The Slander of Mary Magdelene

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posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 02:43 PM
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On the 14 September 591 Pope Gregory the Great delivered a homily on the Gospel of Luke in which he argued that the sinful woman, who while dining at Simon’s house washes Jesus’s feet with her tears, was in fact Mary Magdalene. With this commentary, Pope Gregory changed the perception of Mary and she was relegated from most ‘dearly beloved’ of all Jesus’s disciplines to the station of a common whore.


"We believe that this woman [Mary Magdalen] is Luke's female sinner, the woman John calls Mary, and that Mary from whom Mark says seven demons were cast out."
("Hanc vero quam Lucas peccatricem mulierem, Joannes Mariam nominat, illam esse Mariam credimus de qua Marcus septem dæmonia ejecta fuisse testatur")

witcombe.sbc.edu...

In the 3rd April 1969 edition of the Roman Missal, published under Pope Paul VI, the Vatican rectified Pope Gregory’s slander of Mary Magdalene, and clarified the distinction between her and the sinful woman, whom they now identified as Mary of Bethany. And yet, the church itself, and the catholic Christian churches in general, as well general and popular opinion still teaches, and holds the belief that Mary Magdalene was a whore.

What is interesting about this redaction, is that while clarifying that Pope Gregory the Great was incorrect, they fail to comment on why and how he was incorrect. His reasoning goes unquestioned. The error itself is corrected, without giving understanding to the circumstances that lead to that error. Nor was this retraction circulation ecumenically, so that even this past Easter, some 43 years after the error was admitted, churches worldwide, still preached to their congregations of how this fallen woman, her ‘desperate past’ indicated by her red garments, was the first to report to the Apostles of the risen Christ. Even in popular culture, films such as Scorsese’s The Last Temptation of Christ, and Gibson’s The Passion of Christ, still depict Mary Magdelene as a prostitute.

In 1896, a papyrus was discovered bearing the title the Gospel of Mary, it elicted little attention, until 50 years later when the Nag Hammadi, or Gnostic Gospels were discovered and it was then translated. It showed quite clearly, as alluded to in the accepted texts of the New Testament, that Mary was at least the equal of the other Apostles, if not the one who best understood their master’s teachings. With the Pistis Sophia, we gain even further insight into the dynamics of the relationship between the disciples and Jesus, and find that Mary is most dominant in the questioning of Christ, and he bestows her responses with the highest of praise.

So what led Pope Gregory the Great to brand Mary Magdelene, with no real evidence as a whore?

In a social context, Gregory as a Pope returned the papacy, and the Roman Church, to patriarchy. The intrusion of the Germanic peoples, whose lore greatly the feminine, upon Roman culture did not sit well with Gregory, and he set about suppressing heretical beliefs in the wider church, most particularly in Africa, and amongst the Anglo-Saxons. The first three centuries of Christianity had in many ways, marked a spiritual and intellectual emancipation of women, that over the course of the middle-ages would, quite ruthlessly be suppressed. The early female teachers of Christianity, like Mary, Junia, Priscilla, and Thecla, were at first utilised as a conversion tool, as was the Virgin Mary, to supplant to Mother of All, but increasingly, from Gregory’s papacy, women were portrayed as the originators of sin, and imperfect because of the female form. God after all made man in his own image, and increasingly man was seen as the ‘head of woman’, and woman incapable of rational thought. In such a social landscape, how could the image of Mary Magdelene as most worthy of Jesus’s attention be allowed to pervade?

Which therefore leads us to the question of whether Pope Gregory made a political rather than a canonical decision to besmirch the good name of Mary Magdelene. And would this perhaps explain why, almost 1500 years later, the Roman church is unwilling to publicise the reasoning behind Gregory’s slander on Mary’s good name. Certainly, if we look at the persecution of the Cathars, and the other Gnostic sects, that taught that not only were women equal in the eyes of god, allowed women to preach, and in some cases, which can perhaps better explain the patriarch Gregory’s actions, that Mary was Jesus’s successor, not Peter, we can see why Mary Magdelene represented a threat to the totalitarian agenda that the Roman church was at that time setting forth.
edit on 29-4-2012 by Biliverdin because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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I can't tell you the number of times I have heard Mary confused with the woman at the well. She was very important to Jesus and his ministry. I have read that she helped to finance him. She was a favorite of His. Repeating some of what you said and adding I hope
.


As a follower, Mary was one of many women that accompanied Jesus during his travels, most of whom are believed to have been wealthy. During his journey, he was visited by two women, the unnamed sinner in Luke 7 and Mary of Bethany, both of whom anoint his feet and dry them with their hair, similar to the way Magdalene anointed him shortly after his death.. In 591, Pope Gregory the Great stated that all three were in fact one woman, Mary Magdalene, and this is how she became labeled as a prostitute, or the unnamed sinner. However the Second Vatican Council removed the prostitute label in 1969 after much debate and Biblical evidence that there was more than one Mary and that Mary of Magdalene and the unnamed sinner were two different figures. After Jesus’ death, the most controversy around Mary Magdalene’s life would unfold. In all four Gospels, she is the first to witness Jesus after his resurrection. Believed to be the Jesus’ favorite by the apostles, Mary is asked to reveal secret teachings given to her by Jesus while consoling the apostles. After her revelation, which is found in the Gnostic Gospel of Mary, she has a disagreement with Peter about the teachings. This is the beginning of strengthening Peter’s role in Christianity while lessening that of Mary’s. Gnosticism was not accepted into early Christianity due to its strange views, during the formation of the early church. Gnostics believe that the salvation of the soul comes from internal knowledge of the mysteries of our world, rather than purity of the soul.


departments.kings.edu...



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


Fascinating and well done. Thanks for the hard work and research!

Your theory about returning the Church to a heavily-patriachial slant makes complete sense. Just look how women rank within the Church over history. No biggie if one has to lie/exaggerate to achieve the intended goal.

This is the kind of story that causes myself to be spiritual, without any help from religion.

When religion takes a political tact, you're going to have problems!

S&F



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 





On the 14 September 591 Pope Gregory the Great delivered a homily on the Gospel of Luke in which he argued that the sinful woman, who while dining at Simon’s house washes Jesus’s feet with her tears, was in fact Mary Magdalene.


I believe this woman was Jesus' wife.
Luke 7:38 reads as this.


and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.


In Jewish custom it is ONLY the wife who is to sit at the feet of a man. (this can be re-inforced with luke 10:39)



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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What is interesting about this redaction, is that while clarifying that Pope Gregory the Great was incorrect, they fail to comment on why and how he was incorrect. His reasoning goes unquestioned. The error itself is corrected, without giving understanding to the circumstances that lead to that error. Nor was this retraction circulation ecumenically, so that even this past Easter, some 43 years after the error was admitted, churches worldwide, still preached to their congregations of how this fallen woman, her ‘desperate past’ indicated by her red garments, was the first to report to the Apostles of the risen Christ. Even in popular culture........................Text

even so.. Jesus existed before Adam
Did you know that Jesus existed before Adam?
answers.yahoo.com...
and ..did you know ..the same happened to shiva ...as google shows >>

To Daksha, Shiva was an unorthodox he... - VENUGOPALA - tribe.net
tribes.tribe.net/venugopala/.../6022ecfb-c61d-467f-8c9a-e6b303cadf...
2 posts - 1 author - 24 Sep 2009
Sati's father Daksha had never approved of his daughter's marriage. .... Daksa felt that the splendour of his magnificent sacrifice would be spoiled if Shiva, ... But the practice continued, and even now, satis are occasionally …


btw.....
.............link[/url ]
(gen Dios) [url=http://www.angelfire.com/wy/Franklin4YAHWEH/YahEncyTheos.html]links the

edit on 29-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)


name

link

idunno.....what does it mean
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www.harpblog.info...
'ere one more link-image
edit on 29-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)

and this ganz new one news2
edit on 29-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:39 PM
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Here are some of the excerpts from the Pistis Sophia which demonstrate Mary's position amongst the disciples...


When then he had said this to his disciples, he said unto them: "Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
It came to pass then, when Mary had heard the Saviour say these words, that she gazed fixedly into the air for the space of an hour. She said: "My Lord, give commandment unto me to speak in openness."

Mary Magdalene asketh and receiveth permission to speak.And Jesus, the compassionate, answered and said unto Mary: "Mary, thou blessed one, whom I will perfect in all mysteries of those of the height, discourse in openness, thou, whose heart is raised to the kingdom of heaven more than all thy brethren."

www.gnosis.org...


Then said Mary to the Saviour: "My Lord, the word which thou hast spoken unto us: 'Who |27. hath ears to hear, let him hear,' thou sayest in order that we may understand the word which thou hast spoken. Hearken, therefore, my Lord, that I may discourse in openness.

p. 21
Mary interpreteth the discourse from the words of Isaiah."The word which thou hast spoken: 'I have taken a third from the power of the rulers of all the æons, and changed their Fate and their sphere over which they rule, in order that, if the race of men invoke them in the mysteries--those which the angels who transgressed have taught them for the accomplishing of their evil and lawless deeds in the mystery of their sorcery,'--in order then that they may no more from this hour accomplish their lawless deeds, because thou hast taken their power from them and from their horoscope-casters and their consulters and from those who declare to the men in the world all things which shall come to pass, in order that they should no more from this hour know how to declare unto them any thing at all which will come to pass (for thou hast changed their spheres, and hast made them spend six months turned to the left and accomplishing their influences, and another six months facing the right and accomplishing their influences),--concerning this word then, my Lord, the power which was in the prophet Isaiah, hath spoken thus and proclaimed aforetime in a spiritual similitude, discoursing on the 'Vision about Egypt': 'Where then, O Egypt, where are thy consulters and horoscope-casters and those who cry |28. out of the earth and those who cry out of their belly? Let them then declare unto thee from now on the deeds which the lord Sabaōth will do!'

"The power then which was in the prophet Isaiah, prophesied before thou didst come, that thou wouldst take away the power of the rulers of the æons and wouldst change their sphere and their Fate, in order that they might
p. 22

know nothing from now on. For this cause it hath said also: 'Ye shall then know not of what the lord Sabaōth will do '; that is, none of the rulers will know what thou wilt do from now on,--for they are 'Egypt,' because they are matter. The power then which was in Isaiah, prophesied concerning thee aforetime, saying: 'From now on ye shall then know not what the lord Sabaōth will do.' Because of the light-power which thou didst receive from Sabaōth, the Good, who is in the region of the Right, and which is in thy material body to-day, for this cause then, my Lord Jesus, thou hast said unto us: 'Who hath ears to hear, let him hear,'--in order that thou mightest know whose heart is ardently raised to the kingdom of heaven."

www.gnosis.org...


It came to pass then, when Mary had finished saying these words, that he said: "Well said, Mary, for thou art blessed before all women on the earth, |29. because thou shalt be the fulness of all fulnesses and the perfection of all perfections."

Jesus commendeth Mary. She further questioneth him on the changing of the spheres.Now when Mary had heard the Saviour speak these words, she exulted greatly, and she came before Jesus, fell down before him, adored his feet and said unto him: "My Lord, hearken unto me, that I may question thee on this word, before that thou discoursest with us about the regions whither thou didst go."
Jesus answered and said unto Mary: "Discourse in openness and fear not; all things on which thou questionest, I will reveal unto thee."

www.gnosis.org...



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by Iamschist
 


This has been bugging me since Easter weekend, I have only recently started attending church, so I am more familiar with the current scholarship of Mary Magdelene than I am with doctrine. I nearly stood up in my seat when first the rector admitted that the early tradition taught that Mary was a pupil of Jesus, and then went on to reaffirm the common belief that she was a prostitute. I don't understand why the churches are so reluctant to let this one go, when even the Roman Church, the ones that spread the rumour in the first place, have admitted that they were wrong in doing so.



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


Nice thread


I think if one looks at all of the evidence it becomes clear that the Christianity/Catholicism we have today was the result of a series of political decisions made in the early days of the movement, and then edited and re-edited throughout the centuries.

My thread here discusses some of the possible interpretations of Mary Magdelene (and the other Marys present in the New Testament).

Marys modern profile is merely a reflection of the times in which she found herself. It's also, in my opinion, a reflection upon how important she was to Jesus's ministry.

I suppose it all depends on which version of Jesus you believe in, and lets be honest, there are dozens to choose from.



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by Hessling
When religion takes a political tact, you're going to have problems!


Agreed, and the slander did go hand in hand with the increase in patriarchy as well as the suppression of the Gnostic sects...


In the early days of Christianity the hierarchical organised church saw the Gnostic mystics, with their subversive openness of spirit and anti-authority stance, as a dangerous threat to its growing power. Unlike the Roman church, in Gnostic groups women were openly functioning as priests and teachers and enjoyed acceptance.

In the 2nd century CE, the Church Father Tertullian particularly objected to "those women amongst the heretics" who held positions of authority. He angrily attacked "that viper" - a woman who was the spiritual teacher of a Gnostic group in northern Africa.

He was outraged, writing: "These heretical women - how audacious they are! They have no modesty. They are bold enough to teach, and engage in discussion; they exorcise; they cure the sick, and it may be they even baptise!... They also share the kiss of peace with all who come."

Although his views were in line with Jewish tradition from which Jesus had come, it is worth remembering Jesus himself had violated these conventions by openly communicating with women and including them amongst his most intimate followers.

By the 4th century CE the established Christian church was persecuting all Gnostics they could find, and killing them in the thousands. However, the Gnostic stream was not eliminated and remains underground to this very day.

www.gnostic.info...



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by LiveForever8
 


I remember your thread, and while I do think that there is some validity in the three Marys as representative of the tripartite Goddess, I also feel that the motivations for the slander of Mary Magdelene represent something more significant of the time in question, that being the suppression of female intellectualism. In some ways, I find the 'New Age' merger of the Marys as being part of that, or rather a continuation, rather than seeing women as individuals, with as much right and ability to find perfectibility, the New Age seeks to place them on a pedestal of sensuality, which can be just as disempowering.



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by openeyeswideshut
In Jewish custom it is ONLY the wife who is to sit at the feet of a man. (this can be re-inforced with luke 10:39)


But if that was the case, that would not explain the hosts horror at Jesus allowing this woman to wash his feet. Jewish custom was in fact that the host, male, should do that. Simon failed in doing so, and is rebuked by Jesus not only for his failure as host, but also for his judgement against the woman in serving that function. I don't think she was his wife.


36 When one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, he went to the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table. 37 A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. 38 As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.
39 When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.”
40 Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.”
“Tell me, teacher,” he said.
41 “Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,[a] and the other fifty. 42 Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”
43 Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.”
“You have judged correctly,” Jesus said.
44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”
48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
49 The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”
50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

www.biblegateway.com...



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


In my particular faith the issue became about what role are women going to play in society and the church. The acceptable role being wife/mother. If there was a woman disciple that would mean that Jesus did not find any difference in worthiness for discipleship between men and women. By extension, no difference between men and women in God's eyes.
However that idea, shakes up the whole we need to blame women for original sin and prove they are inferior deal.
It also might take the wife out of her role of being subservient to her husband and propose a kind of equality, the scary word! Those who are threatened find all sorts of Biblical evidence supporting the roles "helpmate" and "object of blame", and so on we go.



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by nii900
 


I apologise, but I think that you may have to explain a little bit more, I am not sure I am clear in what you are implying...I'm intrigued though.

Thanks for the reply



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by Iamschist
 


My favourite, from the middle-ages, particularly, Neo-Platoism, is that men were the 'Head' of women...and not meaning the head of the household, meaning that women were incapable of thinking for themselves, or even rationally...



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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This is very interesting, particularly where I have bolded...I should imagine that was a huge threat to a Church that taught that belief itself was enough was salvation...


The second-century Gospel of Mary was found in the late 19th century by archaeologists but remained largely ignored and untranslated for 50 years. It is the only account named for a woman and offers a different view of Christianity - one that describes an "interior spirituality," says Karen L. King, author of The Gospel of Mary of Magdala: Jesus and the First Woman Apostle.

In the Mary Magdalene account, "salvation is not something that comes from an external saviour," says King. "One has to seek salvation within." Thus, the Magdalene gospel depicts Jesus as a teacher rather than as a saviour who dies to atone for humanity's sins.

In her introduction in The Complete Gospels, Karen King says:

"...the Gospel of Mary communicates a vision that the world is passing away, not toward a new creation or a new world order, but toward the dissolution of an illusory chaos of suffering, death, and illegitimate domination. The Saviour has come so that each soul might discover its own true spiritual nature, its 'root' in the Good, and return to the place of eternal rest beyond the constraints of time, matter, and false morality."


www.gnostic.info...



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by openeyeswideshut
 





I believe this woman was Jesus' wife.


I agree with you. I think that this is why she was defiled by the RCC. A wife, above all people, knows the humanity of her husband.

You can't have the RCC's version of Jesus if he was married, as all Jews were commanded to procreate. A man would not be allowed to be ordained as a Rabbi if he didn't have his own family, and kept it's order according to Mosaic Law.



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by Biliverdin
reply to post by nii900
 


I apologise, but I think that you may have to explain a little bit more, I am not sure I am clear in what you are implying...I'm intrigued though.

Thanks for the reply
We.... know.... what is word, ....right?
..'nd theres voice ...but



Text......In talking about phonemes as distinct from letters, we symbolize them with Roman letters inside slash marks, for example, /t/. Since diacritical marks are hard to type, I try to use the most common spelling of the phoneme as a symbol, for example, /ch/ for the first sound in chair. For the short vowels I use lower case letters (e.g., /a/ as in hat), and for the long vowels I use capitals (e.g., /A/ as in rain). Letters are italicized without slash marks around them.
where there 3 of the or 2 0r 1 that is the question?

How to Count Phonemes in Spoken Words
www.auburn.edu...
Phonemes are the basic vocal gestures of a language, recycled to form all our spoken words. English has about 42 distinct phonemes. These 42 mouth moves compose the interchangeable parts from which all our spoken words are constructed.

now..in buddism its a bit different
there are 42 letters and... of course
The Forty-Two Stages to En-lighten-ment
www.tientai.net...
www.tientai.net...
all the while shiva had 44 names
edit on 29-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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ah yeah .. and we... we have 46 chromosomes and sum like 64 hexagrams
and all that all that makes now aaaahmm....46 x 64 384
better...…in'
...clearnes

edit on 29-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)

as y h u h ..we had what 2 sillables and then the third so three seasons at first ;thay; say than 4 and now every day one so 384
law rules

.. the 3>?

edit on 29-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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love lady love

Originally posted by nii900
ah yeah .. and ....... than 4 and now every day one so 384
law rules

.. the 3>?

edit on 29-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)



Zen Stories


“ A student asked master Bankei

“ How can I cure my terrible temper?”

“Show it to me,” demanded Bankei,

“ I can’t just show it to you like that because it comes on unexpectedly.”

Explained the student. Bankei replied

“It is not your true nature, then. If it were it would be with you at all time.”
www.poetseers.org...



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 09:43 PM
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384
moon days ..and ways/waves/

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY




Everyone is anxious to avoid old age and death; it is human nature to be anxious. But of what avail is mere anxiety? Your conduct and behaviour should be in accordance with your objective. If you have sincere yearning and place your full trust and faithfully surrender to the Lord, He will melt the fog of grief by the rays of His Grace.



If you place your trust on the objects of this world, the consequent grief will never end, nor can they be ended by anyone other than the Lord. Serve the Master of maya (illusion), the Designer of all this dreamland, rather than the dream itself.




-BABA




To receive the 'Thought for the Day' through email, please click here.
edit on 29-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)
edit on 29-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)





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