Armored gunman, 4 people dead in Arizona shooting

Originally posted by ecoparity

Originally posted by ARandomAfflictionOfSense
Not at all supprised this was another rascist right wingnut gone off the edge.Nazi and minutemen in 1 probable religious too.God damn rightwingers again just can't live in peace.The right will no doubt blame the left though.

Really? You think your politics have any bearing on this issue?

You might want to study the statistics on abusive spouses who escalate violence, political affiliations of mass murderers, people with mental problems, etc. Believe it or not there is no predominance of left vs. right wing in the people who commit these types of acts.

I can give you example after example of mass murders carried out in extremely liberal countries with very strict gun controls or even outright gun bans. People have used knives, baseball bats, poison, fire and even toxic gases.

Apparently this moron did not have a felony conviction so despite being "someone of interest" to local law enforcement he was legally able to purchase and carry a firearm. What I don't understand is why his gun ownership rights were not curtailed after his lengthy history of domestic violence and stalking incidents. Then again, until someone can be convicted of physically attacking you the boundaries between stalking and going to jail are very, very wide. I had a problem with a female stalker for a couple of years and the police, prosecutor's office, etc refused to do anything. They said all they could do was make note of it in case I turned up dead so they'd know who to go talk to.

I hate to do this but I also have to blame his girlfriend. She knew he was an abuser, allowed him to abuse herself and her kids for years and not only did basically nothing about it, she chose to wait and take action at the worst possible time putting herself and everyone else in the house in danger (and ultimately got everyone killed).

I've seen too many women who are willing to be abused and allow their children to witness the abuse and be abused themselves. Any relationship with domestic violence in it has the potential to escalate into a murder / suicide scenario, especially when the abuser collects military weapons and is a member of a neo nazi group. Hell, she was half Latino and he attacked her for that which says all kinds of things about the mental condition of both of these people. I'm sure many will disagree but I have to assign a small percentage of blame for this incident to the woman who chose to keep this man around. As often as these things happen it seems no one learns from it, however.

It would be nice and easy to assign all the blame to his "right wing" leanings. In reality, choosing to join certain groups and take certain interests were a manifestation of his illness. Being a Republican didn't make him that way. Pushing the right wing / left wing thing into this is putting the cart before the horse.

And, just for the record - the Nazi party was founded on left wing, socialists ideas. The modern variants are corrupted in specific ways vs. the original but just thought I should point that out. A lot of bad ideas you think would be rooted in right wing politics actually come from the left.

Your story works if he killed only his girl freind. But what about the people in this photo?

Amber Mederos, 23, her boyfriend Jim "Jambob" Hiott, 24, an Army veteran who served in Afghanistan, and Amber’s 16-month-old daughter Lily.

Originally posted by MeesterB
It's so dumb how the conversation gets reset after 4 pages. It's like people read a few post on the first page then jump to an argument that's already been covered. I was expecting the discussion to continue, but it's just a bunch of rehashed rebuttals.

Who's to say the eye witness is credible or real? It's nonsensical to use the official story to rebut an argument that the official story is wrong.

I.e. Thermite clearly wasn't found at the WTC because NIST says commercial aircraft hit the WTC and there is no thermite in commercial aircraft

You seem to think random speculation is the same thing as informed debate.

Just saying 'oh, i dont believe the official story" is not the same as providing evidence to support your perspective.

So, on one hand you have several witnesses, and a police record, and on the other hand, you have people saying 'nu-uh'.

That's not a debate. That's just plugging your fingers in your ears and saying "I cant hear you".

Seriously, the total derp in this thread is mind boggling.

Provide SOME kind ANY kind of evidence to support your claims this was a set up.

Originally posted by JBA2848

Your story works if he killed only his girl freind. But what about the people in this photo?

Amber Mederos, 23, her boyfriend Jim "Jambob" Hiott, 24, an Army veteran who served in Afghanistan, and Amber’s 16-month-old daughter Lily.

My story? What are you talking about? Please clarify your statement, I can't make any sense of it.

reply to post by ecoparity


You can cast blame on a wife who allows abuse to be partly to blame for the abuse she suffers, Which is what that statement you made seems to point at. But you can't do that with the rest of the family who was killed. The were innocent by standers and you can only blame him.

She's still partially responsible for the deaths of everyone in the house. If she had not allowed him to abuse her, if she had prosecuted him the first time and left him the odds of the incident happening go down considerably.

This is an extremely common scenario when a domestic violence episode escalates into a murder / suicide. Not only is the spouse killed but often times other family members, friends and anyone else unlucky enough to be with them at the time are also attacked.

There have been multiple incidents where the attacker has gone to multiple locations in an effort to kill friends and relations of the spouse.

Like I said, not a popular point of view but one I still feels needs to be said, especially if there are people out there reading this who are in a relationship with ongoing domestic violence. These people should look at incidents like this and realize it's not just themselves they are putting at risk by allowing the abuse to continue. No one ever thinks something like this will happen to them but it does happen and most of the victims had one thing in common:

They all failed to see how dangerous the situation was to themselves and their family.

Hopefully someone will read this who needs a wake up call and will prevent it from happening to them, their children and their relatives / friends.

Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by ecoparity

 

You can cast blame on a wife who allows abuse to be partly to blame for the abuse she suffers, Which is what that statement you made seems to point at. But you can't do that with the rest of the family who was killed. The were innocent by standers and you can only blame him.

reply to post by ecoparity


So, let me get this straight... This thread has gone from blaming the mexcian drug cartels for killing this guy, to blaming the guys GIRLFRIEND for no leaving him sooner?

Is it even POSSIBLE for you to consider this guy had serious issues (as documented several times by his extensive police record) and totally snapped on people other family and friends have heard him refer to as 'half breeds'?

reply to post by ecoparity


Blame the victim, great idea.

She was just asking to be killed, her fault.