.

Personally, I want to look like I did in a bikini in Cabo San Lucas in 1999. I choose that as my subconcious perception of myself. Kidding. Sort of.

As far as infants that have been aborted or miscarried, no one can definitively answer your question because we simply don't know. All we know is what is related to us through hearsay and allegations. The Bible does not address this point.
My personal speculation is that these souls "look" like who they would have become, the innate personality, notwithstanding any potential environmental influence that would have been experienced had they lived.
The little boy's perception of his unborn sister looking like a little girl, makes sense to me simply because that would have been what he was most likely to perceive and easily relate to.
I do not believe that our soul will look exactly like our body does at the time of our death.

I'm running out of room to type...



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