Christianity lasts because...

reply to post by CaptainLJB


Creation according to the bible even in it's very abstract form verses spontaneous assimilation of life in it's unproven and controversial form is the question .
Evolution has not been proven , it still remains a theory . With the discovery of DNA things fell apart for the latter theory especially since the single celled Amoeba has much more DNA information than a human cell . Are we to say that we have degenerated down from a single celled Amoeba . Again space is inhospitable to living cells and the earth was a red hot ball at one time . The earth was a sterile environment like a pet-re` disk both on land and sea . The scientific idea is to put amino acids and other things in so to speak a big blender throw in a couple of million years and anything is possible . And they basically dare you to live that long and prove them wrong . As far as any organism evolving I haven't heard of anything proven . Mutations and genetic engineering yes .
One thing that has been overlooked is that when God said let the waters bring forth life and then the earth (land) bring forth life they are two different creations that came from single sources and may have had the same mechanics as what we call evolution . But!!!!! then God said let us create man in our image . And therefore there is no tie to the first two creations and thats why we have found no missing link . The last creation was directly handled by God . The simplistic verbiage in the bible about the creations had to be understandable through out the ages and even now we wouldn't be able to understand it .

reply to post by SimonPeter


He was creating matter and then manipulating it with nothing but his will. When Yeshua picked up a handful of dirt and spat into it and mixed the mud into the dead eyes of the man who had been born blind at birth to fix his dead eyes, he was manipulating matter on a molecular level with just his will, he was symbolizing what he did with creation and the adama. He always showed people who he was in everything he did, some believed but most did not. Christianity exists today because of the ones who believed in him.

Originally posted by WarJohn
...there are no dates for when its prophecies based in the bible are supposed to happen.

How long can a religion last?

Think about it.

If prophecies came with dates, the world would have gotten over so-called holy books, if nothing of the prophecy came true.

If nothing can stop a prophecy, then why not state a time when?

Ha! You guys are too smart than to remain believing some book men wrote long ago.

Bible had vague things so that it would ALMOST APPEAR TO BE that things written in it were coming true.

If prophecies are real, then why be so vague? Why not be SPECIFIC?

Haha! Again, you guys are way too smart to be suckers to books deemed holy by people long ago.

In my eyes church failed first... Followed by religion... Followed by all so-called holy books.

But what do you truely think? The mind was truely designed to be lead astray.

You have implied that anyone who doesn't believe in the bible is (too) smart and that those who believe in the bible are "suckers". Can I safely assume that you don't believe in "unconditional love"? Why would anyone hold a group of people to a standard that they themselves don't believe in? Isn't God looking for those who have integrity?

Mark 13:32-37 -“However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. And since you don’t know when that time will come, be on guard! Stay alert! The coming of the Son of Man can be illustrated by the story of a man going on a long trip. When he left home, he gave each of his servants instructions about the work they were to do, and he told the gatekeeper to watch for his return. You, too, must keep watch! For you don’t know when the master of the household will return—in the evening, at midnight, before dawn, or at daybreak. Don’t let him find you sleeping when he arrives without warning. I say to you what I say to everyone: Watch for him!”

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Good Post . I agree fully !

reply to post by sacgamer25

This is the King James Version account of 2nd Timothy chapter 3 verse 1 thru 7

1.This know also,that in the last days perilous times will come .
2 . For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous ,boasters , proud,blasphemers ,disobedient, to parents , thankful and unholy.

3. Without natural affections, truce breakers, false accusers,incontinent, fierce , despisers of those
that are good .
4. Traitors , heady, high minded, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God .
5.Having a form of God but denying the power there of from such turn away.
6.For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lust .
7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth .

I find this scripture to be astonishingly accurate . There has always been people like this but here lately this scripture applies to a much greater percentage of society . Morals now have more to do with money and what you can get away with with out going to jail .

reply to post by SimonPeter


This has always been going on. It is just your perspective if you think it is getting worse.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Christianity exists today because of the ones who believed in him.

No, Christianity exists because you believe in the men that wrote stories ABOUT him, and you trust that they were truly inspired by God and made no ERRORS with writing the scriptures.

reply to post by SimonPeter


How did you get from "evolution is false" to "God did it.". Proving that evolution is wrong is not proof that God did it...

reply to post by SimonPeter


Which is more plausible...

The Evolution of single-celled organisms to considerably more advanced animals over the course of millions of years. And it's only a bloody coincidence that apes share some 99% of our DNA.

Or some super-being which not only created itself but also the universe, coming along and snapping his fingers and making Mankind appear out of thin air exactly how it is today--For the sake of Worshiping and Fearing Him.
Because He gets his jollies out of it all and makes it his hobby of sorting souls...

On the other hand, just forget that I asked. I mean, I just Don't Want an answer because I know what it's going to be and I don't want to hear it. It's be like asking a Christian why he is a Christian and not a Muslim and he'll say "I follow the True religion of the True God"... While if I ask the same of a Muslim he'll give me the same answer. Except maybe he'll add that 9/11 is Proof that he has the Right God because Jesus apparently was out to lunch at the time or a weaker god or some such nonsense... And the Christian will say that his ancestors killed more Muslims because God was on Their side, the real one...

And people gape at me when I say that Religion Is Evil.

reply to post by CaptainLJB


You have a problem if there is no God their is no evil or evil . Those are God's description of morality .

reply to post by Ericthenewbie

I have substantiated my claim several times in my previous posts.

No you haven't. Your original claim that a certain person named Confucius was an "atheist that is 2500 years old" remains unsubstantiated. All you have done is talk about his teachings...and pass it off as "evidence" that he was an atheist. Laughable.

It's not my fault ...

Well...its not your fault that Confucius never stated a lacked of belief in any deity, (not just the God of the bible.) Because if he had done so, you would have presented that evidence as soon as I asked for it.

Tough luck.

reply to post by Ericthenewbie


BTW, Here's something that you might find interesting....

The concept of Heaven (Tian, 天) is found pervasively in Confucianism. Confucius had an intimate trust in Heaven and believed that Heaven overrules human efforts, that he was carrying out the will of Heaven, and so Heaven will not allow its servant, Confucius, to be killed until his work is done. Many attributes of Heaven were delineated in his Analects.

en.wikipedia.org...


So.... you still think Confucius was an atheist?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You are assuming that the use of the word Heaven is the same as you use it – a better translation might be universe or cosmos

Buddhists/Taoists/Confucianists – don’t have a theistic gods like Christianity or Islam so they are a sort of atheist religion/spiritual path

if you see mention of Heaven or gods when reading about them then you might do better to think of them as archetypes and forces

The core of Confucianism is humanism
en.wikipedia.org...

Humanism
en.wikipedia.org...
Humanism is an approach in study, philosophy, world view or practice that focuses on human values and concerns, attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Heaven has nothing to do with "God" in Chinese philosophy. You are blinded by the biblical view of "heaven" which is totally different.

reply to post by arpgme

Heaven has nothing to do with "God" in Chinese philosophy.

Wrong. The ancient Chinese "worshipped" Heaven.
en.wikipedia.org...

Also look up "Shangdi"

The Ancient Chinese believed in a non-corporeal entity called Shangdi, an omnipotent, just, and monotheistic supreme being. Over time, Shangdi became synonymous with Tian (天 lit. "sky"), or Heaven.

The fact that the chinese "heaven" is different from the Christian one does not change the fact that Confucius held strongly theistic beliefs.

Confucius had an intimate trust in Heaven and believed that Heaven overrules human efforts, that he was carrying out the will of Heaven

(from wiki)

Now tell me... are you an atheist?
Do you believe that "heaven" (as confucius understood it) overrules your efforts? Why not?
So, can you truly say Confucius did not possess any theistic beliefs?

reply to post by racasan

You are assuming that the use of the word Heaven is the same as you use it – a better translation might be universe or cosmos

Its not just "universe" or "cosmos".

Like I mentioned to the poster earlier...the ancient Chinese "worshipped" Heaven.
en.wikipedia.org...

And in context of Confucius... he believed "heaven", or as you say the "cosmos" ... overruled human efforts, that he was carrying out the will of Heaven,

Would you consider Confucius to be atheist???

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by racasan

 

You are assuming that the use of the word Heaven is the same as you use it – a better translation might be universe or cosmos

Its not just "universe" or "cosmos".

Well yes the translation is tricky but it’s still not used in the way you use the word

Like I mentioned to the poster earlier...the ancient Chinese "worshipped" Heaven.
en.wikipedia.org...

The ancient Chinese might well have "worshipped" all sorts of things but I thought you are asking about Confucius?

And in context of Confucius... he believed "heaven", or as you say the "cosmos" ... overruled human efforts, that he was carrying out the will of Heaven,

Would you consider Confucius to be atheist???

Theism – the idea that there is a personal and present God that made the universe and humans and who is judge jury and punisher of those humans (or the bit that’s left over when the body dies) – right?

Since nether Buddhists/Taoists/Confucianists (and probably many more religions) don’t believe in that kind of god(s) then they must be atheist – right?

There is nothing in the works of Confucius that would in any way suggest he was a theist – he might have been some sort of deist (or an eastern version of that idea)

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Oh, I didn't know that. Very interesting. I did know that they worshiped heaven, but I did not know that it was associated with Shangdi (God), I thought that was an idea later adopted from Western religions. Very interesting. I wonder when and why did they stop associating Tian (Heaven/Sky) with Shangdi (God)...

Originally posted by racasan
Theism – the idea that there is a personal and present God that made the universe and humans and who is judge jury and punisher of those humans (or the bit that’s left over when the body dies) – right?

Since nether Buddhists/Taoists/Confucianists (and probably many more religions) don’t believe in that kind of god(s) then they must be atheist – right?

Shangdi (Archaic: Tian) is non-corporeal , omnipotent, supreme, and just. So it is monotheistic.

reply to post by racasan

The ancient Chinese might well have "worshipped" all sorts of things but I thought you are asking about Confucius?

I was discussing Confucius with another poster who confidently asserted that Confucius as an atheist... when in reality, Confucius held beliefs pertaining to ancient chinese "heaven worship".
Heaven worship itself originates in the concept of a monotheistic deity called Shang-di.

My point is that Confucius could NOT have been an atheist because he was inclined towards the Chinese concept of "heaven"....and had an an intimate trust in Heaven and believed that Heaven overrules human efforts, that he was carrying out the will of Heaven .

There is nothing in the works of Confucius that would in any way suggest he was a theist

Actually, Confucius refers to something called "Mandate of Heaven"... a concept that acknowledges the existence of a higher power.
en.wikipedia.org...

As best I can tell, Christianity is a failed concept that most of the world considers as ignorance. It hasn't caught on in the world and it is in decline. It is destructive by causing wars, and it won't be appreciated.

People find there is more value in going hiking and not sitting around watching some ill informed person wanting money for a drama production.

Getting back to nature keeps those that abandon church happier and healthier. Most of the young kids don't care about religion.

Religion is just pagan nonsense, it is that corrupt of reality.

Nature is a better cathedral, a higher truth.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Well the use of the idea of the ‘will of heaven’ in way Confucius used it is more like how astrology is seen in the west – you know like if Pluto is in your 7th house then you are going to meet a tall dark stranger – sort of thing

You have to discriminate between what theists, deists believe

Something like:
Theism = a man plants a tree and cares for the three and gathers the fruit (and for some strange reason tortures some fruit for ever and ever!)

Deism = a man plants a tree and walk away and lets the tree just get on with it

Pantheism = the man is the tree

Atheism = well I can see a tree but I think you made all that other stuff up

reply to post by Ericthenewbie


I was referring to your post about thinking that it is all about getting rewarded after death. The security blanket from the first page. It's not a security blanket. The Bible is clear about what happens at death. The body dies, consciousness dies and the spirit (IE: Greek pnuema or breath) returns to God who gave it.