Originally posted by greyer

Ottobot, please don't make me quote myself, I said I was not looking for love from a girl or woman. I mentioned feeling good when a girl smiled at me, that is just because I am heterosexual.

Ok, I'll quote you for you. Here's a rundown of what my response was in reference to:

Or when in public I can picture attractive girls naked, lol it won't get me anywhere but a lustful thought.

Only attractive girls, not those girls who don't meet your "definitely want to envision naked" standards. Ok.

People look at you when walking down the street, you will be some form of entertainment to them whether a bum, or an attractive girl, or anybody - people look.

And what of an unattractive girl? People are people, but you take the time to reference attractive girls again.

In the midst of practicing this I saw a beautiful girl and she smiled at me when pulled up in her car. At this point most guys would be elated, girls are a probably more calm because they know guys are more 'physically' attracted to them when they are more attracted to a guys personality.

So, if girls are more attracted to personality, do you just have an outstanding personality? She's smiling at you because she knows she's so beautiful that you can't keep your eyes off her?

I didn't end up meeting the love of my life I have always been waiting for but I have come to realize that this goal is not going to be accomplished over night, I must practice, practice, practice.

So, you are "looking" for the love of your life.

I am a guy who has always been told I was attractive, but have never met a girl who I was attracted to and who was interested in me. So I have pretty much given up into gaining any love from any girl, we don't get along great because I was the one who yearned for love year after year when none of them were interested in me.

You've never met a girl who meets your attractiveness standard - that "I'm an attractive male and thus need a socially/stereotypically attractive female on my arm to be seen as a stud" standard? - and who has been attracted to you. Clearly, the "unattractive" females who've wanted your attentions were just too ugly all around to even be considered. Personality < "Attractive".

To clarify my goal - it is to walk down any street and be able to converse with Anybody and make real connections at the time of meeting them. Girls just add spice to the mix because since I am attracted to them it is nearly impossible to act the exact same as to somebody I am not attracted to, but maybe if I did I would finally have a girl interested in me.

To summarize, you've given up finding someone who is "attractive" and who is attracted to you, so you will be indifferent and hope that maybe that indifference allows you to interact with an "attractive" girl who will then like your personality and be attracted to you?

So, again, if your mate must be "attractive", but you attempt indifference... what happens when an "unattractive" girl falls in love with your personality?

The reason why I think most girls were not interested is because of my self image - I live in an area where tatoos and punk rock are very popular, since I don't have that style I have seen many girls choose the guy with tatoos over me - it was not because of my looks or personality but my self image.

Choose them over you? How's that? Are you saying you've been "friend-zoned" a bunch of times? If so, did you make your intent known to the girls who choose TatMan instead of you?

You say they choose the other guys because of their looks and the image they put out... but the girls don't care about the looks and image you put out.

Which is it?

So I agree with what I am learning here, I just think girls are so absorbed in self image that I will never find true love, not at least where I live now.

You're right about that... but the same stereotypical girls are everywhere. Problem is, you keep looking for them to be your "true love".

In this case no, I saw a beautiful girl smile at me and there was no time to think anything but feel a rush. There is no way I can see a beautiful girl smile at me and not feel, witness, and acknowledge in my heart that she is beautiful. I can lie and make it seem like a think she is ugly - and yes those are the guys who get beautiful girls. It is well known fine looking girls like 'bad boys,' and it is probably just the lack of self image they have, I can agree with that.

"Bad Boy" is the self image. Girl thinks she's "girl who likes bad boys", so looks for them.

I get it, you don't want to set yourself up for disaster.

But, really, when you notice one girl over another and give one girl more attention then another, you are doing it for that reason, to some degree.

This was my point.

Quote away, Greyer.

Originally posted by ottobot
Only attractive girls, not those girls who don't meet your "definitely want to envision naked" standards. Ok.

ottobot I was completely joking, a girl said to picture them in the underwear and it reminded me people always say naked, it's funny because guys love to see girls naked but girls usually don't like to see guys naked or pretend they don't.

And what of an unattractive girl? People are people, but you take the time to reference attractive girls again.

I shouldn't be blamed for mentioning an attractive girl again, since they were on my mind anyways because I was discussing the subject.

So, if girls are more attracted to personality, do you just have an outstanding personality? She's smiling at you because she knows she's so beautiful that you can't keep your eyes off her?.

No this is way off subject, I think she smiled at me because I looked attractive but I am not arguing over stuff like that.

So, you are "looking" for the love of your life.

Just because I want something doesn't mean I am turning over rocks and looking for it.

You've never met a girl who meets your attractiveness standard - that "I'm an attractive male and thus need a socially/stereotypically attractive female on my arm to be seen as a stud" standard? - and who has been attracted to you. Clearly, the "unattractive" females who've wanted your attentions were just too ugly all around to even be considered. Personality < "Attractive".

Again you are going off topic because this thread is about losing any kind of self-image and the answer is no. In order to be in love there needs to be some physical attraction, I realize there is much more needed for it to work out.

To summarize, you've given up finding someone who is "attractive" and who is attracted to you, so you will be indifferent and hope that maybe that indifference allows you to interact with an "attractive" girl who will then like your personality and be attracted to you?

Fear will never let her to get a chance to know my personality, so breaking from fear and losing my self-image will determine the result of my actions I believe. Indifference as nothing to do with it because I have a deep interest and motivation to pursue this subject.

So, again, if your mate must be "attractive", but you attempt indifference... what happens when an "unattractive" girl falls in love with your personality?

I personally can't fall in love with a girl I am unattracted to, and I wouldn't want to try waking up to someone that I don't even like seeing.

Choose them over you? How's that? Are you saying you've been "friend-zoned" a bunch of times? If so, did you make your intent known to the girls who choose TatMan instead of you?

No they disrespected me and really let me know they didn't want anything to do with me. It happened many times in my current area with the particular trend I mentioned, and it doesn't happen where I am from. I am completely convinced girls don't like my style in Arizona and they do in northern California - they have told me.

You say they choose the other guys because of their looks and the image they put out... but the girls don't care about the looks and image you put out.

This was addressed by me in my question from an earlier post in this thread, the answer to me is that girls have a ton of self-image and I would rather not talk to them if they do.

You're right about that... but the same stereotypical girls are everywhere. Problem is, you keep looking for them to be your "true love".

Again, I am telling you the truth that I am not looking as you put it, why the heck would I not want love? Why would you not want love? That is just totally stupid. Human beings were made to live in love.

Originally posted by absolutely
wat prove what i say being right, is the fact that shyness is exclusively western trait, so the comment on what u quote is totally absurd

At least I was right, ha ha ha.

Originally posted by greyer
Just because I want something doesn't mean I am turning over rocks and looking for it.

All right, I can respect that. I just have a question about it: What do you expect from true love?

Again you are going off topic because this thread is about losing any kind of self-image and the answer is no. In order to be in love there needs to be some physical attraction, I realize there is much more needed for it to work out.

I don't think it's off topic, since at least half of the people you encounter will be female, and you've already admitted to having a hard time speaking with strangers, specifically of the female persuasion. That said, I've had people tell me that when they first met their significant other, they felt absolutely no attraction at all - it was only after getting to know the other person that they began to find them attractive.

So, no, physical attraction up front is not an indicator of whether or not the relationship has potential.

Fear will never let her to get a chance to know my personality, so breaking from fear and losing my self-image will determine the result of my actions I believe. Indifference as nothing to do with it because I have a deep interest and motivation to pursue this subject.

What I mean by "indifference" is that you will try talking to anyone, indiscriminately, in the hope that you will encounter the "right one".

I personally can't fall in love with a girl I am unattracted to, and I wouldn't want to try waking up to someone that I don't even like seeing.

OK, but would you even talk to the girl in the first place?

No they disrespected me and really let me know they didn't want anything to do with me. It happened many times in my current area with the particular trend I mentioned, and it doesn't happen where I am from. I am completely convinced girls don't like my style in Arizona and they do in northern California - they have told me.

Well, that's just pathetic on the parts of those girls. This is why I said women > girls.

This was addressed by me in my question from an earlier post in this thread, the answer to me is that girls have a ton of self-image and I would rather not talk to them if they do.

How do you gauge the amount of self-image a girl has?

Again, I am telling you the truth that I am not looking as you put it, why the heck would I not want love? Why would you not want love? That is just totally stupid. Human beings were made to live in love.

I have no answer to your questions, honestly, I just know that some people on this forum are always going on about eliminating emotion or needing other people to "complete" you or any type of hate/love relationship. I do agree, love is a universal human necessity.

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Originally posted by ottobot
All right, I can respect that. I just have a question about it: What do you expect from true love?

That's an easy one. I understand what it takes to cause euphoria, and love is the only thing I am aware of that causes euphoria naturally. Better than just a short period of time, but once all night I felt it, so if I was to ever toss or turn it would be like a heroin high.

So, no, physical attraction up front is not an indicator of whether or not the relationship has potential.

To me that would be another thread, because communication with a girl who could have any potential to be a lover, attractive or not, is different than communication with the world. I think the reason why is because they are communicating with you, and this communication is a body language slash mental game type of communication, they are communicating deeply.

OK, but would you even talk to the girl in the first place?

Yes, because there will be no communication from her, basically I think it is just hard when they are already communicating with body language, its like you can see into their mind and its not pretty.

How do you gauge the amount of self-image a girl has?

I'm still not sure about self-image and will have to do more studying, but even when they like me it is hard for them to have a relationship and to me it is because they have a lot of tattoos because they find someone with them, it is a social crowd type of thing. I can probably not have any self-image and still fit into a social crowd.

Originally posted by greyer
That's an easy one. I understand what it takes to cause euphoria, and love is the only thing I am aware of that causes euphoria naturally. Better than just a short period of time, but once all night I felt it, so if I was to ever toss or turn it would be like a heroin high.

Lucky! May you find this euphoria again in your life.

To me that would be another thread, because communication with a girl who could have any potential to be a lover, attractive or not, is different than communication with the world. I think the reason why is because they are communicating with you, and this communication is a body language slash mental game type of communication, they are communicating deeply.

Yes, because there will be no communication from her, basically I think it is just hard when they are already communicating with body language, its like you can see into their mind and its not pretty.

Hmm. That's an interesting way of looking at it. See, I must just be that clueless. Because, I will talk to people and hang out with them without any thought of any type of relationship other than friendship, just enjoying one another's company, conversing, learning from one another.

Unfortunately for me, I get along quite a bit better with males than with females, but when a straight male starts "liking" me, it gets all kinds of uncomfortable. So, it's easier just to not have any friends.

I've been told that it is "impossible" for a heterosexual male to want to be friends with a female without having ulterior motives. As in, the female is only friend material because she is also attractive enough to the male that he would want more than just friendship. And, that just sucks. Why the heck would you want every single person of the opposite gender to be either a yes/no? Why not just accept them for who they are?

I guess I really am clueless. :-/

Anyway, I am not a game player and I don't think I'm giving off "come hither" body language... So, are you sure this "body language" you're seeing from girls isn't just in your imagination?

I mean, you say you can see "into their mind", what is it that you see? Some imagination that you're their knight in shining armor? Some imagination that you are the father of their unattractive children? What is it?

I'm still not sure about self-image and will have to do more studying, but even when they like me it is hard for them to have a relationship and to me it is because they have a lot of tattoos because they find someone with them, it is a social crowd type of thing. I can probably not have any self-image and still fit into a social crowd.

Fitting in is extremely easy. You just copy everyone else and keep your mouth shut when you disagree with them.

If someone likes you romantically and can't have a relationship with you because you don't have enough tattoos, then they don't like you as much as you think they do. I can't see why you'd want to be in a relationship with someone who is that superficial? What am I missing here?

Not sure that your boss is a jerk as other posters have stated.

However, it sounds like you have difficulty talking to others.

Just remember, that no matter who the audience is, they're just people, just like you.

I once gave a talk to a group of people in town, and the mayor showed up, out of the blue, unannounced. She told me "don't change anything on my account". My response? "don't worry, I won't". She was quite taken aback.

When my mum's boyfriend met Charles and Camilla at a Highgrove House garden party (he occasionally does some consulting work for them), Camilla said to him "I hear we're lucky to have you". His response? "Why yes, yes you are.".

Remember, no matter WHO the audience is, they're just people.

Originally posted by babybunnies
However, it sounds like you have difficulty talking to others.

Want to call me and see? I have good communication skills. I can talk to people who don't talk at all and there will still never be a silent moment.

Originally posted by ottobot
Hmm. That's an interesting way of looking at it. See, I must just be that clueless. Because, I will talk to people and hang out with them without any thought of any type of relationship other than friendship, just enjoying one another's company, conversing, learning from one another.

This thread is going in a different direction than intended - fear in society. I know for a fact when I started this thread I walked down the streets and into gas stations to interact with the public with great success. Then I noticed the body language of almost everybody trying to avoid communication of interaction by walking different ways and in one case stopping in their tracks and turning around. I have measured the results of my previous claims and I am struggling to bring everybody out of their fear of each other. I am claiming that this is because of fear and ignorance, not indifference. Speaking of girls and tattoos is the same as riding a tricycle down a New York street, this is a psychological aim.

are you sure this "body language" you're seeing from girls isn't just in your imagination?

I mean, you say you can see "into their mind", what is it that you see? Some imagination that you're their knight in shining armor? Some imagination that you are the father of their unattractive children? What is it?

I see that they are testing me. They are observing my body language to see what I am going to do. Their happiness is based on my reaction and it is a game to them.

Fitting in is extremely easy. You just copy everyone else and keep your mouth shut when you disagree with them.

That is very true, when we are getting to the point is knowing the person better to me it is extremely important to not speak as if you want something. However copying everyone else is something they can see and tell immediately, nobody should be a poser.

I'm doing better in this, but I want to start a new thread because I surely believe there is Much more fear in society - just from simple every day talking - communication, at least in my state.

what is the notion that makes us breathe more when we come in verbal contact with a stranger? What in our mind do we need to think in order to not have any effect?