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Is anyone else seeing a 'Decline to Sign' campaign like this?

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posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 05:13 PM
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These commercials have been running for awhile now in my area of Missouri and frankly, I've been too busy with school to really give it much thought aside from the passing flash of annoyance. However, after some time to consider it more, this is so wrong I wonder why it isn't literally criminal. Here is the commercial someone screen recorded.



A quick piece of background for Non-Americans who may be totally confused by the issue and outrage here. One of the core methods an American citizen can address their Government to correct a grievance is by peition like this. Anyone can start one..and 99% utterly fail and never get far enough to really discuss. It's an uphill battle, and it's supposed to be. If one gets enough signatures for whatever petition is being attempted, that issue then gets on our State Ballot for a direct go/no-go vote by the people directly. It's a powerful and critical tool of our system and for it's people to have some connection to what is happening in our name.

These commercials aren't simply riding the cause of whatever petition their made about. Apparently they don't have the courage to even NAME the issue they're annoyed with and I shouldn't have to background their organization in the ad's fine print just to learn what side of what issue they're on to bring about this ad.

The point and problem is, they aren't fighitng ONE issue. In a selfish 'winner take all' attitude of winning THEIR OWN little issue, whatever it may be, they appeal to the easily played masses to outright refuse to participate or even take the time to LISTEN to *ANYONE* attempting a petition for ballot issues.

Why there isn't an outright law to make this sort of undermining of our system an actual criminal offense is beyond me. I wouldn't say a word if they just named their cause and made their call to action to be against THAT CAUSE...not the WHOLE SYSTEM. This part of our system is among the only remaining for a lowly citizen to engage and and that still works to any real degree.


Anyone else seeing these? Anyone agree this is taking self interest for an issue to new lows??




posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 05:20 PM
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I was going to suggest a petition to stop people from putting out ads like this, but my TV told me that I shouldn't sign any petitions so I doubt it will get many signatures.

In all seriousness, I haven't seen these ads in my area yet but I don't watch a lot of TV. It is disturbing that it is just blindly targeting petitions, what is next, 'Decline to Protest?'



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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Definately see the problems in this for instance people are lobbying to make the word "illegal" illegal when referencing to illegal immigrants.

That with enough people who signed a petition be put on a state ballot to be voted on.


Haven't seen those here in Indiana yet.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 05:27 PM
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This is happening all over the US. Just a case in point,and by no means am I advocating any opinion on the subject in the article,Just the means,and the underlining players,and purpose.


A coalition of groups supporting same-sex marriage is asking for volunteers to help defeat an effort to make same-sex marriage unconstitutional in California. Equality for All, a coalition of LGBT and allied civil rights groups, is launching a "Decline to Sign" campaign to discourage people from signing petitions that support putting an anti-gay marriage initiative on the November ballot.


'Decline to sign' campaign launched


AGENDA AGENDA AGENDA.

Its better to keep America in a perpetual "dumbing down" existence,then to have it awake.

S&F


edit on 28-4-2012 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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Sometimes we need to fear what our fellow citizens will agree to due to ignorance and a desire to fit in.




posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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Once again we see the effects of the war on education and the anti-intellectualisim in america...

"No don't sign, don;t even read it"

How about we trust that when asked people would use their own judgement...



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
Sometimes we need to fear what our fellow citizens will agree to due to ignorance and a desire to fit in.


Thanks for bringing that to share. If the circumstances weren't so tragic, I'd find the whole thing funny somehow. The almost gleeful enthusiasm to sign anything that 'sounds good' is a rather disturbing thing. I believe your video is considerably worse than the 'Man on the Street' interviews Beck and Leno have been known to do. Those are just ignorant answers on a quiz. It's not lost on me that this could have as easily been 100% real and for something less humorous than water.

Thankfully..and I may not be popular saying it, but here it is. I doubt most people signing that would also be out to vote. In looking at the sub 50% voting rates for even our last couple BIG Presidential elections, the odds and numbers are against more than half of them giving it any thought after they walked away. Err....


Now before I find myself agreeing with that rather disturbing display to the point of seeming to argue against my own thread...
I'd note right about here that my solution to this problem in the video is education and an end to making people feel like doing "something"...."anything"..is better than nothing. It wouldn't be to short circuit or tell people to sign nothing....just because the idiots among us will sign anything. I suppose the video shows truth to saying doing something knowingly is better than nothing. Doing something in ignorance can certainly be WORSE than nothing at all.

edit on 28-4-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-4-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
This is happening all over the US. Just a case in point,and by no means am I advocating any opinion on the subject in the article,Just the means,and the underlining players,and purpose.


A coalition of groups supporting same-sex marriage is asking for volunteers to help defeat an effort to make same-sex marriage unconstitutional in California. Equality for All, a coalition of LGBT and allied civil rights groups, is launching a "Decline to Sign" campaign to discourage people from signing petitions that support putting an anti-gay marriage initiative on the November ballot.


'Decline to sign' campaign launched


AGENDA AGENDA AGENDA.

Its better to keep America in a perpetual "dumbing down" existence,then to have it awake.

S&F


edit on 28-4-2012 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

Well, that certainly shows it's happening elsewhere. This if baffling to me because if we follow the logic here then the petition drives to recall a bad Governor one side may not like are also squarely in the 'Decline to Sign' category. Do they somehow expect people to make the mental leap that they only mean SOME things should be declined? It isn't what is being said and heard, so the level of self defeating to this as it's considered as a whole is ..well... asinine.

Perhaps it's just a record setting level of selfish with a big serving of short sighted tossed in.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 06:13 PM
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While I agree with you that it is morally wrong to advertise telling people not to take part in a constitutionally protected process to have your voice heard, I would suppose that this is only from a moral stance rather than a legal one.

If someone can be encouraged to take part in the political process then it is a reasonable assumption freedom also maintains that people can be discouraged from taking part in the same process, so long as no threats are made or people are not somehow coerced against their will.

While they are likely a group with a particular agenda, they are in fact simply encouraging people not to sign ANY petition regardless of what that petition might be, so this thread should be looked at in only that light from the legality standpoint. Perhaps this should be countered with advertisement encouraging people to take part in all forms of political processes.

I think it is perhaps slightly misleading due to the fact the advertizement is classifying the petitioners as 'outsiders', you must ask, what message are they trying to convey? It truly appears the message is, these people who are not from Missouri and who have no idea what Missourians want or need are trying to trick you into signing something that might adversely effect you.

But the message is so sublime you cannot bar the Ad unless the special interests group asking for your signature is from Missouri, in which case they could never be considered 'outsiders.' But the problem with special interest groups is once they become large enough, regardless of where they originated, they become headquartered in Washington DC, which grants them closer proximity to the legislators in effort to make lobbying for the groups' interests easier.

However, if this particular ad's subliminal message convinces people not to sign any petition, then likely they were too ignorant to understand the issues, therefore it begs the question...Do you honestly want people who do not understand the issues signing any petition? It might be anyone's guess what might become law in that event! (After Edit: I just saw the video addition to this thread with the ignorant people banning H2O, that was horrible, and further adds emphasis to my point!)

Although this goes back to an informed citizenship, if you know the issues then, if you are approached, you will know automatically whether or not you would like to sign the petition put before you. And if you do not know all sides to that particular issue then you should defer until which time as you are able to learn more about that particular issue. Later either signing via internet or other means, to add you signature at a later date should you so desire.

My thoughts anyway, S&F for you!



edit on 28-4-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-4-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:06 PM
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Looks to me like one "target" is to get people to continually ignore and "cross off" constitutional rights and therefore assume some simply don't exist anymore.

And it seems this has something to do with those Usury interest rate guys.

We all know where That old trick hides.

The old time hock shop pawnbrokers came up with the idea of the "short term" cash loan as people were running out of things to hock.

I thought Dodd-Frank had addressed this in the law, but I do not know where it is (if it's even in the law).


this appears to be part of this ?

The effort to curb Missouri’s payday loan industry is shaping up as a David-Goliath struggle.

The little guys are the church and community activists who are collecting signatures in an effort to ask Missouri voters to limit the amount of debt the state’s short-term lending businesses can pile on consumers. Let’s hope their slingshot is in good working order.

The payday lending industry is gearing up big-time to avoid seeing Missouri go the way of Arizona and Montana, where voters approved initiative ballots limiting the annual percentage rate of a short-term loan.



PAC's ??

Last week it paid $86,000 to Axiom Strategies, the company owed by Kansas City campaign guru Jeff Roe, for duties such as strategic campaign oversight ($15,000); strategic communications ($16,000); regional operations management ($25,000); and Website design ($9,500).

Earlier this year, the payday loan industry founded a political action committee called Missourians for Equal Credit Opportunity. Records filed with the Missouri Ethics Commission show the committee was terminated last week, and a balance of $107,000 was transferred to a campaign committee of the same name.


Missouri payday lenders enlist Jeff Roe in petition fight


The old Hock Shop Usury scams have been around for a very very long time.

I wonder Who those guys really are ?

They certainly Are are "rare breed" to say the least !!










edit on Apr-28-2012 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 

You know, I honestly had not looked them up and made a point of it. I didn't want the possibility that I discovered they were on 'my side' of an issue to cloud my feelings of how wrong I find their tactic.

It's unfortunate to note, because we're guilty of this right here, but in pointing out how badly so much of the system is for not working, it makes a message like this all the easier for those who don't learn much more to believe THIS area doesn't work either. The petition process is about the only really transparent and functional part of the system that does still work, in my opinion. It takes incredible work and hoops to jump though like a night at the circus to get the petitions accepted and certified...but jeeze.. there are a lot of GOOD things which never would have seen the light of day without it.

edit on 28-4-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: minor change



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I haven't seen any commercials like that but I know that in some states you have to be a registered voter to start a petition or to be a circulator of a petition.

Sounds like a dirty scam by a dirty industry though.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


That reeks of propaganda. I feel like I'm back in the 50's and 60's again.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by links234
 

You know, I should really have clarified that point about using the term 'everyone' for running and signing petitions. You're absolutely right, it's a registered voter activity from start to finish. That's one of the most common ways for signatures to be busted from the petition and a petition to fail in being accepted. Too many people who weren't properly registered voters signing up. Now that I think about it...That is a pretty big point to clarify.



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 12:35 AM
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Thank god I'm so old and ignorant. I'll sign if I want to, and wont sign if I dont. Anyway, No one tells me what to or what not to do.



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 12:44 AM
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The irony/hypocrisy of this video... the video itself is essentially a group coming to your home and petitioning you to blindly decline signing any petitions when people come to your home with them.



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