Everyone Should Read - Fine Line Between Life and Death

NIGHTMARE ....

"Brain dead" people not really brain dead, but are conscious.
Doctors not understanding when someone is really brain dead.
'Dead" organ donors aware and feeling pain when their organs are removed.

There is a multi-billion dollar organ donor industry ... I'm sure they are scared of this fella ...
YIKES ... here's a smidgen of what the interview says ..

Fine Line Between Life and Death

Q.It seems like a lot of the concerns you raise could be at least partially alleviated by more rigorous training and implementation of protocols about determining brain death. Do you agree, or would that not be going far enough?

A.Not really. It’s true that as much as 65 percent of brain death exams are done incorrectly, and many doctors could not list the criteria for brain death correctly. Doctors I talked to said not to worry about patients moving about on the table or their blood pressure or heart rate spiking during harvest. These were just post-death reflexes, not an indication of pain or awareness. And yet the Harvard Criteria, the ur-text of brain death published in 1968, specifically state that there should be no reflexes and no movement. But the bigger problem is that brain death as death per se is a fiction. There is no scientific purpose for brain death. It’s a serious, serious kind of coma, but not death. It was made death for practical reasons. The heart of a brain-dead person still beats, and circulates blood to the organs, keeping them fresh for their future owners. And though the 1981 UDDA (Uniform Determination of Death Act) states that the “whole brain” must be dead, the whole brain is rarely tested. Usually, only activity in the brain stem is tested, not the cortex or higher structures of the brain, where consciousness, pain, and pleasure are interpreted.

Q.Do you see an active conspiracy between the transplant community and those who determine when a patient is dead?

A.Conspiracy is such a harsh word. Let’s say there’s a happy confluence of coincidences that results in $27 billion of revenue per year for the transplant business and incomes unheard of in other medical specialties. On average, a solid, internal organ transplant generates $650,000 all down the line. There are humanitarian reasons to push the envelope also. There are 113,000 people presently waiting for someone to die and leave them an organ, and transplant doctors value these patients and want to help them. The donors? Not so much.

My brother had a massive stroke last year at the age of 42. Based on an MRI, the doctors said he was brain dead with no chance for recovery, and asked us to consider donating his organs. The following day he woke up, looked at my sister ans asked "What happened?" He is still in rehab, but expected to make almost a full recovery with time and effort. I do wonder why they were so quick with a tragic diagnosis.

I used to have 'organ donor' on my drivers liscense. Now that I have autoimmune I don't. But if I was still able, I'd be re-thinking if I wanted it on there or not. I'm not liking what I'm hearing ....

reply to post by FlyersFan


I've long suspected that something was amiss with the whole organ donor program. I know and feel sorry for those on the waiting lists,but... I wouldn't want someone else killed over it either.
Had an incident with my exs aunt . She was declared brain dead and her husband donated her organs against the rest of our wishes. I had a bad feeling back then about it and I still do now. Therefore I won't donate anything.
I also had a cousin that was desperate for a kidney as I was growing up, she ended up taking her brothers, her fathers, and a stranger. Still died when she was in her 20s. what a waste really.Most organ recipients aren't expected to live very long after receiving a organ anyway. They told my uncle that he had 5 years after taking a kidney from his brother.

Doctors always prepare you for the worst.

Then when there is recovery....They look like heroes.

Originally posted by whyamIhere

Doctors always prepare you for the worst.

Then when there is recovery....They look like heroes.

After working side by side with many physicians, I am witness to the exact opposite. In my opinion, where I work, they do not stress enough of what their diagnosis could be....I wish they would; but at the same time, you do not want the patient to give up HOPE.....it truly is a fine balance.....

Patient education is essential, but so many patients do not either have the coping skills to handle a poor prognosis or the cognitive skills to understand.

This whole thing is a bit disturbing as I have personally prepared bodies for harvest.......VERY scary INDEED!!

Originally posted by AliWV
My brother had a massive stroke last year at the age of 42. Based on an MRI, the doctors said he was brain dead with no chance for recovery, and asked us to consider donating his organs. The following day he woke up, looked at my sister ans asked "What happened?" He is still in rehab, but expected to make almost a full recovery with time and effort. I do wonder why they were so quick with a tragic diagnosis.

Yup. This is just a push for more suffering by a Luciferan , CIA run ritualistic system that loves sacrifices IMO.

We used to be organ donors, but NOT ANY MORE! I've known this for a few years now.

reply to post by Starwise


Well some areas are more hijacked than others. There are tons of white hats, but statistically its not worth the risk.

Example of differences between doctors. Last summer had major surgery, internal mesh added to bring support up to my system whihc is collapsing due to Chronic Fatigue.

The surgeon/specialist, was wonderful Very intelligent man, obviously mason and all that, but still he is a great guy.

But, his painting in his office, black and white checkerboard floors, and sheep really alerted me to his mystery school knowledge.

Oh, and he slipped in that they were going to use a experimental new drug on me that would enable me to forget the whole surgery, so as to reduce trauma. I said NO to that.

Nightmare is right! I have seen these tests done and have often wondered if the person was really brain dead. I personally think not in most cases. If it were me or any of my relatives, I'd think for a long time before making that decision. You never know, one might wake up!!!

Opps, my bad.

On the side note; Remember, the heart is more powerful than the brain. I made a thread on that awhile back.

reply to post by AliWV

Wouldn't by any chance be up in the Eastern Panhandle area, would it? The couple of hospitals there are HORRIBLE!

This makes me want to have the "Organ Donor" removed from my driver's license!!

Originally posted by Unity_99

Originally posted by AliWV
My brother had a massive stroke last year at the age of 42. Based on an MRI, the doctors said he was brain dead with no chance for recovery, and asked us to consider donating his organs. The following day he woke up, looked at my sister ans asked "What happened?" He is still in rehab, but expected to make almost a full recovery with time and effort. I do wonder why they were so quick with a tragic diagnosis.

Yup. This is just a push for more suffering by a Luciferan , CIA run ritualistic system that loves sacrifices IMO.

We used to be organ donors, but NOT ANY MORE! I've known this for a few years now.

That's a shame....but your decision, your body.
My sister died because too many people said no to being an organ donor, she was one of the longest serving on the waiting list at the time (6 years).
There are ALWAYS two sides to every argument.
In the end it wasn't her failing heart which killed her, it was her very delicate body, but she was toughest person I knew, who walked the Earth.
Although I used to think it should be made a law to donate organs, It's always been a personal choice.

This transplant business should be banned/outlawed.
It isn't a cure for the ill.
It gives people false hope, and they think everything will be just fine when they get this transplant.
These people don't live very long afterwards and can be mizerable till they die.
Those anti-rejection drugs suppress the immune system and they can have one infection after another.

I'm a donor. I don't regret it. If I were that badly messed up I'd rather give life to someone else than live some tragic half-life. But I am single and have no one to care for me and no kids. If my situation were different I might think differently.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I used to have 'organ donor' on my drivers liscense. Now that I have autoimmune I don't. But if I was still able, I'd be re-thinking if I wanted it on there or not. I'm not liking what I'm hearing ....

I have donor on mine as well. Like you, I too have to change it because of autoimmune. I do have to star and flag you though for this find. My stepmother was declared brain dead 2 years ago and after 2 days they pulled the plug on her machines. It does truly make you wonder. I remember being in a coma when I was 15 from severe blood loss during spinal surgery. I could hear everything going on around me, all the machines, people talking, but I couldn't respond. I felt like I was paralyzed. I could even hear my stepmother yelling for help when I began to choke on bile. I remember the doctors shoving the tube down my nose telling me to swallow. (That thing hurt like a *&*&!!) Even worse pain was when I woke and they took the tube out. Yeow! After that I did wonder about comas, brain dead, etc...

My neice, who is 22 years old, had a lung transplant last week. She almost died due to a genetic disease, and had that lung donor's parents not signed the papers, she wouldn't be here today.

Writer, thinker, college graduate, beautiful young woman. She has so much to live for. We feel so lucky that we may have her for more time to come. For the first time in her life, she is breathing without difficulty. I believe she deserved to live and her donor gave her the gift of life.

I will be a donor.

It's so easy to trash a program that hasn't benefited you directly.

Not everything is a conspiracy.

Some things are a gift.

I watched my stepdad in the hospital, “he had suffered a head injury due to a fall”, they told us his chance of survival was 1%, and he was technically brain dead on the first day. I can say one thing…after seeing all the things the doctors and nurses did for three days trying to keep this man alive, I’m a firm believer that what they told us was the truth. He failed three different tests with family as witness to what was happening; these tests happened several times within 72 hours with no response to any of the tests, we never were pressured by the doctors or donor originations during that time.

After he was declared dead, we did speak to a representative for organ donation, and went that way; it feels good to know someone else is having a better life because of that. I have also become a donor after that question and answer session with him… just goes to show that not all people from these organizations are bad, and there is allot of stuff I didn’t know about organ donation… which convinced me to change my mind.

Even if I was in a coma “still alive” without a noticeable response… I would still give my life to save another!!!

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by Starwise

 

But, his painting in his office, black and white checkerboard floors, and sheep really alerted me to his mystery school knowledge.

Oh, and he slipped in that they were going to use a experimental new drug on me that would enable me to forget the whole surgery, so as to reduce trauma. I said NO to that.

Get over the checkered floors guys. Really. Just because you see a checkered floor in a building made for someone with money, does not mean what you are so scared it does.

Enough alcohol would allow you to forget the entire thing also. No conspiracy needed. BOO!

Repo men. Jude Law. That's what I think of when I think of Organ donation.