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The plight of the deer in the Northern United States populated areas.

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posted on May, 1 2012 @ 09:22 PM
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I live in a very large town suburb of Boston. (Braintree to be exact.). I have a home that borders an old dried up pond. In actuality it was a pond when I purchased this property, but back in the 70’s, when it was “permissible” to drain ponds in the interests of rich developers that built apartment complexes having problems with water tables, it certainly got drained.

Over the last 40+ years, it has turned into a swampy forest; my property on one end, and across the “pond”, a now run-down apartment complex.

I have many deer in in this now muddy forest, clinging to the last vestiges of life, as they have completely lost their environment. If you look at a satellite map of this area, you can see the chains of woodland that provides the borders between housing complexes, other dried up ponds, and meadow that are the only remaining refuge for these animals, and it goes on like a chain through the town, into the next town, and ultimately joins up with a very large forested area where it is permissible to hunt these deer…. Guess why these deer are in my area.

Not only are there deer here, but there are their predators as well. There are many coyote in the area, and they are new here as well as the deer. The coyote have the added advantage in that they can coral these deer into areas such as the one behind my house, and have a small feast when they are successful.

Sometimes the howls and commotion behind my house are so fierce, that I have to go out there and fire a shotgun to make it stop. I go out there on the edge of the pond with my dog and we both howl to force them to take off for a while.

I have neighbors, so I have to explain this to them, but they understand because the sound these coyotes make is nerve racking to everyone. But, it is much more than nerve racking to the poor deer who are being systematically slaughtered by these coyotes on a continual basis.

My town does NOTHING about this. They have known for so many years about the migration of the deer in these areas, most of them town owned. There is so much they could do to provide at least a habitat area that would free these poor animals from this slaughter , but they are more interested in bake sales and stupid town fluff meetings, than deal with these kinds of problems. If they wanted to, they could chain off these areas , since no one else goes in there, and at least make it possible for these creatures to live their lives with dignity. The coyotes could be stopped very easily by sectioning the congruent areas off, and systematically policing it once in a while for predators.

I will not vote for our mayor or any of the people that provide this government, because they are oblivious to the original town charters that cared for, and nurtured the wildlife of the area
.
I want from ATS, some examples of how to fight for these animals, and experience in dealing with town governments that have neglected the responsibility for preserving what is left of our heritage. Hunters need not apply, we are talking about habitat here and the right for a species to survive.
Any Takers?

edit on 1-5-2012 by charlyv because: spelling , where caught

edit on 1-5-2012 by charlyv because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 1 2012 @ 09:32 PM
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Well,I have actually created a small habitat for wildlife in my backyard and welcome it.
I live in the suburbs,a sort of heavily wooded area.
Even though my lot is 1/4 acre ,I have a small pond and several fruit producing trees and bushes.
I love seeing the deer visit my backyard and other creatures.
Today my son saw a bobcat back there.
I would say that if it's your property,why not turn it into a small wildlife refuge?

We humans took they're habitat away,why not give some of it back?



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 09:44 PM
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You're probably going to get the most support from hunters, so it's best not to alienate them. After all, they cherish the deer on a level that you don't. A thriving, healthy population is ideal for legal hunters since they are only allowed to collect a set number of deer per season. Think about it, who's more invested in a resource than those who use it?



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by MeesterB
You're probably going to get the most support from hunters, so it's best not to alienate them. After all, they cherish the deer on a level that you don't. A thriving, healthy population is ideal for legal hunters since they are only allowed to collect a set number of deer per season. Think about it, who's more invested in a resource than those who use it?


Ok, that is cool, what ever works in the open forests has been part of the legacy of this country as well and is fine by me, but hunting in my back yard is not an option. I am concerned with the loss of free roaming habitat, as we encroach on their land without providing relief to those stranded in this development. I open my land to them as well, but they will only get as close to a house as they feel safe, and I cannot blame them for not feeling safe.

edit on 1-5-2012 by charlyv because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by charlyv
 


You mean predators are killing things to survive and this shocks you?



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by charlyv
 


You mean predators are killing things to survive and this shocks you?


Hmm..... you forgot the main theme and highly detailed, well written part regarding how humans have taken over all the land. Are you trolling or just in a bad mood tonight LDragonFire?
edit on 5/1/2012 by dreams n chains because: add name for credit due



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by charlyv
 


You mean predators are killing things to survive and this shocks you?


It bothers me a lot more than shocks me. The predators have the extreme upper hand here, since they are able to coral the deer into an area they cannot escape from. I am familiar with the food chain, but an unfair advantage is pretty much a controled slaughter. I have no malice for the predator, but lets face it, if you had coyotes in your back yard area, and own cats and dogs, then you would have a concern as well.



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:17 PM
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By chaining off the areas - do you mean putting up fencing to keep the deer in and coyotes out? If so, that's not viable in the long term. Without some form of predation (either coyote or human) the deer population would soon outgrow the food stores in those small areas and you'd have overcrowding, starvation and disease for the deer.

One more from your post...



Posted by: charlyv
...
and it goes on like a chain through the town, into the next town, and ultimately joins up with a very large forested area where it is permissible to hunt these deer…. Guess why these deer are in my area.


Its not because they are hunted in that big forest a few towns away. Mass. deer season starts with Archery in Oct and the muzzleloader season ends the last of Dec. Mass Hunting Seasons

So that does not explain why the deer are in your back yard the 1st of May. I'm hunter. Most likely they are there because something is blocking their route to those woods. It could be a road, a big fence, etc.

What kind of health is the herd in. Are the well fed or are they scraggly and you can see ribs?

Its a tough thing. There are similar situations in areas across the US as homes creep into what was once woodland.

Mrs. Frogs is saying its bedtime.
More tomorrow. In the meantime, here is some research done on the problem by the Mich. State Univ.

Deer Conflicts: Urban/Suburban Deer Management



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:23 PM
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i have a small heard that lives in the back of my proeprty we have a kind of understanding i dont let any one hunt on my land(but i enjoy hunting) so the deer get a safe nursery and area to chill to avoid hunters and they skedaddle when i wanna put my dogs out for exercise,so far so good even got those newfangled things all the highway patrol have on their crusers that gives off some ultra sonic frequency to scare them away from my car. i know its not much but its what i do to help in my own small way good luck with your rescue opperation and great thread s & f



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


not claiming to be able to read the ops mind but i think he ment the loss of habitat has let to the preadators and preay being forced into close confines and thus kinda making it a smorgosport for the coyotes as opposed to the usualy sporting nature that is well nature?



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by Frogs
By chaining off the areas - do you mean putting up fencing to keep the deer in and coyotes out? If so, that's not viable in the long term. Without some form of predation (either coyote or human) the deer population would soon outgrow the food stores in those small areas and you'd have overcrowding, starvation and disease for the deer.


I realize that, but this is such a small area, the predation has become rather fearsome, and they are escaping from a larger area that much easily contains them. I do not know if chains or fences would ever work, just grasping ant possible solutions.



One more from your post...



Posted by: charlyv
...
and it goes on like a chain through the town, into the next town, and ultimately joins up with a very large forested area where it is permissible to hunt these deer…. Guess why these deer are in my area.


Its not because they are hunted in that big forest a few towns away. Mass. deer season starts with Archery in Oct and the muzzleloader season ends the last of Dec. Mass Hunting Seasons

So that does not explain why the deer are in your back yard the 1st of May. I'm hunter. Most likely they are there because something is blocking their route to those woods. It could be a road, a big fence, etc.

What kind of health is the herd in. Are the well fed or are they scraggly and you can see ribs?

Its a tough thing. There are similar situations in areas across the US as homes creep into what was once woodland.

Mrs. Frogs is saying its bedtime.
More tomorrow. In the meantime, here is some research done on the problem by the Mich. State Univ.

Deer Conflicts: Urban/Suburban Deer Management



There are a few roads that lead to the other areas they roam in , and they are somewhat busy during the day, so the deer cross them, and the railroad tracks by night. They seem to use the railroad tracks as a major route into the other forested areas. I think they are just trying to outrun the predators.

Thanks for the links , I will read them.



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by KilrathiLG
reply to post by LDragonFire
 


not claiming to be able to read the ops mind but i think he ment the loss of habitat has let to the preadators and preay being forced into close confines and thus kinda making it a smorgosport for the coyotes as opposed to the usualy sporting nature that is well nature?


Yes, this is the scenario. I feel that the deer are up against the last wall, and the monsters come towards them from the dark. Scary. My dog knows about it right before it happens, and then we hear the shreeks.... We go out there and he barks and I yell.... it stops for a while, but who knows what happens when we are asleep.



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by dreams n chains

Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by charlyv
 


You mean predators are killing things to survive and this shocks you?


Hmm..... you forgot the main theme and highly detailed, well written part regarding how humans have taken over all the land. Are you trolling or just in a bad mood tonight LDragonFire?
edit on 5/1/2012 by dreams n chains because: add name for credit due


How is there situation any different than what happens everyday in the forest? There environment is good enough to support a healthy deer population and apparent coyote population, I'm not seeing the issue other than a human wishing to conform this environment to suit there view?

The coyotes are group hunters and penning deer into manageable groups is what they do.

Nature can be ugly but it seems both species are surviving leave them alone?
edit on 1-5-2012 by LDragonFire because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by charlyv
 


Hunters need not apply - here applying - the coyote - take them out any way you can!!!! day, night, when ever!!.. As a women who is 5' 1" 102 lbs and has been for the past 25 years of my adult life and lives in the back woods and has almost been attached many time!!! and hear the many of dying calls from the fawns in my outer fields under the howls of the Coyote -- Fences will not protect anything - are you really kidding me? Old word of wisdom - how do you kill a Coyote = any way you can!!



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by charlyv

Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by charlyv
 


You mean predators are killing things to survive and this shocks you?


It bothers me a lot more than shocks me. The predators have the extreme upper hand here, since they are able to coral the deer into an area they cannot escape from. I am familiar with the food chain, but an unfair advantage is pretty much a controled slaughter. I have no malice for the predator, but lets face it, if you had coyotes in your back yard area, and own cats and dogs, then you would have a concern as well.


I'm familiar with over crowding of deer near metro areas, I'm also familiar with bow hunts to limit the herds, so hearing about natural predators limiting the herds of deer sounds like a really good thing to me.



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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Hunters are a great idea if your area is somewhat rural. I'm not really familiar with your surroundings but if it's a major city there isn't much they can/would do.

Deer are amazing animals. Believe me they will find a way to survive even in the middle of a city. As long as there is something to eat they will find it. Like the movie "I am Legend". If we were gone they would be living in time square. Like someone mentioned before make them a little area in your back yard where they can come. They are great to watch but don't get to close. Especially during rut. A deer can rip you apart.

Try here if you want to help.

Link



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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Despite opening many new areas to deer hunters, the coyote population surge, and human encroachment,.. the whitetail deer population still increases 30% a year in Massachusetts.

In the 1800's Massachusetts was almost COMPLETELY clear cut. The rivers were extremely polluted. Large mammals fled or were completely wiped out. As recently as the 1950's the wild Turkey population was zero. Yet, the deer and coyotes survived in the last bastions of forest that were still left. They are particularly adaptive species.

Fast forward to today. Bear, Owls, Hawks, Bald Eagle, Turkey, Fisher Cat, Beaver, are all back in a big way. The deer and coyotes are thriving! No wonder. The rivers are cleaner than they've been in over 100 years. Literally millions of acres of their natural habitat has been restored and a large chunk of that is protected. They are not being forced into developed areas, they are attracted to these areas because of the easy food sources.

Conditions are so ideal for the whitetail that their population is exploding. Without a predator such as the coyote the deer would be suffering terribly. Leave them be and appreciate the situation. Things have not looked so good for them in a very long time.



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire

Originally posted by dreams n chains

Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by charlyv
 


You mean predators are killing things to survive and this shocks you?


Hmm..... you forgot the main theme and highly detailed, well written part regarding how humans have taken over all the land. Are you trolling or just in a bad mood tonight LDragonFire?
edit on 5/1/2012 by dreams n chains because: add name for credit due


How is there situation any different than what happens everyday in the forest? There environment is good enough to support a health deer population and apparent coyote population, I'm not seeing the issue other than a human wishing to conform this environment to suit there view?

The coyotes are group hunters and penning deer into manageable groups is what they do.

Nature can be ugly but it seems both species are surviving leave them alone?


This is a good point, and I would have to say that yes, I do not enjoy having a front row seat to the dark side of nature and it's wonders. How many would? The important thing here was the topography that prohibits the deer of an escape path. Once they get corralled in the area I am talking about, there seems to be no where out. They could run up into my yard, and make it out to the street, but they do not. Could this be scarier than facing those coyote's? We would probably think not, but they have never tried it.



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:48 PM
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Is there a bounty on the coy-dogs?

Back home, we'd get 5 dollars/pelt.



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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It's how nature rolls,know what I mean?
Checks and balances.


The coyotes are helping with the control of the deer.


Deer are very charismatic animals, and many people in New York enjoy seeing, watching, photographing, or hunting deer. Although a highly valued species, the white-tailed deer has reached record population levels in many states and will continue to grow. Densitites may exceed 40 deer per square mile in some rural areas, and over 100 deer/square mile have been documented near many eastern metropolitan areas. Overall, public attitudes toward deer are becoming more negative as deer populations increase (Swihart and DeNicola, 1997). Public concerns include crop damage, damage to landscape plants, deer/car collisions, transmission of Lyme Disease, and effects of high deer populations on habitat quality for both deer and other wildlife species.


wildlifecontrol.info...

It's nature,eat or be eaten.

But,if the coyotes are becoming a problem,there is a solution to that.

Contact your DNR and see what they have to say.
edit on 1-5-2012 by kdog1982 because: wrong state







 
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