The Slander of Mary Magdelene

although heaven;s closed
..............take the rainbow



h3... thanx fer da listenin'

On a side note, a year or so ago, I was reading to my son The Wizard of Oz. I had seen the film many times, but never read the book itself. And from an esoteric point of view it was the treasure trove I had been led to expect, however, immediately I was shocked. The slippers, the famously red slippers, were in the book not red at all. They were silver. Silver of course denotes the moonlight, the power of the dreamscape and escape into other realities, and is of course entirely in keeping with the themes of the book. It also is, symbolically a pure element, though not as incorruptible as gold. So why transform those silver slippers to red. One could argue that, given the nature of the film and the splendid inauguration of Technicolor that it represented, taking reality as being monochrome and the fantasy or dreamworld as being colour, that red was more, dramatic. But could the explanation really be that innocent? Did the producers really not understand that they were transforming moon goddess into a ‘lady of the night’?

They of course didn’t stop there in the dissection and reassembly of Dorothy. L Frank Baum created an inquisitive and fearless heroine, that held together and provided motivation and support to the other characters. In the film she was weakened and wussified, lacking the determination and the nounce of her literary counterpart. Hollywood transformed Dorothy from strong to weak, and from saint to sinner. Perhaps, in much the same way as the middleages transformed Mary Magdalene from apostle to harlot, and in much the same way, by adding a red tint.

Almost since civilisation began red has been associated with prostitution. In Roman times, a brothel was easily identified by the placement of an erect phallus, painted red, over the entrance to a building. However, red in most other cultures, has very positive aspects.

Red is used as a symbol of guilt, sin, passion, and anger, often as connected with blood or sex.[32] A biblical example is found in Isaiah: "Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow."[33] Also, The Scarlet Letter, an 1850 American novel by Nathaniel Hawthorne, features a woman in a Puritan New England community who is punished for adultery with ostracism, her sin represented by a red letter 'A' sewn onto her clothes.[34] This all comes from a general Hebrew view inherited by Christianity which associates red with the blood of murder,[35] as well as with guilt in general. Often, objects meant to scare will be red.[36] Another popular example is the phrase "caught red-handed", meaning either caught in an act of crime or caught with the blood of murder still on one's hands.[37] At one one point, red became associated with prostitutes and brothels (red-light districts).[38][39] In Roman Catholicism, red represents wrath, one of the Seven Deadly Sins. In Christianity, Satan is usually depicted as colored red and/or wearing a red costume in both iconography and popular culture.[40] Statistics have shown that red cars are more likely to be involved in accidents.[41]

The color red is associated with lust, passion, love, beauty, and danger. The association with love and beauty is possibly related to the use of red roses as a love symbol.[42] Both the Greeks and the Hebrews considered red a symbol of love as well as sacrifice.[43] Psychological research has shown that men find women who are wearing red more attractive.[44]

en.wikipedia.org...

Is red more attractive? Or are women who wear red just seemingly more available?

reply to post by Biliverdin


Yuh-huh.

www.sciencedaily.com...

Red flag to the bull. Or the gibbon, as the case may be.

reply to post by Eidolon23


Sorry I wasn't clear, the link I posted already referred to the psychological study that you linked to, what I was asking, or trying to, is whether red is more attractive to men, or whether it is more attractive because of it's cultural association with prostitution, sin, and therefore sexual availability.

It is believed that red was the first colour, that as humans, we were able to percieve, and it is also the first colour that new borns are able to differentiate (in those without colour blindness perhaps), and of course in vitro, the fetuses world is very red due to the way in which light is filtered through the taut abdominal wall. My son when he was born loved staring at my red living room walls, and was instantly comforted when I wore red, so there are clearly a number of factors at play. And given the ancients obsession with blood rites and sacrifice, that there was clearly a perception of red as being representative of life force, we even painted the dead, copiously, with red ochre in early death rites.

So what I was wanting to consider, is whether in modernity we have bastardised this perception of red as life affirming, as it still is seen in Asian cultures, by turning it over to being representative of licentiousness and sex for sale. And was the slander of Mary Magdelene, and of the feminine in general all a part of that conspiracy to make sexuality and it's expression into something taboo?

Another interesting side note, flashing red lights are disorientating to the perceptions and slow down reaction time...hence their use as a 'stop' indicator...green is supposed to be calming and red exciting, but all indicators actually point to the opposite...green keeps us alert and focused...red reminds us of the womb and our mother's blood prumping around us...something odd seems to be going on. Or perhaps that's just me

something I found interesting.

Everything I am posting now is quoted from Wiki and other sources. I have not listed them in order since I have only the notes I took and am not able to credit the work the the apropiate authors. I appologize for this to readers and them.


WHORE OF BABYLON
Her full title is given as "Babylon the Great, the Mother of HARLOTS and Abominations of the Earth
Βαβυλὼν ἡ μεγάλη, ἡ μήτηρ τῶν πορνῶν καὶ τῶν βδελυγμάτων τῆς γῆς;
transliterated Babylōn ē Megalē, ē mētēr tōn pornōn kai tōn bdelygmatōn tēs Gēs.)

Mary Magdalene's given name Μαρία (Maria) is usually regarded as a Latin form of Μαριὰμ (Mariam), which is the Greek variant used in Septuagint for Miriam, the Hebrew name for Moses' sister. The name had become very popular during Jesus' time due to its connections to the ruling Hasmonean and Herodian dynasties.

Luke 8:2 says that she was actually "called Magdalene." In Hebrew מגדל Migdal means "tower", "fortress"; in Aramaic, "Magdala" means "tower" or "elevated, great, magnificent".

Mary Magdalene appears with more frequency than other women in the canonical Gospels and is shown as being a close follower of Jesus. Mary's presence at the Crucifixion and Jesus' tomb, has been theorised as at least consistent with the role of grieving wife and widow. It has also been theorised that certain passages indicate that Mary of Bethany was behaving as a Jewish wife, for example in waiting to be summoned when Jesus arrived at Lazarus’ tomb.This would be resolved if Mary Magdalene and Mary of Bethany were one and the same character

Mark 15:40, Matthew 27:56 and John 19:25 mention Mary Magdalene as a witness to crucifixion, along with various other women. Luke does not name any witnesses, but mentions "women who had followed him from Galilee" standing at a distance.[Lk. 23:49] In listing witnesses who saw where Jesus was buried by Joseph of Aramathea, Mark 15:47 and Matthew 27:61 both name only two people: Mary Magdalene and "the other Mary", who in Mark is "the mother of James".

Luke 23:55 describes the witnesses merely as "the women who had come with Jesus from Galilee". John 19:39-42 mentions no other witness to Joseph's burial of Jesus except for Joseph's assistant Nicodemus. However, John 20:1 then names Mary Magdalene in describing who discovered the tomb to be empty. Mark 16:1 says she was accompanied by Salome and Mary the mother of James, while Matthew 28:1 omits Salome. Luke 24:10 says the group who found the empty tomb consisted of "Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them".

The Gospel of John[11:1-45] [12:1-8] and the Gospel of Luke[10:38-42] also mention a "Mary of Bethany", who in some Christian traditions is regarded the same person as Mary Magdalene. Mary of Bethany was the sister of Lazarus and Martha. Mary and Martha are among the most familiar sets of sisters in the Bible. Both Luke and John describe them as friends of Jesus.

Luke's story, though only four verses long, has been a complex source of inspiration, interpretation, and debate for centuries. John's account, which says the sisters had a brother named Lazarus, spans seventy verses. Though some earlier interpreters blended the person of Mary of Bethany with Mary Magdalene and the sinful woman of Luke 7:36-50,

Among the women who are specifically named in the New Testament of the Bible, Mary Magdalene’s name is one of the most frequently found. In Matthew 27:56, the author names three women in sequence: “Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.” In the Gospel of Mark, the author lists a group of women three times, and each time, Mary Magdalene’s name appears first. Finally, in the Gospel of Luke, the author enumerates the women who went to the tomb of Jesus, writing that, “It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them,” which once again places Mary Magdalene at the head of the list.

According to Carla Ricci, “The place she [Mary Magdalene] occupied in the list cannot be considered fortuitous,” because over and over Mary Magdalene’s name is placed at the head of specifically named women, indicating her importance. The significance of this is further strengthened when one examines the lists of the named apostles. In Luke, the author writes that Jesus “took Peter, John and James.” According to Ricci, because Peter occupies the first position in the list, that place can be considered the position of highest importance. As a result, it can be argued that Mary Magdalene must have held a very central position among the followers of Jesus, whether as disciple or in some other capacity.

It was because of this association of Mary as a prostitute that she became the patroness of "wayward women", and "Magdalene houses" became established to help save women from prostitution.

Peter said to Mary, "Sister we know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of woman. Tell us the words of the Savior which you remember which you know, but we do not, nor have we heard them." Mary answered and said, "What is hidden from you I will proclaim to you."

EDIT: more

And the companion of the savior was Mary Magdalene. Christ loved Mary more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her mouth. The rest of the disciples were offended by it and expressed disapproval. They said to him, "Why do you love her more than all of us?" The Savior answered and said to them, "Why do I not love you like her?"

Bart D. Ehrman referred to a work by an early anonymous Christian writer (perhaps Hippolytus, a Christian leader in Rome around 200 AD) who in a commentary on the Old Testament book Song of Songs, wrote that Jesus first appeared to the women at the tomb. He instructed them to go and tell his disciples that he was risen from the dead. Then he appeared to his disciples and "upbraided them for not believing the women's report," referring to the women as apostles.

The Goddess in Jerusalem

Herod Antipas became ruler of the land through the ancient "Sacred Marriage" with the High Queen Mariamne, a priestess of the Triple Goddess Mari-Anna-Ishtar who was popularly worshiped at the time of Christ. This Goddess was noted for her triple-towered temple or "magdala." It is important to note that much of the imagery in the Gospels, especially regarding the Marys, corresponds to the worship of this Goddess Mari-Anna-Ishtar.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by BIHOTZ


From the same source...this I found very interesting...

"Magdala" means "tower" or "elevated, great, magnificent".[6]

In the Epic of Gilgamesh, Shamhat, the Sacred Harlot, is referred to by Gilgamesh as 'Magnificent'...and I do wonder if there is a connection. BUT, there is a vast difference between prostitution, as a matter of commerce, and sacred harlotry... The implication, and direct accusation made against Mary Magdalene by Pope Gregory was that she was a 'sinner'. So either he was reducing the form of sacred harlotry to being sinful, or he was claiming that Mary was selling sex in exchange for money. And, if one looks at Rome, and later, at the town system in the Middle Ages Europe, where prostitution as commerce was often sanctioned and supported by both the church and town councils, I wonder if it is the former. Mary Magdelene, if she was at one time a sacred whore, was sinful not because she sold sex, but because she gave it freely.

actually the temples of Ishtar offered sexual "healing". It was not looked at in the context we do now. The old world had priestess "prostitutes", in so much as they offered sex. The commerce was dedicated to the temple.
It was not a bad thing.

more from that thread

The Goddess in Jerusalem

Herod Antipas became ruler of the land through the ancient "Sacred Marriage" with the High Queen Mariamne, a priestess of the Triple Goddess Mari-Anna-Ishtar who was popularly worshiped at the time of Christ. This Goddess was noted for her triple-towered temple or "magdala." It is important to note that much of the imagery in the Gospels, especially regarding the Marys, corresponds to the worship of this Goddess Mari-Anna-Ishtar.

the title of Virgin was often bestowed upon sexually active Goddesses. Sacred Temple Prostitutes were often called Virgins . In addition, children of The Sacred Marriage, a ritual union of a temple priestess and a king willing to die for his people, were often called "virgin born" or "divine children," just as Christ was.It is possible that Mother Mary was dedicated to a Goddess temple when she was a child. Perhaps Mother Mary was a temple priestess, thus making Jesus (or Yeshua) a divine child. There is even stronger evidence that Mary Magdalen was a temple priestess, so perhaps this is the true connection between Mother Mary and Mary Magdalen.

Ishtar -Woman deified throughout multiple cultures under multiple derivatives of her name. Human wife of the watcher Shemyhaza, to whom it is said he revealed how to use the name of YHWH in ritual magic. She appears throughout ancient and modern culture as “the Queen of Heaven”, the mother goddess, the earth goddess, the Madonna. Often portrayed as a mermaid in connection with her status as chief of sirens. She is the personified “whore of Babylon” spoken in Revelation. Hebrew” Ishah+taher “pure woman”.

siren -A spirit of a human female who was joined to a heavenly being in marital union during her mortal life. Capable of possession of living human beings and associated with bodies of water, they are known for specifically targeting men through lust and destroying them.

Yahushua -Proper Hebrew name of Messiah, literally meaning : “the salvation of YAH”.

Four pieces of Gospel evidence strongly point to Mary Magdalen as a temple priestess of the Goddess. The first is her title "Magdalen," almost identical to "Magdala," noted earlier to be the name of the triple-towered temple of the Goddess Mari-Anna-Ishtar (D). Literally, "Mary of the Magdala" signifies "Mary of the Goddess Temple." Christian tradition has said that Mary is of the town "Magdala" or "Migdal," which was known as "The Village of Doves," a place where sacred doves were bred for the Goddess temple (F). In either case, two threads of strong symbolism link the name Magdalen to contemporary Goddess worship.

Mary is known as a prostitute, just as the Goddess priestesses were titled "Sacred Prostitutes," although a more recent and accurate translation titles them "Sacred Women" or "hierodulae".Such prostitutes were considered evil by Jewish leaders of the time. That Jesus/Yeshua would associate with such a woman would indeed invoke the scorn of his disciples, as is recorded in the New Testament.

Thirdly, Mary Magdalen is identified in Mark and Luke as the woman who was possessed by seven demons, which Yeshua cast out of her. The seven demons were a symbolic part of a temple ritual known as "The Descent of Inanna," one of the most ancient ceremonies known, recorded in the Epic of Gilgamesh. This ritual was known to be practiced in the Jerusalem temple of Mari-Anna-Ishtar.

The last, and perhaps strongest, piece of evidence is the anointing of Yeshua with the sacred oil, an event which was recorded in all four New Testament Gospels, pointing to its significance. The anointing of the Jesus' head with oil (as described in Mark 14:3-4) is an unmistakable symbol of The Sacred Marriage, a ceremony performed by temple priestesses.

Many scholars have documented the fact that Jesus was supported by political zealots who wished to overthrow the Romans and put a Son of David on the throne in Jerusalem. In fact, it is much more likely that Jesus was crucified, not for blasphemy which was no offense to the Romans, but for sedition. Crucification was the common punishment for insurrectionists, hence the title over his cross, "Jesus Christ, King of the Jews"

If indeed a strong faction of zealots wished to see Yeshua on the throne, he certainly would have been married to a suitable bride. It has been suggested that the Wedding of Canna, where Jesus turned the water into wine, was actually the symbolic story of his own marriage to Mary of Bethany. "Cana" is the root for "zealot," and the water into wine may represent the new covenant for the people of Jerusalem.

Some believe that Yeshua himself took part in the Sacred Marriage with Mary Magdalen, as the anointing foretold. The Sacred Marriage was a ceremony to renew the land, at times was followed by the death of the redeemer/king who was called upon to sacrifice his blood for the people."Mari-Ishtar anointed or christened her doomed god when he went into the underworld, whence he would rise again at her bidding. That is, she made him a Christ. Her priestess raised the lament for him when he died. In the Epic of Gilgamesh, victims were told She 'who anointed you with fragrant oil laments for you now' "

Anointing the head with oil had Biblical precedent in announcing kingship and was well known to be symbolic of the Sacred Marriage ceremony. When Mary anointed Yeshua's head with sacred oil, he foretold his own death: "She has come beforehand to anoint my body for burial. What this woman has done will be told as a memorial to her" (Mark 14:8-9). Immediately afterwards, Judas Iscariot, whose name means "zealot" went out to betray him, for he understood that Jesus was going to sacrifice his life, not rule as king.

To me, it seems as though Jesus intended to make Mary Magdalene the head of the church and not peter. He wanted her to reign as a priestess. The disciples expected him to rule as king, not become a sacrifice as the old world religions commanded. The Jewish faith looked down on those other religions and was in a state of cleansing of them. Remember the removing of the idols from the great temple in Jerusalem.

The disciples probably begrudgingly followed his commandments, but later made it so that she was given a lesser role. Later church fathers followed the inclination for other reasons until she was all but removed from prominence. It makes you wonder.

There is also another side to all this. The heraldic blood lines. There is a theory that Jesus was the son of Herod, hence why he wanted to kill all the infants of the land when Jesus was a babe. He feared sedition by him and Jesus taking his rightful throne as king of the Jews.

reply to post by BIHOTZ


These women were often highly prized later as wives once their service to the goddess had been completed, virgin, at that time, only meant unmarried, it didn't carry to moral undertones that it does today, again a process that began during the Middle Ages, and the actions of the Roman Church to assume control in the vaccum left by the Roman Empire. They by all accounts were not just sexual healers, but also preparers of the death, which would explain Mary's presence at Jesus's tomb, as well as healers and midwives. They were usually educated and learned in numerous ways. Another factor which would have incurred the wrath of the totalitarianism of the Roman Church, just as it did in martial Greece and Rome. Educating women was a waste since their only function was to produce off-spring to restock the barracks.

l. The fake ‘midrashic’ (i.e. haggadic = legendary) 14-set genealogy of ‘Iesous’ in the 1st canonical Greek gospel ‘according to Matthew’ (whoever he was) skips over a number of Judean kings (who reigned between c. 680 BCE and 621 BCE) in order to keep his fake sets of 14 going (D-V-D = i.e. 4 + 6 + 4 = the geometrical number for the Messiah based on the ‘number’ for the name ‘David’) –

Yet ‘Matthew’ adds FIVE whorish (sexually compromised) women to the set (odd for a genealogy for the Messiah) including Rachab the Harlot, Tamar (raped by her brother Yehudah), Ruth (who threw herself sexually at her late husband’s cousin Boaz, then lived (possibly as a lesbian?) with Naomi her mother in law) , then there’s the promiscuous Jebusite princess Bath-Shebiti (‘Bath-sheba’ lit. ‘daughter of the 7’ i.e. gods) who married to Uriah the Hittite commited Adultery with ‘David’ to produce the (illegitimate) clan chieftan Jedediah (i.e. ‘Sholomon’, lit. ‘peaceful’) – then Miryam of Galilee, the 5th in a long line of whores

this post is very interesting as well. The need for Jesus to be of the line of David so as to lay claim to the throne. It is interesting that Mathew added what the church would consider "whores" so as to validate the prophecy and lineage of Jesus.

reply to post by BIHOTZ


I have long suspected that the 'House of Chloe' (Chloe being another designation of Demetre/Persephone) referred to in the Epistle to the Corinthians was such an establishment too, and Paul clearly was taking direction from them in administering to the people. Paul himself had a female student, Saint Thecla, and many female supporters.

reply to post by Biliverdin


yes, virgin also meant maiden worthy of marriage (age wise). Not necessarily "virgin", exactly.

here is an example of mistranslation and outright omission of the bible form that same thread.

[Genesis 24:43] Behold,stand by the well of water; and it shall come to pass, that when the virgin cometh forth to draw [water], and I say to her, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of thy pitcher to drink;

"Behold,¹ I¹ standªº [here] by¹ the wellª of water;ª and the daughtersª of the men²¹ of the cityª come outªº to drawªº water:ª ... And let it come to pass,¹ that the damselª to whom¹ I shall say,ªº¹ Let downªº thy pitcher,ª I pray thee,¹ that I may drink;ªº and she shall say,ªº Drink,ªº and I will give²º thy camelsª drinkªº also:¹ [let the same be] she [that] thou hast appointedªº for thy servantª Isaac;ª and thereby shall I knowªº that¹ thou hast shewedªº kindnessª unto¹ my master.ª" [Gen 24:13-14]

Originally posted by Biliverdin
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

Sorry I wasn't clear, the link I posted already referred to the psychological study that you linked to, what I was asking, or trying to, is whether red is more attractive to men, or whether it is more attractive because of it's cultural association with prostitution, sin, and therefore sexual availability.

Mm. The marketing guys are probably way ahead of us here (and never inclined to share). But it has yet to be determined whether red is a hardwired "start your engines, gentlemen" trigger, or an acculturated taste. It's likely a combination of the two, one reinforcing the other.

So what I was wanting to consider, is whether in modernity we have bastardised this perception of red as life affirming, as it still is seen in Asian cultures, by turning it over to being representative of licentiousness and sex for sale.

It would be helpful to pinpoint when red became associated with prostitution in Western culture. The earliest I saw it cropping up was in Victorian London.

And was the slander of Mary Magdelene, and of the feminine in general all a part of that conspiracy to make sexuality and it's expression into something taboo?

Yeah, probably. You have to figure April 31st had a lot to do with the early stages in that process. All that Beltane free love madness was one of the first things to prompt a crackdown on the supply end of sex (not much even the Church can do about stemming demand). They cornered the market; determining how, why, when and with whom a woman is permitted to use her generative organs. What started with, "No more holiday orgies!" snowballed into things like giving Mary Magdalene the smear job.

Upshot: divert all sexual energies into providing the next generation of tithers, and let the unsatisfied excess go toward fueling the war imperative.

Dig your seasonally appropriate avatar. Happy May Day!

Gregory the Great....
Can't have all those bloody women running around thinking they are still important. The pagan peasants may listen to our stories but they'll only use that bloody Magdelene woman to reinforce their own belief, best make her out to be a whore.
*Cue much ripping up of pages*
If the British women get wind of this they'll have our Missionaries guts for garters, better tell the men folk all women are evil and the woes of the world are their fault, yes that'll keep them in line some. *taps nose, winks, elbow nudge*

I was trying to track down a story about Quan Yin I originally read in a book which I unfortunately no longer have. Recounting the story from memory, therefore.

A young girl, an itinerant housemaid (and sometime prostitute), arrived in a village and plied both her trades for several weeks. She was discovered in her clandestine activities by the village women in the following manner: any man who visited this girl was liberated thereafter from sexual desire.

When it became apparent to the women that every one of their husbands was exhibiting a frustrating lack of interest, they started asking questions. When the girl's activities were revealed, the village women beat her to death and buried her in a shallow grave.

Three yeas later, a monk passed through the village. He gathered the villagers together, and told them, "You have killed an incarnation of Quan Yin."

He led them to the grave, and bade them dig up the remains. The bones were found to be made of gold.

While looking for that story, I found this:

In the third phase (Song Dynasty, 9th-11th c.) she adopts many more Chinese characteristics. She a has a form that appears in this period that forms perhaps earlier and to the west of Henan in the Shaanxi district. She is depicted with a fish basket and dressed as a fishmonger and prostitute. She conducts secular business with men and uses her power of sex as a didactic tool to teach people about virtue and to free them from lust. In the end she remains pure and a virgin. This is remarkably similar to the fused legends of Mary Magdalen (the prostitute) and the Virgin Mary stories especially valued by Asian Christians (Nestorians) who came across the Silk Road out of Central Asia. There are other stories of Mary of Qidun and Mary of Egypt who were Holy Prostitutes who appear in the Asian Christian calendars that certainly were brought to China.

daleinchina.wordpress.com...

So that's pretty nifty.

Originally posted by Eidolon23
Dig your seasonally appropriate avatar.

Happy May Day!

I could pretend that I'm really cool and yeah, that was just what I meant by it, but I am in fact clue-less, haha...not one for day keeping, the only reason I know the date at all is that I had to write a cheque earlier, and looked it up. Had no idea I was being even vaguely relevent.

Avatar selected for reasons altogether different, just a happy coincidence I suppose. Ta very much anyway

reply to post by Eidolon23


That is quite nifty...and the fishmonger aspect is too. Always loved the acrostic Ichthys...can't help but feel that there is something about that here too...fishing for men...although we shouldn't get that confused with the Children of God lot and their version of 'flirty fishing'....or perhaps we should...

reply to post by Eidolon23


well,
red was the color of royalty in ancient times,

in Jericho, Rahab, the scarlet whore helped the Jews to conquer the city. She was in a tower.....she was draped in velvet,

She was probably part of the royal family and a priestess of Ishtar. She had the kings ear, not the sort of audience a common whore would have. Rahab was allowed to live because she helped them.

Joshua 2 NIV

1 Then Joshua son of Nun secretly sent two spies from #tim. "Go, look over the land," he said, "especially Jericho." So they went and entered the house of a prostitute named Rahab and stayed there.


This oath you made us swearwill not be binding on us unless, when we enter the land, you have tied this scarlet cord in the window through which you let us down, and unless you have brought your father and mother, your brothers and all your family into your house. If anyone goes outside your house into the street, his blood will be on his own head; we will not be responsible. As for anyone who is in the house with you, his blood will be on our head if a hand is laid on him. But if you tell what we are doing, we will be released from the oath you made us swear."

21 "Agreed," she replied. "Let it be as you say." So she sent them away and they departed. And she tied the scarlet cord in the window.

reply to post by Biliverdin

Interesting thread Biliverdin.

Your in all probability no doubt right, and its funny how history is twisted and turned on its head, in the end I think it was just all a complicated process to get us all to stop going around like bonobo monkeys and doing that whole monkey business, as it leads to many complications. It was true back then, and it is true now. Words sometimes are like fancy drapes we hang to cover windows and to hide the stains on the walls.

And I think the problem with this issue is.... Well! Its all written on the wall, hidden behind the fancy drapes. Usually that is the case, but in this case I got to say it's hidden behind the raggedy nondescript drapes.

Is the whole thing against Mary Magdalene true? In all probably were all playing telephone and gossiping on things we have very little clues about. And even those clues we have are just interpretation of interpretations of something somebody once said or once heard. But you don't have to be a genius to see what is going on, and its more akin to a power struggle then anything having to do with Jesus message, or God's message.

If anything its like you said the whole thing is like a huge PR smear campaign against the true histories and even against women, and even some ways against even nature itself. Only it's reaching back ages and going on throughout the ages in many forms, and in some ways it is just an aspect of the battle and sexes, of which slights and slings draw wounds that fester throughout the ages. And again like monkeys, and as apposed to literal monkeys, we throw our literary feces at each other smearing the truth with them.

And what relation had this Mary Magdalene to this Jesus? We can but guess now, or better yet we can also deduct some of what may have been going on. But for all we know she could have been his wife, or just a traveling priestess who came to learn and teach. To even as they teach and say of her that she was a prostitute. To many other things that we can only assume or deduce depending on how good we think our translations of things from back then were and are, and seeing as many of those translations are little more then what amounts to playing telephone.

Well we can also deduce that we may never quite get the one true answer and the one clear view of this story. But that does not mean we should not try.

And given that words and meanings change throughout time, the whole thing could of been lost in translation, in fact its just a question of how much of it got lost in translation, not if it got lost in translation. And for all we know It could even be said that she could of just been Jesus best friend who played cards with him every Sunday, or whatever it is they did back then to relax, and that's all it could have been as far as we know. But if anything it could be that she was a bit of all the above.

But I get your drift and this conspiracy or bad interpretations or just plain misinterpretations has very little to do with the actual person or the actual flesh and blood woman, or even the women of those times and more to do with the whole female gender aspect in general, and its turnabout and twist about. Because it has been used and is being used to generalize the whole of female kind and of history, and as we know generalizations are often wrong.

reply to post by Eidolon23


Or it could be that we just attribute to much power to any one color. The color red has meant different things to different people throughout the ages. To some in India I have heard it meant Simplicity, Purity, to other across the world it means, blood, and fire. To others it represents beauty and love. To some in china its supposed to be luck, and good fortune. To even back in Sparta it could of just been used as the color that best hid blood stains of battle.

The Color Red

I am probably not the dude to ask E23, but a woman in a red dress is a woman in a red dress, and a woman in a blue dress is a woman in a blue dress to me. I do not think it has all that much of a influence on me, nor do I think it does on other dudes but we all just play along and nod our heads. If anything the only powers they have is the ones we assign to them, and there might be a more primal thing, seeing as it is one of the colors that has been with us throughout the ages and in certain heated situations.

Like Biliverdin said in birth it is the color we see, and it is also the color we see when we get cut ourselves and bleed so I can see how it represents both birth and danger on a primal level as even animals respond to it. For instance hungry animals go in for the kill when they see red, and bulls are known to charge in blindly if there in a rut and see a little dude in a leotard with a red cape.

But I can see how it can mean even love and good luck and many other things depending on the people and the situation.

But I don't think it has any one concrete meaning. In fact now a days when I think of red the only thing that comes to my mind is that if you own a red car you have to pay more in insurgence, then if you have any other color car.

I don't know why it could be that they drive through to many fields full of bulls or something. but I am sure the insurance companies have there and reasons why complete with statistics done by them that proves them right. Basically E23 the powers we assign or associate to the colors are the powers they have. So ya your right and wrong.

But given the provability of such things and the fact that it has been going on for so long that we attribute any one thing to any one color, red being one of the main colors around. I think your more right then wrong. But still it's generalization albeit it may be a majority generalization, and by majority your link seems to be right in its conclusion.