The Ten Commandments.

Originally posted by TheCelestialHuman
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

back to the challenge:
since you are not a christian, but you seem to believe in god and satan, name for me one moral action that a believer (like yourself) can do, that a nonbeliever can not do..
then, i would like for you to name me an immoral action that is almost always done by believers but not done by nonbelievers..

edit on 4-5-2012 by TheCelestialHuman because: (no reason given)

I never said believers in God can be more moral than atheists. So I refuse to take this challenge. I know for a fact that an atheist is a human and a christian is a human and that each individual is capable of doing anything and everything a human can do, not because they have certain beliefs, but because they are human.

However, a believer in God is more likely to have the proper motivation to be moral than a non-believer. Although this is not always the case.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Since you don't want to take the challenge i will answer instead..
there is no moral action that a believer can do than an atheist can not.
However, human sacrifice, genocide, genital mutilation, and suicide bombing is almost exclusively religious.. the point i was trying to make is that neither god nor satan are required for people to be moral.. people are moral without god and satan influence, therefore, it is safe to say that morality does not come from god or satan. we would know right from wrong without either of them. the point of the thread was to show the problems with the ten commandments..

reply to post by smithjustinb

Like I said, if you believe in the universe, you believe in God because the universe is God. So Mr. Atheist... Do you believe in the universe?

This may be the way you define god, but i don't see the universe as a god.. yes i believe in the universe, but i do not believe that a god created it. i can not disprove the existence of god, but the universe works without the assumption that god exists.

God isn't just an idea. God is the creator- the circumstances that led to the emergence and propogation of diverse life forms. I believe before there was an intelligent life form, there had to be something else that was intelligent because I don't believe that intelligence can come from something non-intelligent. I mean I literally try to trace evolution all the way back to the first organism that emerged and say to myself, "alright, now what was before this?" And there's no life form. But then an orgnaism emerged that was already equipped with the ability to reproduce; to make copies of itself???? That's a big jump. The only logical conclusion I could come to, at that point, was that there had to be something within the structure of the universe itself that had a need for this kind of activity and something that was conducive to this kind of thing emerging. I mean, its like the first life form emerged already equipped with the knowledge that it was going to want or need to make copies of itself. This pre-emergent knowledge implies that there was a pre-emergent intelligence that informed the emerging being (by creating it that way) that it was going to need to reproduce. I don't think it was anything supernatural, but I do think that the entire universe is alive- even that which we consider to be "inanimate", and that this aliveness served as a template for the emergence of a diverse variety of creative, geometric life forms. So if you believe in the universe, you believe in God, or at least, God as I define God.

You may very well believe that god is the creator, however, all your work is still ahead of you in proving this to be true. as far as i am concerned, god is not real. i could be wrong, but considering there is no real evidence that would suggest god's existence, all i can go by is modern science. before there was an intelligent life form, there did not have to be any creator.. intelligent humans and animals are the product of a long evolutionary cycle. the first organisms were not intelligent, amoebas and bacteria would not be considered intelligent in any way.. they do not reason or have the ability to think. but, through natural selection and genetic mutation, over the course of millions of years, this led to the development of other lifeforms. the theory of evolution works without the idea of a god being behind it, as does everything else currently observable.

Its actually thou shalt not murder*, not kill. Common mistranslation. And yes, there is difference between killing and murdering, and sometimes killing someone is justified.

Originally posted by TheCelestialHuman
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

people are moral without god and satan influence, therefore, it is safe to say that morality does not come from god or satan. we would know right from wrong without either of them.

Actually, people don't even exist without God. Therefore, morality comes from God.

If you want to prove to anyone that morality doesn't come from God, you have to prove that there is no God.

God, who created all things, also created morality. God also created Satan who introduced us to morality.

Mosaic Law (i.e. the Ten Commandments and laws of Exodus) is nothing other than an outright plagiarism of statements of the Egyptian Book of the Dead (reference chapter 125).

Who were the (post Druidic) Jews? They were the rulers and regents of Egypt; a.k.a. the Hyksos; even Josephus acknowledges this in Antiquities of the Jews.

If you think the Ten Commandments were originally written in Hebrew then you have another thing coming to you.
Do your own research based on credible (non-Zionist/non-Freemason) sources.

Incidentally, YHWH is none other than the tribal deity of the Midianite high priest, Jethro (Moses' father-in-law), a notorious Kenite. Forget who inherited the title of high priest afterwards?: It was Moses' brother, Aaron.
How many ways can you say, "nepotism" and "tyranny"? Find out the origin of the place name "Sinai". Cross reference your findings with the name of the Semitic lunar deity.

The Sabbath, which is to be held on Saturday (day of Saturn/Satan) was indeed moved to Sunday by later Christians for a very good reason. Look into the Jewish Kabbala to discover the undeniable connection.
Ever hear of Baphomet's "Black Sabbath"? Run an etymological/encyclopaedic inquiry on the word, "Sabbat".

All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
John 10:8

reply to post by smithjustinb

Actually, people don't even exist without God. Therefore, morality comes from God. If you want to prove to anyone that morality doesn't come from God, you have to prove that there is no God. God, who created all things, also created morality. God also created Satan who introduced us to morality.

this is all your personal belief. we could still be moral without a god. all your work is still ahead of you in proving your god's existence. morality, works without the idea of a god being behind it. for example atheists can be just as moral as theists. and in many cases theists are more immoral. to say that god is required for morality is ridiculous. all that you have stated is your personal belief with no evidence to support it. i on the other hand, have stated my disbelief, the reason for it, and evidence to support it all throughout this thread. i am tired of repeating the same arguments, so perhaps you should reread the entire thread..

reply to post by 1nOne


The god of the Hyksos (Hebrews) was called "Baal" (Egyptian counterpart, "Set").
Baal and Set are aliases of Satan.

The inscription of El-Arish, told from an Egyptian perspective, recounts scenes from the Exodus.
In it, the Israelites are referred to as, "the evil-ones".

Jesus to the Jews:

I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: and ye also do the things which ye heard from your father.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. (John 8:38,44,47)

Additionally, it is important to distinguish between the peoples of the land of Palestine (Judea) at the time of Christ. Jesus was an Aramaic/Greek-speaking Galilean, NOT a Jew, as the Freemasons/Zionists would have you believe:

In the 330s BCE, Macedonian ruler Alexander the Great conquered the region, and the region changed hands numerous times during the wars of the Diadochi. ultimately joining the Seleucid Empire between 219-200 BCE. In 116 BCE, a Seleucid civil war resulted in the independence of certain regions including the minor Hasmonean principality in the Judean Mountains. From 110 BCE, the Hasmoneans extended their authority over much of Palestine, creating a Judean-Samaritan-Idumaean-Ituraean-Galilean alliance. The Judean (Jewish, see Ioudaioi) control over the wider region resulted in it also becoming known as Judaea, a term which had previously only referred to the smaller region of the Judean Mountains. (Wikipedia: Palestine)

Originally posted by TheCelestialHuman
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Actually, people don't even exist without God. Therefore, morality comes from God. If you want to prove to anyone that morality doesn't come from God, you have to prove that there is no God. God, who created all things, also created morality. God also created Satan who introduced us to morality.

this is all your personal belief. we could still be moral without a god. all your work is still ahead of you in proving your god's existence. morality, works without the idea of a god being behind it. for example atheists can be just as moral as theists. and in many cases theists are more immoral. to say that god is required for morality is ridiculous. all that you have stated is your personal belief with no evidence to support it. i on the other hand, have stated my disbelief, the reason for it, and evidence to support it all throughout this thread. i am tired of repeating the same arguments, so perhaps you should reread the entire thread..

All I'm saying is that if there is a God, then you couldn't be moral without God because you wouldn't even exist to have or not have morals. I agree with you that atheists can be just as moral as theists, and I also agree that theists tend to be psychotic.

But, all I was saying was, people who believe in God are more likely to be MOTIVATED to be moral than people who don't believe in God. That's my argument. Like, who's gonna give a crap what they do if life is an accident and there actions don't really matter in the end? Inversely, I can see why people who believe there existence has a purpose are more likely to be on their best behavior.

But I'm not arguing with you that atheists and theists can both accomplish the same moral aptitude. I am arguing that theists are more likely to be the ones to care.