Explain to me how Homosexuals are "born that way".

Originally posted by libertytoall


Comparing 10% of the population as left handed to 10% of the population being gay has absolutely ZERO relation to each other.

^ Apparently, intentionally exagerated disinfo and homophobia have a high relation to one another, wonder why?



being gay is like being left handed:

www.perthnow.com.au...

1) The fact that both percentages are relatively the same throughout countries across the globe, indicate a genetic influence (nature) rather than a social/culltural conditioning influence (nurture) - for both handedness and sexuality, 10%

2) Left-handers are approximately 39% more likely to be homosexual, multiple studies suggest.

3) Both handedness and homosexuals are stable traits more than temporary behaviours. Most left handers and homosexuals remain so from maturity and for the rest of their life - unless they're are trying to fit into the other 90% - in both "absolutely unrelated" instances

Originally posted by BiggerPicture

Originally posted by libertytoall


Comparing 10% of the population as left handed to 10% of the population being gay has absolutely ZERO relation to each other.

^ Apparently, intentionally exagerated disinfo and homophobia have a high relation to one another, wonder why?

So now you're going to resort to the same old tactics of calling me a homophobic person.. Earlier in the thread it turned into attacks on "bible thumping" people, too bad I am neither.. Maybe because I feel constantly under attack "falsely" by gay people I have no pity left. I will never find it natural to be gay until someone proves it scientifically. Having gay people attack non gay people with differing opinions only means it is the gay people who have no acceptance to people who think differently. And you are asking us for equality and understanding while you attack everyone who thinks different?

being gay is like being left handed:

Prove it.. Unless someone is going to prove that to me with scientific research your opinion doesn't hold weight any more than mine.

www.perthnow.com.au...

That article means nothing.. It's more opinions by one side promoting one side.. Show me the science already..

1) The fact that both percentages are relatively the same throughout countries across the globe, indicate a genetic influence (nature) rather than a social/culltural conditioning influence (nurture) - for both handedness and sexuality, 10%

10% of the population is overweight. Is that genetic?
10% of people think the end of the world is coming. Is that a genetic?
10% of people don't sleep enough. Is that a genetic?

Just because 10% of people are gay doesn't automatically make it genetic in nature.

2) Left-handers are approximately 39% more likely to be homosexual, multiple studies suggest.

Where's the study and what is it based on?

3) Both handedness and homosexuals are stable traits more than temporary behaviours.

So is kleptomania, pyromania, and even murder. Are they born that way? Is a serial rapist born that way? Is going to McDonald's everyday and weighing too much the signs of a persons genetics or their actions?

I'm still not convinced yet.. For example a fictional person who's under sexual frustration working around kids might find themselves being attarcted to children.(not a generalization of all people) Let's say they turn into a child molester committing crimes for 20 years. Was this fictional person born to be attracted to children? Is it genetic?

This is where the argument fails with me... What if I was born unable to be pleased by 1 woman? Am I entitled to be a polygamist?

Just to add to the above post my sister in law was straight for 15 years then gay for 15- 20 years and is now straight, married, and has two children.

How is that genetic?? I don't think she would say she was born that way or else how could she flip flop??

reply to post by libertytoall


Being gay is being gay. I'm gay. I don't care why I'm gay, by do all of you heterocentrists seems to car so god damned much

Originally posted by dorkfish87
reply to post by libertytoall

 

Being gay is being gay. I'm gay. I don't care why I'm gay, by do all of you heterocentrists seems to car so god damned much

Personally I don't care who wants to be gay. Have a wonderful life together. The only time I care is when you add children into the equation. I believe children need a male and female roll as their parents in order to have a healthy stable upbringing. If being gay truly is genetic than you are only creating more people who are likely to be gay. That's not a bad thing until it's 500 years from now and humankind is on the verge of extinction. I am always willing to change my opinion if information warrants it but their is no study to go on and I'm not the type that would risk even one child's future in order to find out how they would fair emotionally.

Originally posted by libertytoall
Just to add to the above post my sister in law was straight for 15 years then gay for 15- 20 years and is now straight, married, and has two children.

How is that genetic?? I don't think she would say she was born that way or else how could she flip flop??

edit on 6-5-2012 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)

It's called being bisexual and one is just as gay and it doesn't just "go away". Even though she's married with children doesn't mean she still isn't attracted to women. Maybe she just wanted children, maybe she was tired of being harrassed for being a lesbian, or maybe, just maybe, like no one seems to understand, she found someone she loved, and it didn't matter if it was a man or woman. It still doesn't change the fact that she's bisexual, it just means that she's not in a lesbian relationship. Have you ever asked her what "changed" each time? Do you think that her upbringing made her that way, since it was not genetic? I bet asking that upsets you, but that's the point... it hurts when claims like that are made, doesn't it?

Your reasoning about your sister is the exact reason why those programs that claim to revert gays fail horribly, because it doesn't really change the person, it just changes the persona, by using fear and shame to get someone to "step back in line". Behavior on the outside doesn't necessarily reflect emotion on the inside.

Originally posted by libertytoall

Comparing 10% of the population as left handed to 10% of the population being gay has absolutely ZERO relation to each other. Is this the scientific evidence I'm suppose to read to sway my opinion??

How pathetic.

No matter what someone posts - - - - a poster comes along and twists it to try to discredit it - - - and presents their own twisted viewpoint.

Both are born physical differences. Simple as that.

If I'm autosexual should I be allowed to marry myself and gain the tax benefits of a married couple simply because it's not my fault I prefer sex with myself rather than with a partner?

Most heterosexuals cannot stop the attraction to other women after marriage. Not to say that all men would cheat given the opportunity but most if not all men will look at a woman who is very good looking and wish they could have them. Being married does not turn off that emotion. I'm guessing your argument of being genetically gay is much the same way. I can accept that as I've said I'm not against homosexuality but I do have concerns about raising children at least in a world where they COULD feel ashamed or ridiculed for the way their parents are for the rest of their lives. If we were in a utopian world then everyone would accept everyone but we're not there yet and children being raised in a family with homosexual parents will certainly have some sort of effect on their mental health over being raised in what society considers a "normal" family.

Originally posted by libertytoall

Personally I don't care who wants to be gay. Have a wonderful life together. The only time I care is when you add children into the equation.

This ridiculousness is old and retarded.

You may care - - but children don't. Children respond to love and nurturing. What gender someone is - - - is not even part of their equation.

I was raised by a disabled mother and grandmother. Trust me - - the fact they were women meant nothing.

I was much closer to my sensitive writer father - - - who was too weak to stick it out.

Originally posted by libertytoall
..I do have concerns about raising children at least in a world where they COULD feel ashamed or ridiculed for the way their parents are for the rest of their lives. If we were in a utopian world then everyone would accept everyone but we're not there yet and children being raised in a family with homosexual parents will certainly have some sort of effect on their mental health over being raised in what society considers a "normal" family.

I agree. Children should also not have to endure being raised by couples who: are obese, inter-racial, physically disabled, mentally disabled, have bad fashion sense. Just to name a few disqualifiers, because people might make fun of them

touche

Originally posted by JohnnyTHSeed

Originally posted by libertytoall
..I do have concerns about raising children at least in a world where they COULD feel ashamed or ridiculed for the way their parents are for the rest of their lives. If we were in a utopian world then everyone would accept everyone but we're not there yet and children being raised in a family with homosexual parents will certainly have some sort of effect on their mental health over being raised in what society considers a "normal" family.

I agree. Children should also not have to endure being raised by couples who: are obese, inter-racial, physically disabled, mentally disabled, have bad fashion sense. Just to name a few disqualifiers, because people might make fun of them

Thank you.

I'm so sick of the pathetic One Man - One Woman parenting.

It probably does more harm then good IMO.

Originally posted by libertytoall

Originally posted by dorkfish87
reply to post by libertytoall

 

Being gay is being gay. I'm gay. I don't care why I'm gay, by do all of you heterocentrists seems to car so god damned much

Personally I don't care who wants to be gay. Have a wonderful life together. The only time I care is when you add children into the equation. I believe children need a male and female roll as their parents in order to have a healthy stable upbringing. If being gay truly is genetic than you are only creating more people who are likely to be gay. That's not a bad thing until it's 500 years from now and humankind is on the verge of extinction. I am always willing to change my opinion if information warrants it but their is no study to go on and I'm not the type that would risk even one child's future in order to find out how they would fair emotionally.

Actually recent studies say a child raised by two men is more likely to have a stable home, better grades, and is MORE likely to be straight than a kid raised by a man and a woman. And since most children now are raised only by one parent, yur point is moot. If me and my partner want to have children we have as much right as a straight couple does.

You keep asking for proof to validate homosexuality, and for that I say who died and made you god? Prove to me that straight people deserve to have children and be married, since half of your marriages end in divorce and broken homes.

Turn within to the troubles in your life and you will see that you aren't god and cannot make life choices that impact others

Originally posted by libertytoall
touche

I must say, you first struck me as a Bible-basher with the whole Noah analogy.

However, you seem to be expanding your thoughts a bit, and I can't say that you still come across as a threatening or violent homophobe at all.

A lot of what you mention has actually been discussed in this thread or elsewhere on ATS.
I'd say that research is indeed continuing on genetic links to things like obesity, religion, sociopaths and an increasing number of characteristics.
And then there's the whole issue of female versus male homosexuality, which might be quite different.

For me being gay is an orientation, and not an act, and I see attractive men walking about that I can never have, just like the marriage illustration you provide.
I've been celibate for a while, but that doesn't mean I'm not aware of my orientation, and other people notice it too, whether I like it or not.

I don't have kids, but neither being heterosexual or homosexual is automatically going to make one a good or bad parent.
The research and generations of people raised by gay parents does not show any reason for concern.

Most gay parents I've known got their kids while they were living in the closet (in straight relationships), although we have many desperate orphanages with kids that need a home, and some gay couples have gone this route.
Couples go through strict screening however, and children are certainly not dished out at the drop of a hat.
We've had gay marriage in SA since 2006, but still gay couples feel their process is more tough, but it's not impossible.

Gay parenting is going off topic somewhat (since most gays are born into heterosexual relationships).

We do live in a society where not everything is accepted.
Religion puts out a lot of propaganda, but strangely religious institutions that have daily scandals of abuse, molestation, rape, incest and child-brides are tolerated.
Even the same scriptures they quote against gays tolerate things like rape or incest in less quoted verses.
It's good to be concerned about children - but where are the priorities?
Are openly gay people a real source for concern, or just a deflection?
When you mark something as a social problem then surely you should focus on where the danger does actually exist (religion), and not where it's thankfully largely lacking (gay parenting)!

To say we shouldn't have gay parenting because the children may be mocked is like saying we shouldn't have interracial marriages.
Mixed-race kids may also be mocked, and historically they've even been stolen by the state, or given to another family.

Being gay has never been entirely unacceptable to society, and with legal changes in some countries it is far more acceptable than a lot of other eccentric parental behavior.

reply to post by libertytoall


I saw it there, at that point it all turns in: you are throwing your tantrum too now, because you have no right at all to speak about someone elses life.
I would have been better off with a gay couple than with the broken family I had to grow in...

I only read the opening post and the first couple of replies. Has anyone made a reference to that one Lady GaGa song yet?

Anyway, threadstarter, make no mistake; it occurs both ways; you're not wrong. I mean, for some, it is apparent from a very early age. For others, though, it's much more complicated. Humans such as myself are constantly questioning who they themselves are, and constantly second-guessing themselves in such ways that makes everything about them unclear, at times even sexuality. That may sound like puberty to you, but it's still more complicated than that.

People like that (there are more than you might think, but still not very many in comparison [as far as I can tell]) can go either way, or both ways, and it would be a legitimate choice. It would end up something like an acquired taste.

In short, there isn't really a definite answer. The reason is that each human is different in the way we think and feel. What can be said of even a majority may not hold true for whatever percentage is left. Seeing as how I'm myself, and not everyone else, I can't really say for sure how other people think of this, but I do know that everyone's different in that way.

Make of that what you will, I guess, but does it really matter? Homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, cowsexual; who cares? People are people, yeah?

Originally posted by itsthetooth
I think there is more at work here. Setting aside any discrimination, it is odd that two of the same sex want to have sexual relations. We don't see anything else on the planet doing this but there are reasons as well. The dingo does with his fake penis but thats different. I have odd beliefs. I think that man was brougth to earth and not originally from here. It expalins so much in our dealings with everything else on this planet. To complicate things, there were also other things brought here from other planets, transpermia. Anyhow, I feel that gay tendencies are a form of acting out from being rejected and not being happy on this planet. This planet is rejecting us, and will always reject us as it is not our home. When you have a planet do this to you, and you are stuck here as you have no way to get off this rock and get home, then you act out. Drugs, smoking, being gay and so on. This might sound odd but it is a small part of a very large picture.

Perhaps you didn't read my earlier post (back on page 43) where I provided information and a link to a legitimate source that shows that more that 1500 species in the animal kingdom, besides homo sapiens, actively practice both homo and bi sexuality. The premise of homosexuality is only odd if you are looking at it from a biblical or dogmatically-induced perspective. If you honestly believe that being gay and substance abuse are somehow categorically equivalent, you should really spend some time doing some independent investigation to widen your very-small "large picture".

Originally posted by libertytoall
Personally I don't care who wants to be gay. Have a wonderful life together. The only time I care is when you add children into the equation. I believe children need a male and female roll as their parents in order to have a healthy stable upbringing. If being gay truly is genetic than you are only creating more people who are likely to be gay. That's not a bad thing until it's 500 years from now and humankind is on the verge of extinction. I am always willing to change my opinion if information warrants it but their is no study to go on and I'm not the type that would risk even one child's future in order to find out how they would fair emotionally.

You, sir, are an ignorant bigot. And don't come to this conclusion lightly - I've read your posts. I understand that, regardless of any evidence presented, you will likely continue being an ignorant bigot until the day you expire and return to the Earth. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but you should be aware that your words portray you as an ugly and vile individual. You claim that there are "no studies to go on" regarding children raised by homosexual couples. Wrong. More than 15 independent university studies have been done on that very topic. Check out www.webmd.com... for a summary of those studies. Here's the conclusion: "The vast consensus of all the studies shows that children of same-sex parents do as well as children whose parents are heterosexual in every way. In some ways children of same-sex parents actually may have advantages over other family structures." The arguments for everything you have said in these posts have been disproven and fly in the face of logic and intellect. Spend some time reading something other than the Bible for your "facts" if you're going to continue talking to the grown-ups, because you sound like someone who's still clutching to the idea that the world is flat.

reply to post by draco49

Perhaps you didn't read my earlier post (back on page 43) where I provided information and a link to a legitimate source that shows that more that 1500 species in the animal kingdom, besides homo sapiens, actively practice both homo and bi sexuality.

I doubt very seriously that there are same sex species out there trying to make offspring that way. Humans are the only ones I have ever heard of that have sex for the enjoyment.

The premise of homosexuality is only odd if you are looking at it from a biblical or dogmatically-induced perspective

Neither, I'm actually looking at it from the simple perspective that women have vagainas and men have penises.

If you honestly believe that being gay and substance abuse are somehow categorically equivalent, you should really spend some time doing some independent investigation to widen your very-small "large picture".

I have never heard of anything that proves the idea to be wrong.

You, sir, are an ignorant bigot. And don't come to this conclusion lightly - I've read your posts. I understand that, regardless of any evidence presented, you will likely continue being an ignorant bigot until the day you expire and return to the Earth. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but you should be aware that your words portray you as an ugly and vile individual. You claim that there are "no studies to go on" regarding children raised by homosexual couples.

I'm sorry but I wasn't aware of any same sex situations that produced offspring.

The arguments for everything you have said in these posts have been disproven and fly in the face of logic and intellect. Spend some time reading something other than the Bible for your "facts" if you're going to continue talking to the grown-ups, because you sound like someone who's still clutching to the idea that the world is flat.

I never claimed that same sex couples aren't capable of raising kids, all I'm saying is there is obviously a scientific reason they aren't able to produce children without the opposite sex. Why can't you address that little pesky fact. There is only one reason why it takes a man and a woman to produce off spring, because thats the way its suppose to be. I don't however believe we are living on our intended home planet. I believe we were placed here. It is possible that this stigma being addressed is not even a passing thought originally. I also never claimed that I completly believe in a creator, nor do I believe in evolution. I believe in intervention, which makes this mess your addressing stupid and pointless because the problems we deal with here from day to day, were never suppose to be problems to begin with. Thats my story and I"m sticking to it. Good luck to you, and yours, and anyone your raising.

reply to post by itsthetooth


What does reproduction have to do with anything?

reply to post by mountaingirl1111

The thing is, it isn't just humans. it's animals, too. The famous "gay" penguins at the Toronto zoo had displayed homosexual behavior and the zookeepers there decided to separate them in order for them to "breed". So, not only does the animal kingdom have homosexual members, but they also have to deal with humans making sure they breed, not love. More examples, though still more to be found using a quick search

I think the thing here that is going to be really hard to get to the bottom of, is if these animals know and are purposlty doing what it looks like they are doing.

For example in the human species same sex will seek out same sex as a preference. Are the animals possibly doing simply to be playful, or is it possible they are just horney and trying to releive some stress, and no opposites have been around or available for a long time. Is it possible they don't even know the other is the same sex. There are many possibilities, which is why I take the attituide that I do. I heard all about the study where a pheromone was able to turn flys gay. Even when you get to this stage, there is still many questions, like do they realize exactly what they are doing. With the flys probably not, as they were males but all made to smell like females. Even getting past that the question comes up if they are just having fun or actually trying to produce offspring. There is simply no way to know these facts.

I would believe that two penguines are pheromone confused long before I could believe two of the same sex are claimed to be in love. We don't have any way to prove they are in love to begin with. They might go through all the signs of love but if pheromones are at work, they could just be confused.