The Catholic Church brings back indulgences, can you buy your way to heaven w/ the root of all evil?

reply to post by sirhumperdink


No. That's not how indulgences work. One can't donate anything to gain one. They are granted impersonally to those who engage in special religious devotions which do not involve money or working for the financial gain of the Church in any way.

They're nothing but an element of the spiritual life of the Church. They have absolutely nothing to do with money and are strictly forbidden to be sold or given for monetary donations and always have been.

Any theological or catechetical manual of the Church will tell you this basic information. It's fine if you don't believe in the practice, or if you think it is improper, but you can't mislabel it and argue against something which isn't true.

reply to post by AntoniusBlock


and yet they are frequently awarded to large donors
funny that

the concept as a whole seems entirely corrupt apart from that
somehow earthly recognition is going to magically translate into heavenly upon your death?

the papacy has no power over heaven hell or purgatory
so how would indulgences even work....

assuming you share the base beliefs of the religion it seems very contradictory to assume such a thing is in anyway legitimate

edit: it doesnt need to be "mislabeled" the label it has is indulgences which should bring forth ideas that would not be conductive to running ANY kind of spiritual organization

Well, it cost about half a million for a mafia boss to get buried next to popes. Why not buy off your sins? It's not like the Catholics make a lot of sense in other compartments. If you're willing to believe a man is the bridge between heaven and earth, and you call that man heavenly father, well then you're dumb enough to believe you can buy off your sins.

reply to post by sirhumperdink


You keep claiming that indulgences are awarded for donations. Could you post something, anything really, to back that up? Otherwise you're just making noise.

And, yes, I do believe that the papacy has authority and that what it binds is bound in heaven.

reply to post by InfoKartel


Catholics don't believe that you can buy off your sins. I realize that it's convenient to think that they believe that. It certainly makes it easier to argue against the Church. But you're incorrect.

There are no Catholics who believe this and the Church teaches the exact opposite. That's just the way it is.

reply to post by AntoniusBlock


www.romancatholicresources.com...
"1) The sale of indulgences finale some time ago. You honestly can not go to a priest and ask to buy some. What we saw was not an indulgence (and I have buried friends and family enough to know), but most likely a religious order a card stating that they will say a Mass or to pray for the soul of the deceased for a number of days . In general these are given after a donation, but any respectable order to offer a prayer without asking first."

"in general these are given after a donation"

acatholiclife.blogspot.com...
"131 Q. Why does the Church grant Indulgences?
A. In granting Indulgences the Church intends to aid our incapacity to expiate all the temporal punishment in this world, by enabling us to obtain by means of works of piety and Christian charity that which in the first ages Christians gained by the rigour of Canonical penances."

so i suppose its not exactly the same as an indulgence and asking for specific examples of this happening with indulgences are hard to find because the church is not required to disclose such information
so youll have to take it on faith that theyre "doing the right thing"
which i think youll have no problem doing

and i really feel no urge to argue with you because im certain no progress will be made and in fact the only reason im replying now is out of courtesy

its hardly debatable that the church is a money making operation and from there its not hard to see how things could possibly develop into what they are
and ill leave it at that

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000


I highly recommend everyone reading the book "The Two Babylons" By Alexander Hislop. I got the link for it and it comes in book form you can buy in any Hastings, Books a Million, or Barnes and Noble.

The Two Babylons

And I highly recommend that everyone do some research on The Two Babylons. You will quickly realize how deeply flawed the book is. Problems range from logical errors to poor research to not having accurate knowledge (a problem of the times the book was written in) of the myths and societies Hislop discusses.

A good starting point is Ralph Woodrow's (no friend of Catholicism, btw) The Babylon Connection?.

Eric

The Bible does speak of the literal Babylon and spiritual Babylon though. I actually suggest Dave Hunt's book.

The ironic thing is that paying the organized church anything is just a waste of money. There is no omniscient, omnipresent being who is intimately involved in human lives. Jesus was a fictional figure whose "divinity" was voted on (and almost rejected).

There is an actual weighing of the soul at death, and my guess is that the indulgence buyers, and many others, will come up far short.

I don't know if any one posted this yet, but. You can't BUY them. You can give donations that are not limited to the church, though they are not worth as much as just doing good. This is not that "out there" as some may think. If you do good deeds, then you can get time off purgatory.

The practice of buying them was outlawed in the 1500´s and the entire practice of indulgences was only removed in Vatican 2.....not that long ago. It's not a throw back, it is the catholic faith.

Originally posted by Danbones

These days, you can get a deal on anything. Even salvation! Pope Benedict has announced that his faithful can once again pay the Catholic Church to ease their way through Purgatory and into the Gates of Heaven.

Never mind that Martin Luther fired up the Reformation because of them: Plenary Indulgences are back.

The New York Times reports that even though the church officially broke with the age-old practice — you do something good, and the Church will help absolve you — in 1960, the Pope has quietly reintroduced it.

www.infowars.com...

well ATS what thinkest thou:
can heaven be bought with the devil's debt based currency that is created by the same bankers that it is claimed Jesus was sent here to deliver us from?

edit on 30-4-2012 by Danbones because: fixed title

edit on 30-4-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

It cannot be bought from the Catholic Church at all because they do not represent anything devine at all except the people among their priests and bishops that are in fact awaken/enlightened/one with god (and I am not sure anyone of them are that except maybe Desmond Tutu). You can by using the money for the good of all people create good karma and but if you used parasitic behaviour to get the money (and created bad karma) then you are probably in bad shape if you can't fix that bad karma first. This shows how screwed up Christianety is in their way of beliving it is ok to be an asshole/parasite as long as you are an Christian asshole and belive Jesus will save you. Sorry actions speak louder than words. There might be a few true Christians among the Catholics but many are clearly Anti-Christs and they have shown it with their actions. The blind leading the blind.

reply to post by apushforenlightment


I found your response kind of offensive man. It is your opinion, but you generalized allot and like I said, the church only wants people to do good deeds. That is not parasitic behavior. It is organized religion. Most people wouldn't do good unless someone explained to them the need for it. But hey, let's try and live in a godless world where any random person can pick up a bible and interpret it as he pleases and then push his version on people. Not like Christian churches don't ask for donations right?

I think this is great. I have a lot of respect for religious organizations that drain their believers of their cash. It's kind of like saying "well we got the dummies to believe this garbage, now let's take their money as well!" right on!! It's why Scientology is my favorite religion.

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by apushforenlightment

 

I found your response kind of offensive man. It is your opinion, but you generalized allot and like I said, the church only wants people to do good deeds. That is not parasitic behavior. It is organized religion. Most people wouldn't do good unless someone explained to them the need for it. But hey, let's try and live in a godless world where any random person can pick up a bible and interpret it as he pleases and then push his version on people. Not like Christian churches don't ask for donations right?

edit on 1-5-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)

Yeep my post is full off duality and generalisation and it is offensive for a reason. Organized religon as the Chatolic religons practice it is the biggest misstake in history. They are just fundamentalists and most times very hateful to what they see as sin that we have no proof that it really is sin. I am not sure the priests that deliver the message from the bible understand Jesus at all because if they did then they would have all been awake/enlightened/saints.

But hey, let's try and live in a godless world where any random person can pick up a bible and interpret it as he pleases and then push his version on people.

Above is a perfect idea. If people was not taught what to think about the bible and they were told to seek the thruth within then they would probably find their way home instead of playing duality games of "my view of god is right and yours are wrong". By not knowing exactly what is right they would lose they ego and frankly examine themselves and their values (and the knowledge that they know to little might make them careful sometimes).

>
"Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you

Above is the only line in the bible needed to truely find god and get the bliss. It is about getting the connection to god and the start of your teaching. You can try to ask for things that are egoistic but I do not think you will get responsed to that.

Above are my views and might not be right. I will continue to question my smallminded mind until the day I die, because I am very aware that my mind do not know enought so sometimes I wing it. Have a funny ride if you want it.

can you buy your way to heaven w/ the root of all evil?

Love it!

reply to post by AntoniusBlock


You don't see it because you're a part of the brainwashed masses that believes everything you're told. I just showed you right there, its in front of your face and you still can't see it, that is how blind you are.

I no longer follow the christian faith.......
In regard to indulgences , the bible clearly states
"Call no man Father"....... God is the only father....
No one can stand in between God/Christ/Holy Spirit, and men.....
Nobody can forgive or absolve from sin but Christ/God ..and certainly no one but Christ may interceede between God and men.Not Mary, who is human, and not devine, and certainly not the saints....who are also human.
The Catholic faith is a mixture of Mystery school,Mithraism,Old world superstition,and a few other odds and ends that seem to benefit only the clergy, and the church.Peter was not even the subject of the sentence Jesus uttered that they use to base the whole organisation on......
If these are the "Last Days"(every generation has thought that )then truely Satan has TOTAL control of this world right now and up till the abomination ........then God will again take over(He never really relenquished control anyways...).....(after letting Satan have a go for the intervening years....)
When you think about it....It all reads like a giant soap opera fairy-tale.....mumbo umbo....
How do people convince themselves there is much credence to what the human worldly pervs say anyways......
Thems as cant do..............teach.
I still retain my belief in some kind of underlying over all intelligent design to this universe,(Holy Spirit) I carry the words of Christ
in regards to the way to live with my fellows,
I try to avoid detracting from any one with my wants ambitions and desires,and actions..... which are pretty modest.
I was born into Mormonism......but thats another kettle of fish...........
The Catholic Church, (like most others)was highjacked long ago.....by ambitious, and greedy men.......whos addiction to power has caused much of the grief in our entire history.

reply to post by AntoniusBlock


But Catholics still say the pope is the bridge between heaven and earth.

And there are mafia bosses buried in between the popes.

Catholics still call the pope "heavenly father".

See, you put focus on the one point that was wrong, not paying attention to the above three. Well I guess that suits your pro-Catholic agenda.

Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by AntoniusBlock

 

But Catholics still say the pope is the bridge between heaven and earth.

See, you put focus on the one point that was wrong, not paying attention to the above three. Well I guess that suits your pro-Catholic agenda.

Really? Do they? Can you point out where that is?

And why is it odd that someone would point out where you are wrong and not point out where you are right (if you are)? Wouldn't this just turn into a huge echo chamber if you posted to say you agree with something every time you are in accord with a post?

Eric

Originally posted by stirling
I no longer follow the christian faith.......
In regard to indulgences , the bible clearly states
"Call no man Father"....... God is the only father....

1) What does that have to do with indulgences?
2) That was clearly not intended as a blanket statement. If you'd like, I can point out instances in the Bible where people are referred to as fathers.

No one can stand in between God/Christ/Holy Spirit, and men.....
Nobody can forgive or absolve from sin but Christ/God ..and certainly no one but Christ may interceede between God and men.Not Mary, who is human, and not devine, and certainly not the saints....who are also human.

Do you pray for family and friends? How is that different than asking Mary or saints to pray for you?

Eric

reply to post by NOTurTypical


yeah but got better and I also think she weighs the same as a duck.