Where are the ATS military supporters?

Support the military? Kind of an odd question to answer. In my time, I've seen some military personnel that I thought were some of the greatest human beings I've ever had the pleasure to know. I've also seen some made me understand why their own troops would shoot them in the back, if given a chance. "Do you support the military?" is like asking "Do you support Congress?" Sure, there are some I support, some I don't.

I would submit that you will find more support for the troops on ATS than you will find in Congress. John McCain is a good example. He talks a lot about supporting the troops, but his voting record doesn't seem to reflect that support. He consistently votes against pay raises and benefits for the military. For many in Congress, supporting the troops means sending them to some god-forsaken stretch of desert while insuring that arms manufacturers make record profits.

I would suggest that as you embark on your military career, don't try to be a great soldier, try to be a decent human being. Don't let the military define who you are. Define yourself, and if the military cannot accept who you are, they don't deserve you. If the military is composed of good people, support will come naturally. In WWII, Germany and Japan had people who were good soldiers, but that didn't make them good human beings.

Well, let's see....There has been a member of my family serving in the military (either here or in Europe) since the French Revolution. My father served in the US Army during Korea as an immigrant trying to win naturalization. My brother did 8 years in the Navy.

My oldest daughter was active duty Air Force, now AF reserve. Her husband is active duty Army, flying blackhawk helicopters. My step-daughter and her husband are active duty Army. Between the three Army kids, they have done 8 tours of duty in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

To serve honorably is something I admire greatly. The military instills a sense of discipline and service to a higher ideal that most of our young people sorely need.

Having gotten that out of the way, I have to say that, currently, our government is using the military as an enforcement arm for multinational corporations to wet their beaks in places they have no business going in to. My step-daughter started having second thoughts after they "got rid" of Saddam Hussein. She figured they would go home after that, but it didn't happen, and she started to question all the lies they were fed in order to get the psychologically amped up to go over there and kick some ass.

I disagree vehemently with what the military is being used for. The ideals that the military stands for have been twisted and bastardized so that they are nothing more than an occupying force, killing innocent people and creating hatred and distress all over the world.

I used to watch WWII movies and wonder if the Nazis knew they were doing wrong, or if they were just following orders as all soldiers are expected to do, believing in their cause and doing what they were told to do.

Now I imagine in ten or twenty years, there will be movies about the middle east occupations, in which the US Army is shown the way the Nazis were....A bunch of duped, deluded and cruel people on the wrong side of history, who were only "following orders".

Bottom line: I support our military 100%, but the decisions of the shadow government to use them as pawns in a sick game of World Chess, I oppose wholeheartedly. The military is necessary, but these insane wars are not.

How many young people do we have to bury before we get a clue?

Contrary to some beliefs, we join the military to protect people's rights and freedoms from enemies that wish to take it away. But to think any of us can just say no while we are active or under a reserve contract is ludicrous. Before we get to the first General on a base, we would be arrested, thrown in the brig and dishonorably discharged. But to those that think the military just likes going around killing indiscriminately, nothing could be further from the truth. We also can't just go up to the President and arrest him for breaking his oath of office either.
Wars are started and finished by arm chair warriors. We do the fighting. You that aren't in the military see what you're allowed to see. For the lady that said we are going over killing innocent men women and children, have you also read the stories where our military is helping those same innocent people with building schools and infrastructure? Or how the medical aid we're giving is helping make their lives better, or how many people now have acces to clean water and teaching them how to sanitize their water? Yes, innocent people are dying. Yes we are killing some of them. Should we be over there? No, I don't think so. Not anymore.

To get back on point OP, former Marine for 14 1/2 years and current national guardsman of 2 1/2 years here. Military has great schools and yes it has it's perks. Nothing is given for free, it all comes at a cost. The question, is are you willing to pay the price?

There is a great book by a former Marine, Smedley Butler, War is a racket. I loved this book, and it started to make me put pieces together on why we go to war. It's always about money and resources. Who has them, and who wants them.

The military does stick together, we know our sacrifices and what it takes to answer the call of duty. The biggest portion of the population that needs us, is those that don't want us or like us. That's why we have those rights. It's also the biggest reason those need to be protected.

I support just wars fought by men and women defending there right to freedom, so until someone comes and puts boots on the ground in my country. I have nothing to defend thus no reason to fight.

Anyone who does one iota of research will find we have no reason other than to rape, pillage, and steal as well as keep the flow of drugs moving from the countries we are in now. There is no passing off of freedoms, I have no problem with you defending you way of life.

But do some serious thinking about where your going, why your there. And when you look down the barrel of your rifle, weather you should be.....

SaneThinking

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
Well, let's see....There has been a member of my family serving in the military (either here or in Europe) since the French Revolution. My father served in the US Army during Korea as an immigrant trying to win naturalization. My brother did 8 years in the Navy.

My oldest daughter was active duty Air Force, now AF reserve. Her husband is active duty Army, flying blackhawk helicopters. My step-daughter and her husband are active duty Army. Between the three Army kids, they have done 8 tours of duty in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

To serve honorably is something I admire greatly. The military instills a sense of discipline and service to a higher ideal that most of our young people sorely need.

Having gotten that out of the way, I have to say that, currently, our government is using the military as an enforcement arm for multinational corporations to wet their beaks in places they have no business going in to. My step-daughter started having second thoughts after they "got rid" of Saddam Hussein. She figured they would go home after that, but it didn't happen, and she started to question all the lies they were fed in order to get the psychologically amped up to go over there and kick some ass.

I disagree vehemently with what the military is being used for. The ideals that the military stands for have been twisted and bastardized so that they are nothing more than an occupying force, killing innocent people and creating hatred and distress all over the world.

I used to watch WWII movies and wonder if the Nazis knew they were doing wrong, or if they were just following orders as all soldiers are expected to do, believing in their cause and doing what they were told to do.

Now I imagine in ten or twenty years, there will be movies about the middle east occupations, in which the US Army is shown the way the Nazis were....A bunch of duped, deluded and cruel people on the wrong side of history, who were only "following orders".

Bottom line: I support our military 100%, but the decisions of the shadow government to use them as pawns in a sick game of World Chess, I oppose wholeheartedly. The military is necessary, but these insane wars are not.

How many young people do we have to bury before we get a clue?

Well said sir, well said.

reply to post by Juston


Touchy subject to be sure. That was the point of this thread. It seems the anti-crowd comes out in full force to voice their opinions very quickly, I referenced it in my OP, and sure enough it did happen here as well.

I wholeheartedly respect all of their opinions, whether or not they jive with mine.
But it does seem that sentiment is not always reciprocated.

I know that the military crowd is here, but as Cavscout stated earlier...they dont seem to shout as loud.

Originally posted by youdidntseeme
Many of those men had no choice to travel and fight as they were drafted, but the men and women now fighting overseas have all made the hard, hard decision to put their life n the line.

It is NOT a volunteer fighting force if the volunteering was based upon false and misleading information. Psyops warfare tactics have been used against the American populace, which should be illegal. But, then again, I highly doubt that the powers that be would announce to hundreds of millions of people simultaneously via main stream media that we were now under martial law.

Me? Prior United States Air Force, June 1998 to June 2009. Rescue Firefighter/EMT, with knowledge of a few other fields as well. 7 tours of duty to warzones. Medically retired after being too close to stuff that went boom a few too many times.

During my first tour to Iraq we managed to rig a satellite dish up so we could get some more channels on our tv at the fire station at a forward operating base, Tallil. We picked up CNN Europe and were watching it one day as they were broadcasting LIVE a battle for a town called Nasiriyah. They were showing footage with helicopters flying overhead, explosions, a city with multiple fires and smoke coming up, and journalists and troops battling and the like. We walked outside to a hill about 40 yards away and looked out over the river where we could see the whole town of Nasiriyah... and there wasn't anything going on. No explosions, no battle, no helicopters, no gunfire... nothing.

That is when I learned for absolute sure that the powers that be are running the media, and they are lying to us. This was in 2003, almost 10 years ago.


I'm the one on the right:

I stand behind our troops 100% now. During my 21 years of service I led from the front, but that's not an option for me now.

I think (just opinion) that 95% of people who post negative comments have never served. They seem to believe the news stories the want to accept and deny all the others. It is a sad state, but it is what we have.

I have served six tours in the middle east, and several others in worse places. I was under no illusions that we were defending any American's freedoms with our wars. It was never about that as far as I am concerned. I was a soldier to defend the helpless (regardless of thier country of origin). I would willing put my life down if it was to save a woman or a child. That is what a soldier is. Our very existance secures America's freedom, not our actions. Our actions are usually not so glorious as the defense of a nation, it usually boils down to making a difference "where the rubber meets the road".

Many of my new troops were chomping at the bit to get to war. It is not a game or something that you can really prepare for in advance. I always told them and I will tell you "the only people that want to go to war, are people that have never been". It is brutal, dirty, bloody, emotional, draining, and dehumanizing, but there are times when it must be entered into. When it is entered it must be done whole heartedly. Treat all people as you would want your family treated and you will serve with honor, no matter the situation.

I ramble on and for that I apologize. God speed to you and best of luck.

Originally posted by youdidntseeme
reply to post by Juston

 

I know that the military crowd is here, but as Cavscout stated earlier...they dont seem to shout as loud.

It's because we don't feel the need to sound loud and tough like some civilians tend to do, pretending they know everything about the military. I have seen it many times, where because some rogue incident involving a few Marines/soldiers happens, a civilian will automatically paint the entire military with their brush of ignorance.

But it's okay. Let them. We join to protect their rights, and one of those rights is free speech. Even if we may not agree with what they say, and know they are wrong and sound completely idiotic, they can talk all they want over the internet.

Like you said, most people in the real world are supportive of the military and their service. But for some strange reason, give people a computer and some anonymity and they're keyboard warrior geopolitical/military industrial complex/whatever else experts. I've learned to just laugh at them.

reply to post by youdidntseeme
The military crowd doesn't have to be loud, in order to be heard, little brother.

It's not the volume or quantity that matters.

It's the quality that counts.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by youdidntseeme

 

The military crowd doesn't have to be loud, in order to be heard, little brother.

It's not the volume or quantity that matters.

It's the quality that counts.

If you think you don't need to be loud, or speak openly to be heard.. then why are you still talking?


----
Also, naive assumption to suggest someone that is "openly against the military or war" is or always has been a civilian. You'll find many walks of life on ATS, and you'll be surprised to know many "anti-war" folks were once military; 'doing the time, then doing the whine' is actually common here.

Another zinger I see thrown about a lot is, "civilians just don't understand" whenever divisive arguments are present. Profoundly ignorant. You could be talking to a retired high-ranking officer or a grizzled non-com when you say that, this is the internet after all.

Take it all in stride. People seem to miss the "unwritten contract" on ATS that most people abide by, in that: no one really cares about your credentials or your ego, just your opinions. It's not "red team versus blue team" in here, it's just opinions. Though everyone loses their way at some point...

reply to post by SyphonX


Anti-war and anti-military are two different birds.

I'm IN and I'm anti-war!!!

Who in the frack likes it???

reply to post by beezzer


True, but I just used the term to reference the subject. Since it's usually "war threads" that get all the commotion the OP is talking about.

Don't all tax payers support the troops? We are forced to or we go to jail for tax evasion. Support is a broad term. I support, like child support in failed marriage with a mentally challenged kid, missing limbs, living in luxury while I have no income. Hats off for defending our borders against those invaders but time to scale back. We love ya but you cost too damm much. Your bosses are out of control. We need civilian jobs ready for you, you are first in line by law. Come on home. Your family misses you. Time to shut it down. We will be safe.

I support you. 16 years TIS. And still going. Learn from your mistakes. Humble yourself. Train train train. Be a leader. You have support everywhere. A lot of people wont like what you do. Some will join you in what you do. And some will benefit from what you do. No matter your job, be the expert at it.

Some wars i agree with, some i dont.

Training must happen at all times. Soldiers must be present to do this.

An ill prepared army is a defeated army.

History has shown this to be true.

Ehhh hemmm. If you dont want armies stop the wars and conflicts. To stop that you need to get rid of man. I feel that attempt is coming in the near future.

Hahahahaha huggs and kisses will not protect you. Neither will being solo. Together we will stand and fight. Lol some will not last very long. And some will look to us for protection. Some of them will be the very same anti military people one here.

I bet they wont be so mouthy then.

Nothing follows.

reply to post by youdidntseeme


my 2 cents for what it's worth....

I don't agree with fighting wars with soliders....this day in age we are all so sophisticated we can throw in a few spies, computer geeks w/ a strong sense and the abilities to take down the opposition with a few clicks on the mouse pad. and bam, we take em down w/o a big wrinkle in our own pockets...

Growing up I did not want to enlist in any military but I did want t protect the assets that others have died for....so my semi intelligent brain cells always fired upon themselves thinking we should look at how we go about things, maybe we think about how someone creates the knot and distract them from creating that knot before they can even grab the string and craft the knot...

It would give us more strength and with a lot less casualties

now if that job is available, sign me up! I'd be the first in line **The best solider is the one that keeps his mouth shut and is invisible - the more you know the more dangerous you become! Then it comes it down to whoever has more of those people on your side wins the game of life!

reply to post by stinger94

we join the military to protect people's rights and freedoms from enemies that wish to take it away.

Which enemies? Name at least five.


Why do these supposed enemies want to take away your rights and freedoms away?


To the OP, I'm not going to make a judgement on you for joining the military. That's your choice and I don't know your life story or your reason for that decision.

I imagine your ideas may change once you've actually served.

Originally posted by ILikeStars

Originally posted by youdidntseeme
Many of those men had no choice to travel and fight as they were drafted, but the men and women now fighting overseas have all made the hard, hard decision to put their life n the line.

It is NOT a volunteer fighting force if the volunteering was based upon false and misleading information. Psyops warfare tactics have been used against the American populace, which should be illegal. But, then again, I highly doubt that the powers that be would announce to hundreds of millions of people simultaneously via main stream media that we were now under martial law.

Me? Prior United States Air Force, June 1998 to June 2009. Rescue Firefighter/EMT, with knowledge of a few other fields as well. 7 tours of duty to warzones. Medically retired after being too close to stuff that went boom a few too many times.

During my first tour to Iraq we managed to rig a satellite dish up so we could get some more channels on our tv at the fire station at a forward operating base, Tallil. We picked up CNN Europe and were watching it one day as they were broadcasting LIVE a battle for a town called Nasiriyah. They were showing footage with helicopters flying overhead, explosions, a city with multiple fires and smoke coming up, and journalists and troops battling and the like. We walked outside to a hill about 40 yards away and looked out over the river where we could see the whole town of Nasiriyah... and there wasn't anything going on. No explosions, no battle, no helicopters, no gunfire... nothing.

That is when I learned for absolute sure that the powers that be are running the media, and they are lying to us. This was in 2003, almost 10 years ago.


I'm the one on the right:

That is one amazing story. Maybe the media had the name of the town wrong? I know that sounds stupid, but did you investigate? The guys I know that went over there did it because they needed a job, and it looked like a good one. Mass hypnosis could explain the rampant nationalism here in the good ol USA.

I guess i'd class myself as a military supporter. I support having an effective military since its needed.

The law of the jungle is alive and well on earth and probably the cosmos at large. Since its needed and often requires sacrifice in the extreme I respect the people who choose to do it.

That said, the people (politicians) who we choose to wield the power of our military are for the most part buffoons and sometimes outright criminals.

The trick is to remember who's the tool and who's the wielder. Apportion blame accordingly. All wars are political first. Some forget that I think.

Not a hawk, not a dove, support our troops but not unjust wars.

You know, if we had gone into Iraq when Saddam was genociding Kurds (poisoning villages); that would have been a whole different war than the war for oil.