So why would hijackers crash planes into the twin towers anyway?

reply to post by Insolubrious

Can I break the ats rules and just state my opinion?
If you could recall news reports concerning the flight training they received, number one thing they wanted to learn was how to set auto pilot.
What if they were told fly them low and slow over NY so we can make our demands?
But they never took time to see that the coordinates they were given meant they would hit the towers.
Second plane tries to turn at last second; untrained pilot turns the wheel like in a car not knowing in would just tilt sideways?
They were not told it was a suicide just a highjacking for demands?
Just my thoughts , I don't want to defend them or argue...

reply to post by donlashway


An "opinion" does not "break ATS rules".

But, sometimes an opinion that is lacking the facts, and knowledge of some specific things, is then worthless. Like, this example:

Second plane tries to turn at last second; untrained pilot turns the wheel like in a car not knowing in would just tilt sideways?

The only way for an airplane to turn is by banking...or "tilt sideways" as quaintly described.

And, United 175 was not trying to "avoid" the Tower.....look at his direction of bank, and thus turn: It was towards the Tower. Clearly intentional...and, a last minute correction as he realized he might have only given it a glancing blow.....their intent was to damage the cores as mush as possible.

Also, the auto pilots......apparently some are under the misconception that they are "precise" enough to have accomplished these types of attacks....they are not, and also, the way the airplanes were flown shows that the Auto Flight systems, to include the Auto Throttles, were not engaged....the airplanes were hand-flown, without a doubt, in the final minutes.

The fact that the Twin Towers were the most prominent, and obvious targets in NYC has already been pointed out.

It is extremely likely that the collapse was not anticipated......in fact, one idea is that they "hoped" to actually use enough force, at the high speeds, to toppled the Towers, thus cause far, far more extensive devastation.

This idea has merit because of the high speed. Even at slower speeds, the extent of damage on the impacted floors would probably been just about as bad. The energy of momentum, based on the mass and velocity, is much higher, though.....as mass and velocity increase.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Insolubrious

 

Can you think of any logical reason behind the idea EXCEPT to bring the towers down?

They are homicidal maniacs. Logic and reason doesn't matter. Think about Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy. They had their motivations, but they were not rooted in logic and reason.

This is a very good point. We often hear from those who try to work it out using logic instead of evidence, "They wouldn't do it like that." What they mean is those of us who are more or less 'normal' wouldn't do that. The perpetrators and defenders of atrocities such as 9/11 and 7/7 are lost in a fantasy world. What they would or wouldn't do is anyones guess.

Originally posted by Insolubrious
Can anyone tell me what was the reason was for hijacking two planes and crashing them into the twin towers.

What excuse would there be for the existence of the TSA scum without transportation being used as a very major part of the attack? Without the TSA scum how do you funnel all freethinkers into the FEMA deathcamps?

Also the basic plot is originally an operation paperclip idea. Following the Reichstag fire brains were put to work on the next step. A structure with explosives concealed in the building materials to be detonated by aircraft impact was thought to be a good idea. The plan morphed and grew and was much delayed till it flourished into a disastrous failure requiring all the Daves and Hoopers of the world to sing its defence.

reply to post by Kester

What excuse would there be for the existence of the TSA scum without transportation being used as a very major part of the attack? Without the TSA scum how do you funnel all freethinkers into the FEMA deathcamps?

A bit harsh don't you think??

Have you bothered to lookup the items the TSA has removed off of passengers last year?? If you see the list and are a regular passenger you would be thanking the TSA.

FEMA deathcamps are a figment of your imagination.

Here is a link to some of them.

More than 1200 firearms. I guess you would feel safer if those had boarded?

A stungun disguised as a cell phone. Reason to have one of those????

Originally posted by Insolubrious
Can anyone tell me what was the reason was for hijacking two planes and crashing them into the twin towers. Why go through so much trouble? In terms of the official story and historically it doesn't make any sense, unless of course the intention was to take the buildings down.

Can you think of any logical reason behind the idea EXCEPT to bring the towers down?

Are you kidding me? Forgetting the conspiracy theories for a moment, it had an enormous effect on American (global even) psyche. The image of those towers and the aftermath will be etched in many people's minds forever. And the symbolism - striking at the heart of western capitalism was unparalleled. The fact that people are still talking about it today proves the point. Plenty of reasons - even discounting the false flag theory. I can't believe anyone has to ask

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by homervb

So, you're telling me that I pointed out that these exercises caused confusion, I then provided a very long article describing how confused they were...and you managed to completely interpret the article as "everything's all good"? Really? Wow dude. You are one fine scholar my friend.

I'm not "interpreting" anything, I'm going by your own very words. Namely, these words, which I am cutting and pasting verbatim:

"Do you think Al-Qaeda knew about the 9/11 military-FAA-NORAD exercises that took place? I find it way too ironic that these "hijackings" occurred in the midst of military and FAA terrorism-related exercises. Let's be honest, if what happened on 9/11 took place on a day without those drills, none of this would have been possible. Without the confusion between the FAA,NORAD & the military those planes would have been shot down."

I have shown...and in fact your own link has shown...that there really wasn't any confusion of any significance due to the training exercise as you're trying to alude to. The confusion was from the inability to find the hijacked aircraft among the 3000 other blips on the screen compounded by not knowing how many planes were being hijacked and where they were heading, which would have still occurred regardless of whether or not there were these exercises. PLUS, at least one building would still have been whacked even if they did find them because the procedures at first were to call for shadowing hijacked planes, not shoot them down. I'm quoting your own link when I say this whole bit about the exercises had no real impact one way or the other, and therefore is nothing but a red herring meant to introduce innuendo of impropriety.

I'm not saying things couldn't have gone more smoothly or that people in authority aren't tryign to cover up their slipping on banana peels and tripping over their own shadows, but that doesn't give anyone the right to poison the well with this unnecessary abject paranoia, either.

Poison the well? Really? I'm poisoning the well by pointing out this huge coincidence which 100% worked in favor of the hijackers? I'm not here saying everyone in the government was in on it, but anyone involved in protecting our country had a set agenda that strayed them from their normal duties. (And yes, these war games would happen regardless but I don't find it illogical to think that the hijackers knew about these exercises) But no, I'm so dead wrong for finding something fishy with Bush being too busy reading a book in order not to scare children, Rumsfeld was too busy in a meeting Rumsfeld: "I had said at an 8:00 o'clock breakfast that sometime in the next two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve months there would be an event that would occur in the world that would be sufficiently shocking that it would remind people again how important it is to have a strong healthy defense department that contributes to"] Every single aviation branch including the military was occupied with these war games which called for the movement of fighter jets out of the Northeast and more towards Alaska. I'm so illogical in thinking that the entire apparatus of defense in our country being distracted in the very moments of America's worst terrorist attack was way too coincidental.

Bro, just open your mind for once, seriously. I know it's not listed in the 9/11 Commission Report, I understand you defend that til you die, but seriously you need to just look at it with a little less bias. I mean, I know you're going to completely deny everything either way, because you find it damn near impossible that the hjiackers knew about these war games, but maybe take a step back at some point and think "hmmm..that is kind of ironic."

I know every time I write something you interpret it as "THE GOVERNMENT DID IT, EVERYONE IN THE GOVERNMENT WOULD MURDER 3,000 PEOPLE" but that's not what I'm aiming for. I'm just simply saying maybe the hijackers managed to find out about these exercises before hand and planned around them. There's been dispute about MOSSAD running the Germany terror cell that recruited some of the hijackers so maybe it could have been them, I don't know.

reply to post by homervb

I'm so illogical in thinking that the entire apparatus of defense in our country being distracted in the very moments of America's worst terrorist attack was way too coincidental.

Poo happens.
We had an incedent this week in my city (major one).
There were significant thunder storms and flooding. Many homes lost power. A car wrecked knocking over a power pole. The wires came down on the car. It took over 1.5 hours to get a power company truck to arrive and start to remove the wires. We are talking about someones life here and they couldn't pull a truck off another job???

Poo happens. There are drills going on everday with one agency or another. You can't add any significance to that alone. I would bet if the hijackers knew there would be war games in the air, they would have chosen another day.

Does anyone know how far ahead they bought their tickets??

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by homervb

 

I'm so illogical in thinking that the entire apparatus of defense in our country being distracted in the very moments of America's worst terrorist attack was way too coincidental.

Poo happens.
We had an incedent this week in my city (major one).
There were significant thunder storms and flooding. Many homes lost power. A car wrecked knocking over a power pole. The wires came down on the car. It took over 1.5 hours to get a power company truck to arrive and start to remove the wires. We are talking about someones life here and they couldn't pull a truck off another job???

Poo happens. There are drills going on everday with one agency or another. You can't add any significance to that alone. I would bet if the hijackers knew there would be war games in the air, they would have chosen another day.

Does anyone know how far ahead they bought their tickets??

Why would they have chosen another day? That's like telling someone they're better off robbing a store with cameras instead of picking a place with no surveillance. IMO, fighter jets were out of the north east area which guaranteed them more of a success rate than a fail rate. And if they knew they could just easily turn off their transponders then it doesn't matter what flights they took and when they booked them as long as the flights took off in the general area of their targets.

I agree drills do happen every day, it's just ironic that any agency involved in the handling of aviation problems were all occupied/distracted as this 4 plane terrorist attack took place. But then again, it's not in the Commission Report. I know there's no opening your mind

reply to post by Insolubrious


hijackers aided the zealots who commandeered the passenger jets

the hijackers were motivated to attack the USA, mostly because of the USA (little Satan) messing with ME countries and its support of Israel, the war-machine of Washington, etc


the zealot commandeers were motivated to attack the symbolic WTC towers & Pentagon because those are iconic symbols of American power & iron fisted Trade and were susceptable to just an act of sabotage... (either the WH or Capitol was an intended 3rd target that failed to be damaged)
--- the idea was to give the Giant USA bully a bloody nose --- and usher in the chaos conditions for the return of the Mahdi


(now Iran has taken up the cause of ushering in world conditions for the 12th Imam to return)

reply to post by homervb

Why would they have chosen another day?

There is just a feel of readyness.
Knowingly choosing the same day as air drills are going on is like robbing a bank with a police parade coming down the street. You can hope for confusion is the air but it's better to have the same confusion with the F16s on the ground.

Originally posted by DaTroof


Who are we? What power do we have? Did we decide to go to Iraq? No, the military did. Seriously, do you think the US population's indifference would have prevented a war if a military base were attacked?

What's the point of a false flag then?

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by homervb

 

Why would they have chosen another day?

There is just a feel of readyness.
Knowingly choosing the same day as air drills are going on is like robbing a bank with a police parade coming down the street. You can hope for confusion is the air but it's better to have the same confusion with the F16s on the ground.

No it's not.It's not like that at all. The fighter jets were physically out of the Northeast and those who control them had their full attention towards these drills. If you're seriously going to tell me it's better to commit a crime with everyone watching vs. doing it when no one is looking, then all I can do is just render this void and stop responding to you. [face palm]

Originally posted by homervb
Poison the well? Really? I'm poisoning the well by pointing out this huge coincidence which 100% worked in favor of the hijackers? I'm not here saying everyone in the government was in on it, but anyone involved in protecting our country had a set agenda that strayed them from their normal duties. (And yes, these war games would happen regardless but I don't find it illogical to think that the hijackers knew about these exercises)

It's one thing to speculate on what the hijackers may or may not have known that could have given them an advantage. It's another thing to take unrelated events and statements and embellish them to manufacture your own "coincidences". Case in point- your statement of...

"Rumsfeld: "I had said at an 8:00 o'clock breakfast that sometime in the next two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve months there would be an event that would occur in the world that would be sufficiently shocking that it would remind people again how important it is to have a strong healthy defense department that contributes to"

Before 9/11, Al Qaida was repeatedly causing mischief throughout the world from the USS Cole bombing to the embassy bombings in Africa to even the first WTC bombing in 1993, so predicting that Al Qaida was going to launch another attack in a year's time was a given. In fact I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that in a year's time, there will be more trouble in the mideast between Israel and its neighbors, North Korea will threaten to start a war again, and at least one politician will be exposed as a liar. Is it really that "suspicious a coincidence" that I'd know this or is it simply a case that I'm predicting that someone who shows repetitive behavior wil keep doing it?

You do know that Al Qaida bombed two of our embassies in Africa before the 9/11 attack, right?

I know every time I write something you interpret it as "THE GOVERNMENT DID IT, EVERYONE IN THE GOVERNMENT WOULD MURDER 3,000 PEOPLE" but that's not what I'm aiming for. I'm just simply saying maybe the hijackers managed to find out about these exercises before hand and planned around them. There's been dispute about MOSSAD running the Germany terror cell that recruited some of the hijackers so maybe it could have been them, I don't know.

All right, if you want to keep beating this dead horse, fine. Let's just pretend for the sake of argument that on 9/11 there were no wargames. How would this have led to any different outcome on 9/11? The hijackers still would have turned off the transponders, wouldn't they? Air traffic controlelrs still would have to pick them out from among the 3000 blips on the screen, wouldn't they? They would still be running around in circles tryign to find out how many planes were hijacked and where they were heading, wouldn't they? Interceptors would still be ordered to stay back and the president would still need to authorize any shoot down order, don't they?

So where is the massive impact these wargames are supposed to have had on the events of 9/11, exactly?

Originally posted by St Udio
the zealot commandeers were motivated to attack the symbolic WTC towers & Pentagon because those are iconic symbols of American power & iron fisted Trade and were susceptable to just an act of sabotage... (either the WH or Capitol was an intended 3rd target that failed to be damaged)
--- the idea was to give the Giant USA bully a bloody nose --- and usher in the chaos conditions for the return of the Mahdi

"Iron fisted trade?!? Are you for real? the World Trade Center was just the name. In reality it was an office building that rented out space to whoever wanted to be there. Cartoon Network was on the top floor of the north tower.

Are you saying Spongebob Squarepants is a part of the sinister secret plot to take over the world?

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by Kester

 

What excuse would there be for the existence of the TSA scum without transportation being used as a very major part of the attack?

A bit harsh don't you think??

No, I don't think so. Anyone who justifies their 'job' by quoting the fraudulently created terror threat is a fool or a criminal, perhaps both.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Building 7. Nuff said.

simple enough, destroy major areas... The Twin Towers were major buildings to the US, like the Pentagon, White House, maybe a few Dams, the Statue of Liberty, well you get my point...destroying certain places would ya kill a lot of people but would also ruin the country because of the networks that were destroyed, would slow down and distract a country and so on, just crashing a plane wouldn't do to much but hitting certain places would cause a huge problem... Like what happened because of 911

Originally posted by JAY1980
Oooh snap! Your both here... Is that MSM/Official report reality you speak of? Sorry don't buy it... I'm fully aware the middle east isn't just goat herders. But our government wants us to believe that these people from one of the most war torn regions in the world were able to do it with no outside help. Not to mention it was carried out with military effectivness. But I know i'm the one in LaLa land because I question the "official story".

So let me get this straight...two hijacked planes were used to destroy a bunch of buildings before 9:00 when most people haven't shown up for work yet and which had completely zero effect on the nation's military or political infrastructure. A third plane flying over Washinbton DC completely avoided the US Capitol building and instead decided to target a concrete building so huge that most people survived simply because they were too far away from the impact area. A forth plane crashed in a field in the middle of nowhere and did nothing whatsoever. *This* is "Military effectiveness" to you?

Little wonder why people subscribe to these conspiracy stories- those damned fool conspiracy web sites are filling their heads with complete nonsense. FYI Most of these hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, and Saudi Arabia isn't even remotely war torn. You didn't even get THAT part right.