Explain to me how Homosexuals are "born that way".

Originally posted by Lionhearte
Their "expression" of love is what is known as LUST. The Greeks have 5 different words for love, and in English, we only have one. Lust isn't love, lust is the desire, the sexual preference, etc. I simply want to know where that attraction originated from - if not hereditary, then where?

If you think that only your love is love, I feel sorry for you. I won't lose sleep over it but it concerns me that you are trying to define love only by your own experiences.

"Kinsey Scale"

0-Exclusively heterosexual
1-Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2-Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3-Equally heterosexual and homosexual
4-Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5-Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
6-Exclusively homosexual
X-Non-sexual

I pointed this out before and I think some get it, but others need a little more detail. The fact of the matter is The MAJORITY of people on planet earth fall within the middle (2-4) The fringe is being 100% hetero, or homo. (excluding X) There have been over 200 different scaling systems used to determain sexuality since the Kinsey scale so it could incorporate most if not all of the traits. (nothings been perfect though) So for simplistic reasons The Kinsey scale is a good jumping off point.

The biggest problem in the hetero/homo argument is almost always the lack of understanding that it's not one side or another, but instead a scale (or curve)that incorporates all these aspects. With that understanding, being born homosexual is completely normal, and choosing to be homosexual later on in life is also completely normal. There is nothing shameful about this, this is Human Sexuality 101. YAY Science !!

Also.... Not being sexually aroused dosn't automaticlly make you heterosexual. Sexual arousal is a determining chemical reaction based on many different factors. Alot of people are turned on by undergarments, this dosn't automaticlly mean that they want to have intercourse with textiles. (You might, but thats a different argument all together involving fetishes) It's an association, and the majority if not all of arousal is associated with mental 1+1=2 connections.

Lastly.... I get the whole religious argument, but in a scientific context it's quite flawed. Plus taking sexual advise from a person who vowed not to have sex, is the equililent to taking marrage advise from single friends who have never had a relationship.

So let people be, and enjoy divesity

reply to post by mayabong


It's called New Testament for a reason. Metaphorically it's like upgrading and adding onto business practices & policies.

If it doesn't click, then just know that I'm not going to do the research for you. There's a lot of free and available information, and since it is your life I won't do the changing on your behalf.

Originally posted by Debunkology

Originally posted by Lionhearte
Yes. I do agree with everything God says, in both the Old and New Testament. I agree, there is some saucy stuff in there that I'm sure you don't understand.

Lionhearte. Sorry this is slightly off topic. But since you think all sexual relations are sinful. I think you should study about your god more. The fact that he wasn't the only god, and that infact he was a BAAL god.

Says so...... in the bible.

It's okay. You can U2U me if you want to discuss that, I do have a response to it - but to keep it on topic a bit, yes, it's true, I do believe all sexual relations are sinful, in ANY form - this means that, I, a victim to sexual perversion as well, am as guilty as homosexuals, as rapists, as adulterers, whatever. That means, according to the Old Testament, I am to be stoned to death.

Oh, of course, that's IF I lived under the law, like the Jews. I'm a Christian. Jesus fulfilled the law for me, and forgave all of my sins, and the sins of anyone reading this, whether you believe in him or not. Of course, he can't forgave the unforgivable sin - which is not believing in Christ.

But yes.. U2U me.

reply to post by AreYouSatisfied


Then why reply if it doesn't matter to you?
Your disgust at science is your own failure.
If you live by subjective rules you can never use any due diligence to use a critical thought process to find answers to ANYTHING.
If it disgusts you it's because you choose to remain ignorant of it.
In a society that denigrates the male and empowers the girlyman I am not offended by your disgust. It simply was brought to the table empty handed.

reply to post by Garfee


Doesn't everybody do the same thing about everything they learn? I mean, that about includes the information they are exposed to and the manner of which they are presented.

I thought 'homosexual supporters' were lovers of the right to choose and what to believe. As it stands, your hostility demonstrates the opposite. Not to mention selfishness in your part.


you don't care if anyone learns, you just care about winning an argument. At least the OP is humble and sincere about it.

reply to post by Lionhearte


Here is the best answer I can supply you with:


I'm a straight male. 40 years old. Even if I had every gun on the face of this planet aimed at my head I do not believe I could CHOOSE to be sexually aroused by another man.

When judging other people people use what they know as a basis for comparison, they use what they know of themselves as a basis for comparison.

If anyone says that homosexuality is a choice, then the ONLY way they are not lying to you/us would have to be that at least one time in their lives they looked at a person of the same sex and thought "maybe?". Unless they themselves had to make a choice, they are lying to you and have no basis in reality for their opinion whatsoever. No experience in the realm of which they are choosing to share their opinion about.

Explain to me how it is a choice.

*sigh* I wrote a few things and hit reply and it didn't go through.

So I'll just say one thing before heading down for supper.

Every fetus begins as a female. Not YET proven in Humans, as far as I know but it has been proven by studying rats. Like anything else that doesn't come out right, we call it a mutation. Only difference is, the person is born with the wrong body.

And this is just for those who firmly believe they are gay. Enough to go out of their way for a gender change. Like that person on the Mrs.Universe contest that I'm sure you all remember.

reply to post by AreYouSatisfied


Your absolutely right, I don't have an issue with people being gay, bi, hetro at all....it is a deeper issue...trust, honesty.....know one has the right to entangle other people's lives, based on a LIE....if your gay, you don't get to have a spouse and children, unless FULL disclosure is given to the partner, and they agree.....

I'm here to tell you very few women would agree to this deal, and I'm sure that goes for men too...maybe a gay women that "wants" a family...and then rejects her husband sexually when she has that? It's just not right or fair, to become the "caretaker" so to speak of another person's sexuality based on a lie, this is not something that should be taken lightly in my opinion.

reply to post by AreYouSatisfied


opps

Originally posted by Garfee
I care why you care because you're the one knowingly rasing such a volitile issue on this site, knowing full well there are idiot bigoted pigs who will drag the hate out for pages and pages - I think you did it for laughs no matter what you say.

This isn't your thread, mate - you just started it.

So, why do you care about the origins? I haven't see one single post of yours in fifeen pages asking haters to be on topic.

You're either a liar or a hater.

It's an issue for those who make it an issue. If you have a problem with somebody being an "idiot bigoted pig", then report them and let the admins deal with them.

And oh, you do? You haven't seen a single one of my posts in 15 pages because, as I said on PAGE 3, I was going to sleep. Now I'm awake. Cut me some slack, you can clearly see me posting these last few pages. I haven't had the chance to go through all of these pages, because quite frankly I didn't know it was going to get so much attention. I honestly figured 2-3 pages at most.

But, you know what? Believe whatever you want to believe about me, it's illogical and filled with assumptions, but if that sort of thing suits you, go for it.

reply to post by Garfee


If you feel love is only based on sex, that is just sad.
Like he stated earlier that the greeks had 5 words for love (hehe, I thought it was 4) and eros is the least of them.
Why is lust elevated in todays society as real love? That in itself is a sad commentary on western society today is it not?

I respect gays, as I do have a couple of friends that are gay. So I accept them as the way they are. Doesn't matter whether if they were born that way or if they chose to be that way I don't give a hoot. Not a big issue here for me. If I were married and had a couple of kids that were gay. I would love them just as much if they were straight. Simple as that, btw there is no sin for what you can't control, we all can't be perfect.

Because one does not choose their genetic makeup. Humans are animals, and homosexuality happens in the animal kingdom all the time. We agree that animals other than humans do not make conscious decisions regarding morality don't we? Therefore they are making decisions based on instinct due to their genetics, to sum it all up in a nice definition...

Therefore if it is "natural" it is not a choice one makes, but rather genetic wiring that causes one to be attracted to members of the same sex. I don't particularly endorse homosexuality, and I would not partake in it, but that is simply because my brain is wired differently, due to my genetics. It is rather simple really, and a quick 5 minute search via Google would have explained it much better than I can.

Originally posted by Manunnaki
The egg carrier has gay people in her family. The more children she has the higher the tolerance level the womb has to one of the gender chemicals ie testosterone or estragen. the more children she has example sons the more likely the youngest is going to be homosexual. Also it depends on how much estragen the male son is exposed to in the womb. If he's exposed to alot of estragen most likely his mind will be female.

I was going to POST what your already wrote after Reading this ..

For to explain this devoted Christian ( OP ) & the Rest that dont Understand ...

Here are so Legit Sites..

What the Gay Brain Looks Like
3.bp.blogspot.com...

Scientists at the Karolinska Institute studied brain scans of 90 gay and straight men and women, and found that the size of the two symmetrical halves of the brains of gay men more closely resembled those of straight women than they did straight men. In heterosexual women, the two halves of the brain are more or less the same size. In heterosexual men, the right hemisphere is slightly larger. Scans of the brains of gay men in the study, however, showed that their hemispheres were relatively symmetrical, like those of straight women, while the brains of homosexual women were asymmetrical like those of straight men. The number of nerves connecting the two sides of the brains of gay men were also more like the number in heterosexual women than in straight men. Read more: www.time.com...

Girl Brain, Boy Brain?

The two are not the same, but new work shows just how wrong it is to assume that all gender differences are hardwired
www.scientificamerican.com...

Study Says Brains of Gay Men and Women Are Similar

Brain scans provide evidence that sexual orientation is biological

By Nikhil Swaminathan | June 16, 2008
www.scientificamerican.com...

A Gay Man’s Brain Looks a Lot Like a Straight Woman’s Brain
blogs.discovermagazine.com...

Well the Study of the Brain of Homosexual Men show evidence tat they are more like Strait Woman
and Lesbian Woman show that they are more like Men


Well that the Physical explanation but..... what about the Spiritual explanation you know the Spirit the Soul
The Reincarnation Kind of thing ... the Mishap The Soul Gender ...

I would more Likely to Except that Kind of Explanation ... Also.....


and Seeing the OP is a Christian what about spirituality that that has a collision with this Great find of Science ,, The Persecution of Gay lesbians by Christians in the Past .. is Legendary

Ironically The Black Suited Clemency Oathed Men with a white Collar in a Branch of Christianity is Also Legendary of Sex Offense of Male Children ... A Person That also has a Occupation of Joining Oppisate Sex Couples of Marriage and on occasion act as Councillor of Family Marriage Problems and a Person to Tale the Tale of SIN!! is Beyond Me .. Why Would Someone would do that ... when the Person does not have or Will EVER have the XP Experience...

I would think the gays and lesbians should be as equals too occupations and family life,,,

If they would want to join the Military Fine ... The Will face the Consequences as a Strait Man... in Battle

One of the Most Known Famous Legendary Warriors Soldiers in the Greek Class of the Ancient World

Were The Spartans

Had Homosexual Relationships within themselves a Bond for Fighting that you can see on the Web...

Just Maybe if the World was Educated Enough and Learn about the Evidence of the Make Up of Homosexual Brain is like a Strait Females Brain

as the Probable Cause is the Lack of Estrogen in Female and the Lack of Testosterone in Males in the Stages of development within the Womb

This has go me Thinking in a way when you Study of the Early Stages !! of Termites & Ants

of what they would come to be .. a Worker a Solder a Carpenter(Ant) etc.. in the Lack of a Chemical or a substance of Food


when you think about it we HUMANS ACT... much more like Insects then Primates but with Free Will...

when you look at humans of different Sizes, Shapes, Strength, Agility and Mentality within the Same Race.



as above poster( Above ) has said a Homosexuality is all around the Animal Kingdom ...

I’m more of a lurker here, but I would like to chime in.
I have a genetic trait called albinism. With such, both parents must have the exact same recessive gene in order for the trait to appear. Even then, that does not guarantee that the albinism will manifest. The chances for this trait to switch is 1:100,000. That being said, is homosexuality and heterosexuality based upon a gene? Well, it would make the gene very rare indeed; considering we are talking about the population size of approx. 7,000,000,000 people. Little more chemical in the brain than the other? I would say it's plausible. Scientifically, it could be argued that a little more estrogen or testosterone could make a person go either way.

Now, I have met men who are feminate, but are very much hetro and some macho men who are homo. It is terrible how society takes a sensitive boy and completely destroys his self image by saying, "You must like boys, and you’re gay." As well as, a female who is tomboyish and is expressing her independence and enjoying all the best things in childhood. Saying, "You must be bi or a lesbian." Society can be very cruel to those who do not conform to its preconceived notions.

- off topic note
I am a follower in Christ. To all of my non-Christian brothers and sisters, please indulge me... Jesus died for all of us and we are all sinners. Not one of us is better than the other. To my Christian brothers and sisters, we must witness with love, and measure ourselves by those scales.

Originally posted by Lionhearte

However, I have a sincere, honest question in response to the claim LGBTs and LGBT-defenders make - that they are, for some reason, born that way. For example - we wouldn't discriminate someone who was born with a disease or something, because it isn't their fault, they had no choice, they were born that way.

So, we've all heard that argument before. First off - to be born in a certain way, we are talking about genetics, correct? So, somebody with a heart disease, possibly received that disease because of a parent, an uncle, a grandparent, etc. It was in their family - that is why you hear the commercials that say "If your family has a history of heart problems", etc, etc.

Now, here's where I'm confused. You get your genetics from your BIOLOGIC parents, correct? So.. how do homosexuals "receive" these supposed "inherent" genes.. if they got them from HETEROSEXUAL parents?

It is a proven fact, undeniably so, that there has never, EVER been a case of a homosexual couple having a biologic child - they can adopt, sure. But that child got his genetics from his BIOLOGICAL parents.

So, LGBTs and LGBT defenders, please answer this for me - where does the gene come from that makes a homosexual "born that way"?

ill answer you again, and finish this thread.
all of your questions can be asked of left handed people.

lefties are born that way and its not a disease, even tho they are a small portion of the population.
we have not found a "gene" for left handedness yet, but know its from birth as babies prefer to reach with left or right hand.
right handed parents can have left handed children.

"where does the gene come from that makes a homosexual "born that way"?" where is the gene for left handedness?

if genetics determines something so simple as to which hand you prefer, would something so complex as sexuality not also be determined by genetics?

Originally posted by strongerthandirt
"Kinsey Scale"

0-Exclusively heterosexual
1-Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2-Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3-Equally heterosexual and homosexual
4-Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5-Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
6-Exclusively homosexual
X-Non-sexual

Alfred Kinsey. The guy who interviewed nine people who had sexual intercourse with children. Often accused of corrupting his own data???

What I'd advice people who read into these so called "Studies" like it's the bible, is research the people who actually create them FIRST.

reply to post by Lionhearte


Why did you do it then? Knowing what your initial post would become? Why are you asking people who have no clue about it?

OP, I noticed in your original post that you made it clear that your love homosexuals DESPITE YOUR AVATAR. Buddy, I want you to know that we, the NON-Christians, know that you Christians are GOOD PEOPLE (some of the very best in the whole world) who are taught not to judge people. I realize that many charlatans have given you guys a bad reputation amongst the ignorant. HOWEVER, anyone with critical thinking skills KNOWS that Christians, in general, are WONDERFUL PEOPLE who love their neighbors. And I know that it's not said a lot but BELIEVE ME--your neighbors LOVE YOU TOO! My own dear parents are Christians and they are the finest people that anyone could meet. GOD BLESS THE CHRISTIANS. YOU ARE AMAZING.