China Is No Longer Communist!! Why can't people understand this?

I recently asked my Chinese friends how they thought Chairman Mao would react if he was suddenly brought back to life in the 21st century. “Not happy” and “Disappointed” were the most common answers that I received; I was not surprised by such responses. After all, it is difficult to find very many reasons to label China as communist these days. The ruling party in China still calls itself communist. The international media still likes to refer to China as a communist giant. But where is communism still manifested in China today? Where are the basic Communist values of sharing and equality evident in Chinese society now? They cannot be found. Quite simply, China is no longer a communist country.

If we are looking for evidence of communism in China, the first and most important place to look is at the economy. The economy in China is now decidedly capitalistic in nature. Average Chinese citizens can start their own businesses and put their income into private bank accounts. Chinese citizens can buy stocks in companies and enjoy the revenues or suffer the losses. As of just a few years ago, private property rights have been greatly enhanced in China, and Chinese people can now be more secure that their land will not be taken away from them. Let us not forget about the heavy international investment that has been permitted in China which has played a major role in fueling this developing and booming economy. As a result, there are very rich people and very poor people in China as well as an emerging middle class. Chinese citizens, who always carried a good sense for business but were restricted from entrepreneurship in the past have now been more free to take risks and build successful companies. Thus capitalism has transformed the Chinese economy and changed people’s lives forever.

teachabroadchina.com...


The full article goes on, basically chinese citizens now have private property rights, not only can they start businesses a whopping 70% of their GDP is from private chinese business. People can get wealthy, can horde their wealth, shop at mcdonalds, surf the internet etc etc.

the COMMUNIST PARTY OF CHINA IS REALLY MORE OF A SOCIALIST-CAPITALIST ECONOMY that only monopolizes and controls certain key industries such as oil and transportation.

Their Communist in name only!!!!!

yes, they have very bad human rights attrocities going on, they don't have free speech, the government can censor the papers, people get beaten up by police, citizens aren't allowed to protest etc but that doesn't necessarily make them communist. There are much worse states in africa for human rights attrocities, and there not communist. Lack of human rights does not equal communist!!

Even the way they run their government is even more of a dictatorship than it is communist!! this one is a little nitpicky though, because most communist governments are basically dictatorships in terms of leadership. they sure aren't democracies.

I'm debating someone in this thread www.abovetopsecret.com... who just can't understand that China now employs capitalist and socialist economic policies!!! Its ridiculous!! How can people be so stupid!! China has been reforming from communism for 30+ years now!!! So many times in ATS i see people never change their mind, but never over something so stupid!! its not like this is up for debate, 10 minitues on google will show anyone that China is no longer 100% communist.


Its so frustrating to debate someone who doesn't even bother to do a google search and find stuff out for thereselves! ATS is full of these kind of people who will just spout the same thing and same thing and ignore all evidence to the contrary its disgusting.


link to new york times article- "China approves law that protects private property"

www.nytimes.com...

link to new york times article- "Private Business in China"

www.nytimes.com...

Here is a link to wikipedia explaining the economy of Modern China, which according to the most recent figure i could find has 70% of its gdp in the private sector. That means Private Chinese Businesses.

en.wikipedia.org...

When China stops calling ITSELF Communist.......when they aren't ruled by a form of Government that follows and adheres to the Communist structure and power arrangement....and when their economic system is something ELSE simply with Communist features rather than a Communist nation with Capitalist feature...THEN I'll be happy to hear all about how China isn't Communist.

The fact of the matter is, the communist leaders of China that murdered countless people in Tienanmen Square haven't gone anywhere. This isn't Russia where massive change have come. Beijing hasn't changed a bit and the men who ordered those deaths in the street are still leading that nation today. Some retired...some promoted..but the men who were in that square are not in prison. They're running your "not communist" nation.

I have no truck with China being Communist by the way. To each their own and it's not our place to say much....if their Communist philosophy isn't brought here. That IS happening though, and so, I DO suddenly have problems.

Sorry if Communism is such a dirty term these days, some will do anything to give it another term or redefine what it means....but China by IT'S OWN GOVERNMENT and it's own system IS Communist. No amount of wishing or blogging will change that one bit.

There is a quick test that can determine whether a nation is truly Communist...If the people own the means of production, then they can be classed as Communist. If the people do not own the means of production then that system is not Communist. If one actually reads the doctrines for these ideologies, it will be found that many of our modern preconceptions and beliefs about what exactly those ideologies entail are a bit skewed in some cases.

This is one of them, for various reasons. But the creators of Communism stressed the importance of the people taking over the means of production from the bourgeoisie...There are other tests that may be necessary if the answer to my initial question is in the affirmative, but I chose that question because I do not think the people of China own the means of production.

Because they are idiots, China is an Authoritarianism regime, has been for years.

No Communist country would ever have an Apple iStore for one.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


a name doesn't really mean much, look at north korea, othewise known as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

they actually don't have communist form of economics at all, its much more like socialism.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


also just because they commit attrocities doesn't make them communist. repressive yes, communist no. Or does that mean that German under hitler was communist?? yes we know they're repressive and its the same people in charge that were communist, but now they're employing varied economic principles.

70% of their GDP is from private business for christ sakes, and your ganna say there still communist??

Definition of Communism- People/Government own the means of Production. normally includes government owning all property too.

China- 70% private businesses owning means of production. Private property is owned by citizens.

just because they didn't change their name doesn't mean anything. you've never heard of the Chinese economic reform? try looking it up

the COMMUNIST PARTY OF CHINA IS REALLY MORE OF A SOCIALIST-CAPITALIST ECONOMY that only monopolizes and controls certain key industries such as oil and transportation.

reply to post by Nephlim


The King of Saudi Arabia is too a zionist....

the covers of oz are falling down.

we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto!!!

reply to post by Nephlim

Well, I'll agree with your point that committing atrocities does not make a Communist nation. Of course, Communist nations do more than their fair share of atrocities, but they sure have no corner on the horror market. In this case though, the atrocities of Tienanmen Square were specifically about the Communist Party control of the Chinese nation protecting their own future and making absolutely certain no 'Glasnost' nonsense would be coming to a Chinese street any time soon. They succeeded, I'd say. There hasn't been a major push since and may never be in that form again. I suppose people DO learn when you just slaughter enough of them at once. That is the face of Communism when pushed to the wall.

You note a large % of the Chinese Economy is private sector. well, yes, it is. ...and No, it's not. It's a funny little morphing of Communism and Capitalism they have going over there. For a large % of major industry and business, it isn't Mr. Wu or Chang in some Trump style mansion who own the businesses in the end, It's an address at the People's Liberation Army / Navy. China's Military sector has paws DEEP into most private sector...so calling it private really is a mixed bag. You're not technically wrong.....but that isn't Western capitalism. I'd call it far more a Communist Regime realizing two things after the massacre in Tienanmen Square.

1. The people were pissed and that wasn't fading away. It'd take years after that slaughter, but the people WOULD be back.

2. If controlled under the iron fist of Communist structure, Capitalist concepts aren't so bad after all. It makes people happy, obsessed with gizmos and too busy focused on the next Iphone release to worry about Beijing Leaders screwing the people.

So.. Absolutely, they DID bring in elements of our free market system. They just brought in those elements which most benefit the Chinese state with benefit to the people beyond that being a side bonus, but hardly the point.

China and Rothschilds already are doing business ... both ways.

Bank of China Limited (BOC) SSE: 601988 SEHK: 3988 (simplified Chinese: 中国银行; traditional Chinese: 中國銀行; pinyin: Zhōngguó Yínháng; often abbreviated as 中銀 or 中行) is one of the big four state-owned commercial banks of the People's Republic of China. It was founded in 1912 by the Government of the Republic of China, to replace the Government Bank of Imperial China. It is the oldest bank in China. From its establishment until 1942, it issued banknotes on behalf of the Government of the Republic of China along with the "Big Four" banks of the period: the Central Bank of China, Farmers Bank of China and Bank of Communications. Although it initially functioned as the Chinese central bank, in 1928 the Central Bank of China replaced it in that role. Subsequently, BOC became a purely commercial bank. Its headquarters are in Xicheng District, Beijing.[2]

In December 2010, the Bank of China New York branch began offering RMB products for Americans.[3] This is the first major Chinese bank to offer such a product currently.

2008 Bank of China buys 20 percent stake in La Compagnie Financiere Edmond de Rothschild (LCFR) for 236.3 million euros (US$340 million)

en.wikipedia.org...

When Jennifer Yu, Rothschild's top executive in China, wanted the firm to advise Chinese carmaker Zhejiang Geely on its bid for Volvo, some colleagues at the bank's headquarters in Europe were skeptical. A senior banker asked her how a "mouse" like Geely could swallow an "elephant" like Volvo. "There's a dragon behind this mouse, and it's China," Yu recalls answering. She and the team handling Geely won the argument, and Geely won the bidding. It completed the takeover of Volvo from Ford Motor (F) for more than $1.3 billion on Aug. 2.

Rothschild, the more-than-200-year-old family-controlled banking dynasty, is making a big move in China, and Yu is leading the charge.

Jennifer Yu Leads Rothschild's China Push

The People's Bank of China (PBC or PBOC) is the central bank of the People's Republic of China with the power to control monetary policy and regulate financial institutions in mainland China. The People’s Bank of China has the most financial assets of any single public finance institution ever.[2]

People's Bank of China


All the politicing is diversionary.


Rothschild targets China


Rothschild Offices
(several in China)

There's "LOADS" of international corporations in China also.

Not small stones either

In 1979, there were 100 foreign-owned enterprises in China. In 1998, there were 280,000. As of 2007, foreign companies employed 25 million people in China. U.S. companies with offices in Beijing include Google, Microsoft, FMC, Cigna, Unisys and General Electric. U.S. companies with major production facilities in Shanghai include Dupont, Rohm & Haas and General Electric. As of early 2010, Fortune 500 companies had 98 research and development facilities in China.

Foreign companies in China include Coca Cola, Pepsi Cola, Nike, AT&T Corp., Bristol-Myers Squibb Co., Citibank, Morgan Stanley & Co., Volkswagen AG, Unilever, Toshiba Corp., Matsu#a Electrical Industrial Co., General Motors, France's Citreon, Philips Electronics, Cisco, Microsoft, Motorola, Samsung Electronics, NEC. Proctor and Gamble, Wringley chewing gum.and Hitachi Ltd.

FOREIGN COMPANIES IN CHINA

Chasing Rare Earths, Foreign Companies Expand in China


Welcome to the O.ne ...W.orld ...E.conomy !

.... as in "you O.W.E. me money !

Oh and one more thing .... China buys up loads of U.S. Bonds !

Ask the residents from the former communities now buried under Three Gorges Dam, how they feel about their property rights.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Nephlim

 

You note a large % of the Chinese Economy is private sector. well, yes, it is. ...and No, it's not. It's a funny little morphing of Communism and Capitalism they have going over there. For a large % of major industry and business, it isn't Mr. Wu or Chang in some Trump style mansion who own the businesses in the end, It's an address at the People's Liberation Army / Navy. China's Military sector has paws DEEP into most private sector...so calling it private really is a mixed bag. You're not technically wrong.....but that isn't Western capitalism.

can you prove that?? because the new york times article i quoted says anyone can open a business in china. its hard to get money for, but there are many people that open private businesses. Chinese government owns many bussiness, but they are fastly being overpowered by the free market. so that now more than 70% of the economy is private bussinesses.

here's an article about the abundance of small businesses in china.
www.informationweek.com...

and yes, the communist party of china tried to stay in power and away from western influence with the massacre of tienam square. that doesn't reallly prove they're 100% communist, here's the first paragraph from wikipedia about the massacre.

The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, also known as the June Fourth Incident in Chinese,[1] were a series of demonstrations in and near Tiananmen Square in Beijing China beginning on 15 April 1989.

In the late 1970s, the Chinese leadership led by Deng Xiaoping implemented economic reforms, transitioning the nation from Maoist Communism into a "socialist market economy".[2] By the late 1980s, grievances over inflation, limited career prospects for students, and corruption of the party elite were growing rapidly. Internationally, Communist governments were losing their grip on power in Eastern Europe. In April 1989, spurred by the death of deposed Communist Party General Secretary Hu Yaobang, mass gatherings and protests took place in and around Tiananmen Square.[3] The largely student-run demonstrations aimed for continued economic reform and liberalization,[4] and eventually evolved into a mass movement for political reform and freedom of the press.[4] Peaceful protests also occurred in other cities, such as Shanghai and Wuhan, while looting and rioting broke out in Xi'an and Changsha.[5]

China Is No Longer Communist?

Good thread, but I just want to add that China was never communist in the first place.

China did not have a communist economy. Communism is not a form of government, but a type of economy.

“China is only communist in the most limited sense,” Suzanne Ogden, a China scholar and professor at Northeastern University told The Inquirer. “There is a one-party system of rule. Apart from that, there’s no pursuit of communist ideology or serious pursuit of Marxism. There are a lot of wealthy people in China.”

www.nyinquirer.com...

Understand what communism really is, and this becomes pretty clear.

In the anarchist, Marxist and socialist sense, free association (also called free association of producers or, as Marx often called it, community of freely associated individuals) is a kind of relation between individuals where there is no state, social class or authority, in a society that has abolished the private property of means of production. Once private property is abolished, individuals are no longer deprived of access to means of production so they can freely associate themselves (without social constraint) to produce and reproduce their own conditions of existence and fulfill their needs and desires.

en.wikipedia.org...

State ownership is nationalism, not communism...

Nationalization (British English spelling nationalisation) is the process of taking an industry or assets into government ownership by a national government or state.[1] Nationalization usually refers to private assets, but may also mean assets owned by lower levels of government, such as municipalities, being transferred to the public sector to be operated and owned by the state. The opposite of nationalization is usually privatization or de-nationalization, but may also be municipalization.

en.wikipedia.org...

The confusion comes from Marxism, a political route to communism, and the temporary nationalism that was a transitional period to communism, not communism itself. Anarchist socialists apposed the political route to communism and desired direct action.

Governments can call themselves whatever they choose, it is how the economy is organized that matters. The term communism was/is used as propaganda, by both sides.

note where it says that the economy changed from communism to a socialist market system!!! The protest were about that, and how it should keep going towards westernism specifically in regards to freedom of speech.

so i don't really see how your quoting tiananmen square over and over proves there communist

reply to post by ANOK


yeah, i agree. technically no country has implemented a full 100% marxist communism.

one critera, on top of all the others you stated is that there would have to be no leader besides the people.
Every communist country always has the leaders taking charge and making those around him wealthy at the expense of others.

its really sad really, but thats humans for you, always trying to grab and stay in power