Explain to me how Homosexuals are "born that way".

I think that people are missing a point...That is, if you were raised on canned foods for example, it is loaded with chemicals that feminize the male fetus or child....and cause a host of cancers.....

link

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by adigregorio
A human is a blank slate when it is born, it learns and constantly is learning. When I was young I hated coffee, now I can't live with out it. Was I "turned" into a coffeesexual? Or did my personal preferences change?

I guess it depends on what is in your coffee.

Of course the kids learn certain things. My son is a big NFL fan. He can be forgiven for being a Raiders fan though. He was raised the same way as any other child. His attraction just happens to be his own sex. He didn't learn that from my ex or I. Neither did we discourage it once it was known. So I can say that homosexuality is NOT a learned behavior.

I see where I am being misunderstood!!

I am not saying a human is taught by another human. This type of "learned" is much more complex, and deals with things commonly referred to as "triggers". I too have an alternative lifestyle, and while I am not of the gay club my club is pretty misunderstood as well.

I am not trying to use "proof by authority", just trying to show that I CAN relate to the subject matter (Even though I am not attracted to other guys, except Chuck Norris. But that is beyond my control...)

So yeah, by "learned behavior" I do not mean "taught by teachers" but as ways to cope with life, applied by the liver of said life. (But not the liver of the liver, unless they drink...)

Anyway, I knew we couldn't be that much in disagreement! Once again, my lack of communication skills is a detriment.

Humans are human, "Gay" "Straight" these are after lables. And do nothing to define the human in question anyway, or are we all just a compilation of our genitila and humper thoughts?

reply to post by intrepid


And I didnt like cheese, eggs, rice or oatmeal. I love cheese now, I like rice, I tolerate eggs and I still hate oatmeal. Some things are aquired.

Ask yourself one question. How did you learn to be straight? Explain to us how you are not born THAT way.

Originally posted by adigregorio
Humans are human, "Gay" "Straight" these are after lables. And do nothing to define the human in question anyway, or are we all just a compilation of our genitila and humper thoughts?

EXACTLY. Well said. What defines a person? Imo it is character. Will one steal? Will one lie? Those are aspects of a person that matter WAY more than who someone is attracted to.

reply to post by boncho


That's if there is indeed a "gay gene" though, I have yet to see it pointed out...

Until I do I will have to side with "thought processess" being the culprit, the brain is a messy tangled wire town. (Keep in mind, messy doesn't mean "wrong" or "bad".)

We are not the same person, well we might be but that is a different topic. Since we are not the same person, why would anyone in their right mind assume that we would have the same living habits?

I remember a friend I had back in the day, they used to ask me things like:

"ADiGregorio, when you look at me do you see a girl or a lesbian?"

I would respond with the ONLY proper answer:

"No, I see neither of those things. I see (her name), nothing more nothing less."

All those extra lables just cause fights, like this thread. If we continue to point out our differences, we will never see that we are the same...(Nirvanna Fallacy Alert!!)

I think that a persons sexuality has a lot to do with their upbringing. I believe we are are born the same and then it is down to environmental factors that shape a person from a young age.

Upbringing, influences etc. For example it seems that even in my lifetime there has been a massive rise in the number of homosexual men. I went to an all boys school and out of 180 lads in my year it turned out that 10% were gay.

Men these days tend to be more effeminate and camp, i believe this is to do with the barmy health and safety laws we suffer in the present and a 'bubble wrap' culture. Boys simply cannot be boys anymore and as such become more in touch with their feminine sides.

reply to post by adigregorio


Babies are not blank slates.

Babies are born with an eye for beauty. Infants only hours old will choose to stare at an attractive face rather than an unattractive one - and they also prefer to listen to Vivaldi straight, rather than Vivaldi backwards.

According to Alan Slater, a developmental psychologist at the University of Exeter, humans may have a biologically ingrained preference for beauty.

www.guardian.co.uk...

The researchers also found that newborns seem to have certain musical preferences built in from birth.

They displayed a red stripe on the board in front of the newborn. When the newborns looked at the stripe, the researchers played a piece of music. When the newborns looked away, the music was stopped.Their preferences (again measured by the attention they paid to the stimulus) were recorded by observers. "If you play Vivaldi's Four Seasons forward, then they like it. But if you play Vivaldi backwards, they don't like it so much," said Dr Slater.

news.bbc.co.uk...

If we're going to ask this question and take it seriously, lets actually answer it.

First please allow me to apologize, MODS, for the length of this post, and the number of quotes from outside sources it contains. I know it is verbose, possibly bordering on excessive. However in the context of this subject, it is essential that a wide variety of evidence be presented in a single, combined format, so that the evidence is both myriad and compelling when taken together as a whole. Sources are provided with two exceptions where the source is not available outside of the publication. Again, lets actually answer this question, at least to the extent currently possible. Okay?

To summarize the evidence which follows, the prevailing thinking on homosexuality is always evolving, as is all scientific inquiry, but the general consensus to date is that genes probably play at least some role, and that other factors probably do as well, but that sexual orientation is probably, generally, determined or at least predominantly influenced quite early - possibly even in the womb - and is not a choice.

The American Psychological Association says:

“Currently, there is no scientific consensus about the specific factors that cause an individual to become heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual—including possible biological, psychological, or social effects of the parents' sexual orientation. However, the available evidence indicates that the vast majority of lesbian and gay adults were raised by heterosexual parents and the vast majority of children raised by lesbian and gay parents eventually grow up to be heterosexual.”

www.courts.ca.gov...

The Royal College of Psychiatrists says:

“Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.”

www.rcpsych.ac.uk...

The American Academy of Pediatrics says:

“Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences. In recent decades, biologically based theories have been favored by experts. Although there continues to be controversy and uncertainty as to the genesis of the variety of human sexual orientations, there is no scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation. Current knowledge suggests that sexual orientation is usually established during early childhood.”

www.rcpsych.ac.uk...

pediatrics.aappublications.org...

books.google.com

The American Psychological Association says:

"There are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people."

(Continued...)

It cannot possibly be genetic.

If it were genetic, than the geneticist eugenicists could easily develop gene-therapy to "Fix" them.
And that is silly, no matter how hard you try you will never stop people of the same sex from kissing each other. That would be virtually impossible and absurd.

The homosexual community better wise up, because they are shooting themselves in the foot here.

If they just admitted that it's a CHOICE, than they would not face these future predicaments because they have the LEGAL RIGHT to choose their own lifestyle.

But since they claim this has nothing to do with Choice / Freedom, and it's all about being "born that way" with genetic abnormalities or deformities, than I guess the gene therapists and eugenicists are going to have a field day. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, and that time is quickly approaching.

Saying that homosexuality is genetic is not only incorrect, it's foolish and sets them up for a "cleansing".

reply to post by flyingkiwi


Really??? So, your logic seems to say that when we have children, they should all look the same? Natural selection changes each person us practically indiscriminately. That's why my bother is bald now, I'm not.
People are born gay. It runs in ALL families. Look a little closer... you'll find it your family line too.

reply to post by KingDoey


WRONG!!!!!:

I think that a persons sexuality has a lot to do with their upbringing. I believe we are are born the same and then it is down to environmental factors that shape a person from a young age.

Go "back" and 're-think' this nonsense...OK???

(Concluding from above post...)

Again, please forgive the verbosity and relliance on external links in these posts. However, again, if we are to truly address this rationally and accurately, we must present a strong, thorough case. If we are hamstrung in doing so, the conversation is moot.

Continuing now from my previous post...

Professor Michael King says:

"The conclusion reached by scientists who have investigated the origins and stability of sexual orientation is that it is a human characteristic that is formed early in life, and is resistant to change. Scientific evidence on the origins of homosexuality is considered relevant to theological and social debate because it undermines suggestions that sexual orientation is a choice."

www.churchtimes.co.uk...

Zietsch et al. (2008) says:

"There is considerable evidence that human sexual orientation is genetically influenced, so it is not known how homosexuality, which tends to lower reproductive success, is maintained in the population at a relatively high frequency... while genes predisposing to homosexuality reduce homosexuals' reproductive success, they may confer some advantage in heterosexuals who carry them... genes predisposing to homosexuality may confer a mating advantage in heterosexuals, which could help explain the evolution and maintenance of homosexuality in the population."

A 2010 study by Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab says:

“The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.”

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

In conclusion, current evidence strongly suggests sexual orientation is not a choice, is resistant to conscious change (although there is research pointing toward spontaneous orientation fluidity, which is not the same thing,) has some genetic component, and is determined early in life, and possibly in the womb.

reply to post by ProudBird


And how is that nonsense? Look at the rise in the number of homosexuals in modern times compared to last century, and then look at the way society has changed with regards to what kids can do etc.

How can you not see that correlation?

Originally posted by KingDoey
Upbringing, influences etc. For example it seems that even in my lifetime there has been a massive rise in the number of homosexual men.

No, it's because in todays society gays are freer that they have been able to be in the past. Hell, gays have been killed for just being gay in my lifetime. That said I'm older than god.

Men these days tend to be more effeminate and camp...

That's a stereotype. My son is the LAST thing from effeminate. He'd kick your ass, believe me.