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The Catholic Church brings back indulgences, can you buy your way to heaven w/ the root of all evil?

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posted on May, 1 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by pheonix358
 


True true I really should just put it all on the table about the rapist papist
but I only softballed it to be coy, and add humor to a sad sad SAD thing. But sadly true as for Jerkin Von Ratzinger (aka spooky pope) I fairly sure he's guilty of playing "sit on my lap or go to hell" with the young kids.




posted on May, 1 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by merkej23
I fairly sure he's guilty of playing "sit on my lap or go to hell" with the young kids.



And do you have anything to back that up aside from a vague hunch? The man has been a member of the clergy for 60 years and, in spite of the fact that even spurious claims would get someone on every talk show in existence and plenty of $, there have never been claims of abuse.

Eric



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by EricD
 

Dear EricD,

I return to this thread now and again and I'm now asking "What's the point?" It's been shown over and over that the OP is misleading at best, and that the thread has become a gathering place for petty, spite-filled people who make baseless accusations and cowardly, inane attacks.

I admire the work you've done here, but seeing that no one is paying any attention to intelligence and reason, is it time to say "Pearls before swine?"

People calling people evil because they're not physically attractive? Will they become devout Catholics if a photogenic Pope is elected? And if that's the depth of their moral analysis, they cannot be trusted to interact with normal humans.

Keep fighting if you'd like, or give me a reason and I'll join in, or walk away from this cesspool. In any case know that I am impressed with your efforts and analysis. If you don't mind, I'll toss a prayer your way.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You can't show any proof for your claims. You just keep telling those who adhere to the religion and who study it professionally that they're wrong. "Oh, you want proof? You're just too blind to see the truth."

Come on. You just believe these things because it's fun or fits into your worldview. It doesn't matter if the religious texts of a given faith are quoted to show you're wrong; you just keep going.

Yes, I am a practicing Catholic. I also hold advanced degrees in theology and Church history. And yet you're going to tell me that I don't know what my own religion posits? My academic superiors (many of whom are not fans of the Church) really are ignorant and just need to listen to X on an internet forum to get the truth?

The Roman Catholic Church believes that selling indulgences is a grave sin. That's all there is to it.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by InfoKartel
 


What is your point? Jesus Christ Himself calls Abraham father in Matthew 3:9. Did He lose the Christian faith? Perhaps your reading of Scripture is a bit too simple, no? A bit too literal? There are numerous mentions of both spiritual and earthly fathers in the New Testament. Saint Stephen uses the term in Acts and Saint Paul does the same on at least 4 occasions in Acts and Romans. How about the 5th commandment?

You either have to conclude that Scripture contradicts itself or that your understanding of the "call no man father" passage is incorrect.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by merkej23
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


yeah but got better
and I also think she weighs the same as a duck.


THAT WAS A MISTRIAL!!!!!

It was a goose, not a duck!!




posted on May, 2 2012 @ 05:28 AM
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reply to post by EricD
 



Really? Do they? Can you point out where that is?


Errr...just ask one? Or just ask the brainwashed alter boys.


And why is it odd that someone would point out where you are wrong and not point out where you are right (if you are)? Wouldn't this just turn into a huge echo chamber if you posted to say you agree with something every time you are in accord with a post?


That's what the stars are for...who knew huh?



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by merkej23
I fairly sure he's guilty of playing "sit on my lap or go to hell" with the young kids.



And do you have anything to back that up aside from a vague hunch? The man has been a member of the clergy for 60 years and, in spite of the fact that even spurious claims would get someone on every talk show in existence and plenty of $, there have never been claims of abuse.

Eric


He was head of some part of the church when abuses happened. He knew about them. He did nothing about the,.

Okay, now it's your turn to defend pedophile defenders.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 05:33 AM
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Originally posted by AntoniusBlock
reply to post by InfoKartel
 


What is your point? Jesus Christ Himself calls Abraham father in Matthew 3:9. Did He lose the Christian faith?


"HEAVENLY" Father. Not just father. But nice attempt.


Perhaps your reading of Scripture is a bit too simple, no? A bit too literal? There are numerous mentions of both spiritual and earthly fathers in the New Testament. Saint Stephen uses the term in Acts and Saint Paul does the same on at least 4 occasions in Acts and Romans. How about the 5th commandment?

You either have to conclude that Scripture contradicts itself or that your understanding of the "call no man father" passage is incorrect.



This is just a bunch of bla-bla. You either know the point I'm making or you don't. You can't weasel your way out by saying "your understanding is incorrect"...if that were the case, then I could say the same to you. Fact remains, the pope is made out to be some kind of a holy figure and beyond that a holy father figure, a role specifically laid aside for the Almighty...why? Well, you need to study psychology to know why.

PS.

What's will all the statue adoration in the Catholic church? Lighting candles - that you pay for? What's all this hogwash then?!



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 06:06 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
Catholics still call the pope "heavenly father".

WRONG. Catholics do NOT refer to the pope as 'heavenly father'.

Well I guess that suits your pro-Catholic agenda.

.... says the person who goes around telling falsehoods against the Catholic faith all so it fits his own anti-Catholic agenda. :shk:

Originally posted by InfoKartel
now it's your turn to defend pedophile defenders.

If you defend Martin Luther, then you defend a perv who said it was okay for men to rape the household staff if the wife wasn't in the mood for sex.

Originally posted by InfoKartel
What's will all the statue adoration in the Catholic church?

More spewing of B.S. to suit your anti-Catholic agenda.
No one 'adores' statues. Adoration = worship, which belongs to God alone.

Seriously dude. Read the freak'n catechism before you speak about what the Catholic church believes or doesn't believe. Right now .. all you are doing is tossing out ignroant Jack-Chickisms. :shk:

Catehism of the Catholic Church

Catholics sometimes refer to the pope as the 'HOLY FATHER IN ROME'.
(Borrowing from the tradition started by Paul in the New Testament.)
They don't say 'heavenly father' ... and to use your words .. nice attempt though.
EPIC FAIL on your part


Catholic Answers - nickname for the pope - holy father


The New Testament is filled with examples of and references to spiritual father-son and father-child relationships. Many people are not aware just how common these are, so it is worth quoting some of them here.

Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his child: "Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ" (1 Cor. 4:17); "To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (1 Tim. 1:2); "To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (2 Tim. 1:2).

He also referred to Timothy as his son: "This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare" (1 Tim 1:18); "You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 2:1); "But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel" (Phil. 2:22).

Paul also referred to other of his converts in this way: "To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior" (Titus 1:4); "I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment" (Philem. 10). None of these men were Paul’s literal, biological sons. Rather, Paul is emphasizing his spiritual fatherhood with them.


edit on 5/2/2012 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 06:52 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



WRONG. Catholics do NOT refer to the pope as 'heavenly father'.


So that documentary that went inside the Vatican and recorded these little kids who absolutely idolized the pope as the bridge between heaven and earth...

that totally didn't happen because you say so.


.... says the person who goes around telling falsehoods against the Catholic faith all so it fits his own anti-Catholic agenda.


You can't just jump into a conversation and then say stuff out of context. The "pro-catholic" argument is because the same thing you just typed up there was said by a catholic before you. It's retarded, if you don't want to read the Bible at least read the conversation you are partaking in.


If you defend Martin Luther, then you defend a perv who said it was okay for men to rape the household staff if the wife wasn't in the mood for sex.


In the meantime, the pope, former Nazi-Jügend, current defender of pedophiles, is alive and kicking. And being seen as some kind of biblical authority on Earth. Which is a sin for crying out loud.


No one 'adores' statues. Adoration = worship, which belongs to God alone.


So all those heads bowing towards those statues are fine and dandy.


Seriously dude. Read the freak'n catechism before you speak about what the Catholic church believes or doesn't believe.


Not needed, your actions do the talking for you.


Catholics sometimes refer to the pope as the 'HOLY FATHER IN ROME'.


Yes and it makes perfect sense to do that, according to you. Good for you. Keep on doing it until you lose your breath and voice, see if I care how you feel about a pedophile defender. In fact, I challenge you to find people that care.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by InfoKartel
 



You got caught posting errors and lies about the Catholic church.
I gave proof that the popes nickname is 'holy father' .. not 'heavenly father'.
I have given scripture quotes and links to actual church law and teachings.
Church teachings ... worship belongs to God alone.
Church teachings ... no one worships statues.
(do you 'worship' dead relatives when you look at their pictures or 'talk' to them?)
Just admit what you posted was bs ... confess .... it's good for the soul.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


How do you distinguish worship from veneration or praying to Jesus versus requesting intercessory prayer from a saint?

This was confusing for me when I was Orthodox. Instead of simply praying to God I had to think "let's see should I pray to St. X or St. Y or maybe a dead relative or the Theotokos or God?" Or if I was bowing and kissing an icon of St. Q in church how was that different from worship?

On the main topic, it seems like purgatory is the the Catholic Church's private extra hell which they control. I guess if it works for Catholics that's fine with me. It probably motivates them to do good things from the selfish fear that they might suffer in purgatory otherwise.

edit on 2-5-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by cloudyday
How do you distinguish worship from veneration or praying to Jesus versus requesting intercessory prayer from a saint?


BIG DIFFERENCE
Worship belongs to God .. that's Who is in charge.
Intercessory prayer ... asking others to pray to God for you.

If you ask your friends to pray to God for you, then you are engaging in intercessory prayer.
Catholics interpret the bible to say that those who have gone to heaven are aware of what
is happening on earth and we can continue to ask those people to pray to God for us.

Asking someone to pray for you is not the same as worshipping them.

The Catholic interpretation for intercessory prayer

The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2).

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



I gave proof that the popes nickname is 'holy father' .. not 'heavenly father'.


It's the same! Which Father is Holy to you then? Or are you of the crooked kind that talks about holy wars, holy food, holy this, holy that?


Just admit what you posted was bs ... confess .... it's good for the soul.


WHAT I posted is accurate. It's your continuous weaseling around words to talk right that which is crooked that is wrong. Not me asking WHY is it like that in your belief...your instant jump to defensive mode means you KNOW something is wrong.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel

He was head of some part of the church when abuses happened. He knew about them. He did nothing about the,.



Ok, I'm going to use small words and be as direct as possible.

Do you have any evidence at all that the Pope has molested any children?

Eric



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by FlyersFan
 



I gave proof that the popes nickname is 'holy father' .. not 'heavenly father'.


It's the same! Which Father is Holy to you then? Or are you of the crooked kind that talks about holy wars, holy food, holy this, holy that?


Just admit what you posted was bs ... confess .... it's good for the soul.


WHAT I posted is accurate. It's your continuous weaseling around words to talk right that which is crooked that is wrong. Not me asking WHY is it like that in your belief...your instant jump to defensive mode means you KNOW something is wrong.


I'm not sure if you are joking or not. When you are shown that you are wrong, you say that heavenly and holy are the same and then almost right after complain about people weaseling around words. Hey pot, how's that kettle doing?

Eric



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by EricD
 



Really? Do they? Can you point out where that is?


Errr...just ask one? Or just ask the brainwashed alter boys.


So, I guess from your prevarication that you can't point to examples. Would that be safe to say?

If you are actually looking for where Catholics look for a 'bridge between Heaven and Earth', the answer is the Jesus.

www.romereports.com...



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by InfoKartel

He was head of some part of the church when abuses happened. He knew about them. He did nothing about the,.



Ok, I'm going to use small words and be as direct as possible.

Do you have any evidence at all that the Pope has molested any children?

Eric


He protected people that molested children.

I know it's hard for your indoctrinated minds to read what is written rather than read what you want.


If you are actually looking for where Catholics look for a 'bridge between Heaven and Earth', the answer is the Jesus.


All the words in the world won't change a thing about the actions that I've seen with my own eyes. Catholics refer to the pope as the bridge between heaven and earth and they idolize him to the point of holy, even referring to him as "holy father". This, about a man that was part of the Nazi Jügend and has in his service to the Catholic sect, protected child molesters. PERIOD.


When you are shown that you are wrong, you say that heavenly and holy are the same and then almost right after complain about people weaseling around words.


So you are saying, that man wearing the robe and holding so much gold it could feed an entire country...is a holy father to you. Well, all the best to you. I've got nothing to say to indoctrinated apologists.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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can heaven be bought with the devil's debt based currency that is created by the same bankers that it is claimed Jesus was sent here to deliver us from?


OP, I read your links and the NYTimes statement that you can earn one by financial contribution is dead wrong.:



Below are indulgences listed in the Handbook of Indulgences (New York: Catholic Book Publishing, 1991). Note that there is an indulgence for Bible reading. So, rather than discouraging Bible reading, the Catholic Church promotes it by giving indulgences for it! (This was the case long before Vatican II.)

• An act of spiritual communion, expressed in any devout formula whatsoever, is endowed with a partial indulgence.

• A partial indulgence is granted the Christian faithful who devoutly spend time in mental prayer.

• A plenary indulgence is granted when the rosary is recited in a church or oratory or when it is recited in a family, a religious community, or a pious association. A partial indulgence is granted for its recitation in all other circumstances.

• A partial indulgence is granted the Christian faithful who read sacred Scripture with the veneration due God’s word and as a form of spiritual reading. The indulgence will be a plenary one when such reading is done for at least one-half hour [provided the other conditions are met].

• A partial indulgence is granted to the Christian faithful who devoutly sign themselves with the cross while saying the customary formula: "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."

In summary, the practice of indulgences neither takes away nor adds to the work of Christ. It is his work, through his body the Church, raising up children in his own likeness. "The Christian who seeks to purify himself of his sin and to become holy with the help of God’s grace is not alone. ‘The life of each of God’s children is joined in Christ and through Christ in a wonderful way to the life of all the other Christian brethren in the supernatural unity of the Mystical Body of Christ, as in a single mystical person’" (Catechism of the Catholic Church 1474 [Indulgentarium Doctrina 5]).

www.catholic.com...

It's all about prayer. It has nothing to do with money.


Thanks for adding more fuel to the fire of religious hatred and misunderstanding. That must really please God.

Plenary indulgences and regular indulgences never left. No need to get your hatred and righteous indignation fired-up.
Nobody is selling them as in days of old.

Get it from the horse's mouth if you want to deny ignorance:

Indulgences
www.newadvent.org...
edit on 5/2/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: add something


Moderators this thread is disinformation and I think it belongs in the HOAX bin.
edit on 5/2/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)



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