I am an Orthodox Christian and Historian; Almost Everything Most Know About The Church is False

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by reficul

 

I think we've already established that half of the Holy Bible is ultimately unoriginal.

It is a tool of cryptic, warped half-truths used to impart metaphysical concepts that are still beyond our grasp, as far as I can tell. How effective that's supposed to be is anyone's guess...

Yes, us of the educated members have faithfully chronicled the fallacy of the Bible and Christianity, but the uneducated still follow it and think it to be literal truth given by their God himself. To be this simply shows the age, and evolution of Spirits here on Terra Firma, and the effects of brainwashing and mind controlling techniques applied by TBPB to keep the Masses dumbed down and unaware of real history. If asked, I would answer they are not yet ready to know these things.

At least there are some that know the truth.

reply to post by TruthSeekerMike


I would suggest to everyone who may have an interest in this subject to read the works of Tony Bushby, his research, revelations and documentation is simply mindblowing, and exposes religion and many of those revered for what they really were. He also exposes many facts on "Jesus the Christ" many are not aware of.

reply to post by TruthSeekerMike

TextPlease ask questions because I think I can help clear up a lot of misunderstandings about God, Christianity, the Church, C

Am quite old now and going on ninety. As a young man in Europe in the service of this country I have always been interested in the truth of any matter. Have found that religion is a very hard topic to discuss because of so many different beliefs. Don't really know which bible to read cause there are so many bibles and seems like nobody is on the same page anymore. Everybody is right and yet common sense tells me that most all are wrong. But who is wrong and who is right?

Got a few questions for folks out there in ATS land. If my bible says that everyone must be born again of the Spirit and Water, what does that mean? Now if you have to be born again to be in the kingdom of God, then does that mean that all of the people who are born in the flesh are not God's people till they reach understanding and are reborn of this Spirit and Water? I often wondered if Adolph Hitler was loved by God at any time? Can a person have salvation and then lose it?

If a little baby is killed as a little baby and has no chance to proclaim its love for Christ Jesus, is that child simply erased or will it ever be given the same choice as I have had? Would it be fair to give one human a better chance at salvation than any other human? What happens to a guy who has never heard of Jesus or God?

Reason I ask all of this is that I feel that this is really what is most important to a person. Religion don't really make sense without getting a bite from the apple. Does it? If a guy doesn't believe in afterlife then he or she hasn't really got any thing to live for. It's almost like a game of chance isn't it?

When I was drafted, I was a dumber youngster from a small town USA. Never was outside my town limits and even though I went to church every Sunday I had no idea who God was much less Jesus. Oh I heard the preacher talk about hell and stuff like that but never really understood death till I found myself looking it right in the eye. By then it was a day late and a dollar short. Then I wondered what happened to all of those guys who lay dead by the hundreds? What about the other guys who were the enemy? Didn't they have the same thoughts? Where were all of these guys? Simply wasted like a garbage dump?

So you see just how religion is a troublesome topic for a lot of guys out there. I think they need answers and not more bibles or denominations. They need a reason to do right. Otherwise it just don't make sense. When you take the reward away then there is no sense to do right. Thanks ATS for bending your ear.

Excellent post OP!

I would disagree with some of your history concerning the start of the Christian church. You make no mention of the Council of Jerusalem and Jesus' brother, James.

Never-the-less, we arrive at the same place. The original "church" was stolen and turned into something not intended.

reply to post by TruthSeekerMike


As long as you believe that any one group holds the keys to the mysteries of Christ you have placed that group above Christ himself. The Holy Spirit is the free gift to all and the path to receive the Holy Spirit is through faith alone. No group, no man, no church holds the exclusive right to the path to the Holy Spirit. Christ alone is the teacher. Christ alone is the high priest. It is only by the spirit of Christ that one can know the truth. This truth is found in you and the key lies in faith. Abraham found the key without ever knowing of the church you talk about. What did he do? Listen to the Holy Spirit and do what it said. Without ever knowing the bible one can learn to listen to Christ. But you think only those that received the spirit through faith before the bible had this privilege. This is false, although by searching the scripture you find that very few found the way to the spirit, and they were called profits. The New Covenant that came through Christ is assurance that each of us can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit so that we may all become sons of God and heirs to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Believe that Christ lives in you and speaks to you. Learn to listen to the Holy Spirit so you can be made like Christ. There is no other way to become like Christ, for if anyone could have been made Holy by observing the law there would be no need for a new covenant. As long as you believe that one group holds the truth and all others are doomed, you have made this truth a law that must be followed, thus establishing a new set of rules that must be followed to get to heaven and ignoring the spirit of Christ in you.

The problem with this is it leads to self righteousness and division. The path to Christ is open to all who believe in the Holy Spirit who speaks to them, and does what the spirit says. For most people they cannot learn to listen to the Holy Spirit speaking to them unless someone shares this truth with them. Once they know that the Holy Spirit speaks to them and wants to teach them than they simply need to add faith and do what the Spirit says. In this way they let Christ be the High priest and the Teacher of the new covenant and they stop looking to a group of people to teach them.

Once you accept this message than you can understand why there are no divisions in the church of Christ. The one true church lies within every man and the Holy Spirit is the key. Listen to the Spirit and the doors to the church will be opened. Ask and it will be given, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened. Ask God for the guidance of the Holy Spirit, seek the truth from the Spirit, by doing what it says you are knocking and Christ will open the doors of the Kingdome of heaven, the inner sanctuary in you.

We are all God's temple. The Holy Spirit dwells within each of us. Listen to the Spirit and receive the one true baptism. The Spirit will become like a spring of living water, welling up in you so that you may never be thirsty again.

The Kingdom of heaven is like yeast placed in a large amount of flour until it worked all through the dough. The yeast of the Kingdom of heaven is in you, the Holy Spirit is waiting for you to do what the spirit says and then the Kingdom will be at work in you until it has worked all through you and you have been made like Christ.

I go to the original Church (known now as Eastern Orthodoxy) and I can assure you, your thoughts are very close to what Christ taught.

reply to post by TruthSeekerMike


The eastern orthodox church is not the original church. The original church was 12 Jewish disciples.
Christianity is a buiulding that's foundations are Judaism. 'Christ' (or actually, Messiah,) is a Jewish concept.
Jesus/Yeshua is the promised Messiah and Redeemer of Israel as promised by the prophets and received by Jewish believers. The plan of redemption spread out to all peoples, not just the 'lost sheep of Israel'. In Messiah, GOD created one new man, neither Jew nor Gentile, in Christ.
After the disciples of the original disciples died, Hellenistic mindsets and heresies began to permeate the pure faith.
Eastern orthodox is one of those hellenistic mindsets that have deviated from the pure truth of the gospel of Jesus.

reply to post by freedom12


Hold on.

Give us something to base this James on...they debunked the supposed crypt they found him in, saying the letters were carved after the actual ceremony (I mean a long while after) so they say that James isn't really the brother of Jesus.

Do you have evidence to contradict this? What did they miss?

Originally posted by ChuckNasty
To the OP - I understand that Jesus was a Jew and went by the Law of Moses. Jesus also wanted all to know that by understanding Him and His ways was the path to the Kingdom of God.

This Church you speak of...well, is all about money and power. Money and power isn't a sin, but the lust for it can be seen as a sin. Jesus never said we all have to pay monies to the church - he just wanted us to help the less fortunate (not the lazy welfare/baby factory bums). Jesus also wanted us to give into the spirit...not give into what the church calls a spirit so they get more money and power. We must keep the Sabbath holy, work hard, and help those in REAL need (elderly, deformed, sick, etc).

WWJD - he would bitch slap all of us for being so gullible.

Tithing was introduced to the ancient hebrews by Moses. There was no hebrew king during those times, nor did our Creator anointed anyone till very much later. Our Creator has no need for those tithes. It was meant to help those hebrews whom may have fallen behind, such as the sick, the widows and for public works - social expenditure and social responsibility by the fortunate to those whom are behind.

It was a time of trust, with Moses and his brother priests line accountable for those funds and spending.

Since those days, tithing had lasted till today. The principal aim and reason remains the same, BUT unfortunately, through historical records of the centuries after the Messiah, we had seen how those funds had been spent.

Magnificent cathedrals, rich vestments upon the clerics, vast land holdings, etc - unbelievable great and staggering wealth hoarded up, and yet, the followers of the Messiah remained uneducated serfs, with few pennies thrown to them onlyl when in the diremost needs, and often not as the wealth was hoarded up.

What were the clergy thinking? To rival our Creator in wealth, and construction magnificence? Mercedez, BMWs to impress the poor? Our Messiah wore only homespun simple clothing. It may look old or had mended tears in it, but it was kept tidy and clean always. That was all that was needed. He, or his disciples, or even Mary never wore fine clothings. It was the message that mattered, not the raiments and foolish trappings of wealth.

Yet today, Givenchy, Dior, Brook Brothers suits, merce, audis and the like are worn by the clergy, with huge bank accounts while many of the followers starved and worry over the comming school bills to pay.

They may claim those accounts were meant as savings to earn interest for rainy days, and it was use to help the poor. Question is - how MUCH of it was truly used for the poor and the rest used as 'administrative costs'? More so when the clergy, the buildings and the title ownerships of properties are vast, as well as spending for political intrigues and pandering, all for self glory misusing the name of our Creator.

Typically, we had seen how many charity org spent the donations - 70% goes to admin cost and only 30% truly goes to the needy.

It is best religious organisations be transparant, open up their books to public independent accounting and earn back the faithful's trust. It's not a matter of suspicion, but only a matter of light. If there is nothing to hide, then one should not be afraid to come into the open, more so with hard and slave earned donations made and sacrificed by faithfuls to help the needy in society, as tithe was originally meant.

reply to post by Seede


Much wisdom in what you say. I like the way you think and write. I am not as old as you, only in my 50s, but I hope to gain this kind of wisdom in my lifetime.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Well said. Sorry for the minimalist post, just wanted to post in agreement.

reply to post by sacgamer25


If the Church hadn't provided the Bible you wouldn't have been able to hold such beliefs. Christ is the head of the Church, it is His body. How could the organization be above him? You fail to understand the concept of original truth being preserved unaltered. Orthodoxy is not a denomination, it is The Christian Church. Anything or anyone else that has ever called itself Christian has no one to thank for receiving the Gospel but the Orthodox Church. It is just the bottom line historical truth. If you believe Christ walked this Earth then you must believe he started a Church as he promised and you must trust it or you can't trust the Bible they compiled.

Just so everyone knows, Orthodoxy has no central leadership or organization.

reply to post by TruthSeekerMike


Where do you stand on the issue or identity/covenant promises of GOD to the Jewish peple?
Are they reneged? Are they 'superceded' by the orthodox church?
Do the blessing and curses upon Abraham's seed still hold today over the Jews? (Regardless of your personal opinions on non biblical 'replacement theology')?

Originally posted by Lucius Driftwood
reply to post by TruthSeekerMike

 

Where do you stand on the issue or identity/covenant promises of GOD to the Jewish peple?
Are they reneged? Are they 'superceded' by the orthodox church?
Do the blessing and curses upon Abraham's seed still hold today over the Jews? (Regardless of your personal opinions on non biblical 'replacement theology')?

I stand where Christians have always stood. We are the seed of Abraham and Israel. Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism.

Originally posted by Seede
reply to post by TruthSeekerMike

 

TextPlease ask questions because I think I can help clear up a lot of misunderstandings about God, Christianity, the Church, C

Am quite old now and going on ninety. As a young man in Europe in the service of this country I have always been interested in the truth of any matter. Have found that religion is a very hard topic to discuss because of so many different beliefs. Don't really know which bible to read cause there are so many bibles and seems like nobody is on the same page anymore. Everybody is right and yet common sense tells me that most all are wrong. But who is wrong and who is right?

Got a few questions for folks out there in ATS land. If my bible says that everyone must be born again of the Spirit and Water, what does that mean? Now if you have to be born again to be in the kingdom of God, then does that mean that all of the people who are born in the flesh are not God's people till they reach understanding and are reborn of this Spirit and Water? I often wondered if Adolph Hitler was loved by God at any time? Can a person have salvation and then lose it?

If a little baby is killed as a little baby and has no chance to proclaim its love for Christ Jesus, is that child simply erased or will it ever be given the same choice as I have had? Would it be fair to give one human a better chance at salvation than any other human? What happens to a guy who has never heard of Jesus or God?

Reason I ask all of this is that I feel that this is really what is most important to a person. Religion don't really make sense without getting a bite from the apple. Does it? If a guy doesn't believe in afterlife then he or she hasn't really got any thing to live for. It's almost like a game of chance isn't it?

When I was drafted, I was a dumber youngster from a small town USA. Never was outside my town limits and even though I went to church every Sunday I had no idea who God was much less Jesus. Oh I heard the preacher talk about hell and stuff like that but never really understood death till I found myself looking it right in the eye. By then it was a day late and a dollar short. Then I wondered what happened to all of those guys who lay dead by the hundreds? What about the other guys who were the enemy? Didn't they have the same thoughts? Where were all of these guys? Simply wasted like a garbage dump?

So you see just how religion is a troublesome topic for a lot of guys out there. I think they need answers and not more bibles or denominations. They need a reason to do right. Otherwise it just don't make sense. When you take the reward away then there is no sense to do right. Thanks ATS for bending your ear.

That's a pretty deep set of questions. It's not really all about the afterlife. It's about understanding that your creator truly loves you and that he has been with you all along. My friend has found a deep peace in this knowledge and a place to come and feel closer to God in the Church, whose doors are always open. I strongly encourage you to look up your local Orthodox Priest and bluntly ask your questions. You may be rather surprised at the answers.

reply to post by TruthSeekerMike


I believe in the church Christ started. The bible clearly states that we are the temple. It is by the power of God the bible was written, preserved, and delivered to me. Every church claims that they are the truth and not a denomination but they all add titles to their church. Eastern Orthodoxy sounds like a denomination of Christianity. I am a Christian and so are you, we are part of the same church and it matters not what denomination you want to label yourself with.

I refuse the label of church denomination because it creates separation. If my message creates separation, the separation created is by those who have decided that they are more righteous than me. For I consider myself only a servant of Christ and thus a servant to all men, no more righteous than anyone else. I do not judge nor do I condemn, I simply share what I believe to be the truth. The Holy Spirit in you.

Scripture clearly states that Christians should sell everything they have and give to the poor. It never says that we should build large expensive buildings to worship God. The early Christians met in the homes of believers and all shared in the lords super and partook in the breaking of bread.

Jesus said that we are the temple and that the Holy Spirit would come and teach us all things. Scripture also says no longer would a man teach his neighbor because they will all know me. It does not say that you must go listen to a church or pastor to understand the truth.

The Holy Spirit is the only one who can interpret scripture and it is only through faith that one can learn to listen. You have put your faith in a church and a set of rules. I have put my faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit that he promised to me through scripture. You believe Christ set up a church that you must go to and learn from. I see myself as part of a church that has no walls, one in which all believers are equal and Christ is the only teacher and only priest.

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

If the Church hadn't provided the Bible you wouldn't have been able to hold such beliefs. Christ is the head of the Church, it is His body. How could the organization be above him? You fail to understand the concept of original truth being preserved unaltered. Orthodoxy is not a denomination, it is The Christian Church. Anything or anyone else that has ever called itself Christian has no one to thank for receiving the Gospel but the Orthodox Church. It is just the bottom line historical truth. If you believe Christ walked this Earth then you must believe he started a Church as he promised and you must trust it or you can't trust the Bible they compiled.

Nicely said, Everything that takes place on this earth is God's Will.

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike

Originally posted by ChuckNasty
reply to post by TruthSeekerMike

 

To the OP - I understand that Jesus was a Jew and went by the Law of Moses. Jesus also wanted all to know that by understanding Him and His ways was the path to the Kingdom of God.

This Church you speak of...well, is all about money and power. Money and power isn't a sin, but the lust for it can be seen as a sin. Jesus never said we all have to pay monies to the church - he just wanted us to help the less fortunate (not the lazy welfare/baby factory bums). Jesus also wanted us to give into the spirit...not give into what the church calls a spirit so they get more money and power. We must keep the Sabbath holy, work hard, and help those in REAL need (elderly, deformed, sick, etc).


WWJD - he would bitch slap all of us for being so gullible.

The Orthodox Church is about money and power? Never heard that one before. Methinks you have no idea what the Orthodox Church is about. Good job regurgitating your conditioning though!

Then you sir, are living under a rock.

Look at your Orhodox Church - how glorious does it look? Many things laid in gold or gold color? Riches spent on material lust and fine furniture? Or does it hold many rooms for boarding those who are in need? The soup kitchen is around back for all those in need to come and eat and rejoice? How many songs of golden mansions when you get to heaven are sung there? When a person brings in X amount of persons, how are they honored? Is there a dress code? If not, how are those who dress in 'rags' viewed upon?

Money and power will corrupt all.

WWJD - he'd whip the crap out of you and your church.

After reading the OP, and only the OP, this is what it sounds like to me. "I'm right and everyone else is wrong". I have Greek orthodox friends, and this is exactly how they think(not all of them). Some even go as far as saying, the Patriarch of the Greek Orthodox Church sold out when Greece adopted the Gregorian calendar. They still use the Julian for moveable feasts.

These few who see it that way, believe that their little corner of Christianity is the RIGHT way, and everyone else is wrong. It's amusing that the most hardcore Orthodox Greek friend got married in a new calendar church.

That's my 2 cents.