Tide detergent contains cancer-causing chemical dioxane

I found this tidbit today and searched for any related thread and found none so here it goes.
It is claimed that Tide laundry detergent contains a cancer-causing chemical called dioxane.
After reading the link and there are lots of sub links available to anyone who might be concerned I came to the conclusion in my opinion it is true.
It seems to me now the argument is not that is causes cancer but how much is needed to actually cause cancer in people.

Well i am probably in the older group here and all my childhood I remember that tide box sitting on the shelve and it has to be one of the most recognizable labels in the world.

So I wonder as does my wife here how much over a life time is too much?
How much down the drain and into our drinking water is too much?
Remember when that once upon a time lead paint was the greatest paint ever invented and was used on everything?

Remember when asbestos was claimed to be the best protection against fire and safe for all.
Remember how DDT was the miracle of all pesticides and the end of malaria etc.
I think you get my train of thought here now I would love to see any and all input here on this thread.
The Link is below
www.wptv.com...

While there are no federal limits on what constitutes safe levels of dioxane, the Environmental Protection Agency says that dioxane may cause cancer in lab rats. A Procter and Gamble toxicologist says the amount of the chemical in Tide is well below the safety risk level. “We are many, many levels of magnitude below the levels that are considered any level of safety risk,” said Tim Long, a toxicologist for the company, in the New York Times article. This is not P&G's first run-in with dioxane. In 2010, the company changed the formula of its Herbal Essence shampoo line to reduce or eliminate dioxane. Environmental and health advocacy groups have asked Procter and Gamble to change Tide's formula. Women's Voices for the Earth has started a petition on its website calling for formula change.

I had no idea of the problem with "Herbal Essence shampoo" I If I recall correctly it was or maybe even now is a top of the line product for sales.

Here is one of the sub links from the NY Times and it really opened up our eyes here and made us think of the Corexit stuff they happily sprayed in the Gulf and probably still are.


Linky dink here below
www.epa.gov...

Hazard Summary-Created in April 1992; Revised in January 2000 1,4-Dioxane is used as a solvent. Acute (short-term) inhalation exposure to high levels of 1,4-dioxane has caused vertigo, drowsiness, headache, anorexia and irritation of the eyes, nose, throat, and lungs in humans. It may also irritate the skin. Damage to the liver and kidneys has been observed in rats chronically (long-term) exposed in their drinking water. In three epidemiologic studies on workers exposed to 1,4-dioxane, the observed number of cancer cases did not differ from the expected cancer deaths. Tumors have been observed in orally exposed animals. EPA has classified 1,4-dioxane as a Group B2, probable human carcinogen.

My thoughts are that we are wearing our clothes coated in this product, we are drinking water that this product has been introduced to, we are eating food that has been raised with water with this product in it.

To the mods I figured this was the proper place for this thread but if not do your thing and move it to what is proper.

Remember this, a little bit over a long time adds up and that applies to toxins as well as money or ??????

Regards, Iwinder

Just one more thing that's going to kill us. I think I'm just going to stick with smoking, having my ice cold beers and washing my clothes in mountain spring scented Tide...........gotta die of something right?? Hey, maybe I will wear my Tide washed clothes whilst sitting in rush hour traffic for an hour inhaling exhaust and smoking a ciggy and maybe even have a beer.......assuming I have someone else driving for me that is. Yep, that's the answer!

reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7

Thanks for the reply, I don't know if it is going to kill us or not and that is why I posted this thread.
I don't believe anything good will come out of this news but you never know, maybe its for a good "cause" as they say.
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7

Teeeeeerrrrrifffffic! Wouldn't you know, I just ordered online a box of 4 giant bottles of Tide liquid laundry detergent? Is there anything we use that is safe anymore? I have used this laundry detergent since I have been on my own, and my mother used it before me.......Great....just great!

And just because the manufacturer says they use way below the level that is considered "safe"...who can you believe any more? They all say that, whether it's radiation released into the atmosphere (all within levels safe for humans) to our food additives. It's always "well below the levels considered harmful to humans and animals."

The Indians had the right idea. Just beat your clothes with a rock! (depending upon the rock, of course!)

reply to post by Iwinder


I read something about this just yesterday. It is really disturbing because not only is Tide the only detergent that we buy, but also because it isn't exactly inexpensive either! On top of that, I read that the Procter and Gamble people have responded with something along the lines of "well, it's not that much poison".

Disgusts me!

Originally posted by jdb51
reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7

 

Teeeeeerrrrrifffffic! Wouldn't you know, I just ordered online a box of 4 giant bottles of Tide liquid laundry detergent? Is there anything we use that is safe anymore? I have used this laundry detergent since I have been on my own, and my mother used it before me.......Great....just great!

And just because the manufacturer says they use way below the level that is considered "safe"...who can you believe any more? They all say that, whether it's radiation released into the atmosphere (all within levels safe for humans) to our food additives. It's always "well below the levels considered harmful to humans and animals."

The Indians had the right idea. Just beat your clothes with a rock! (depending upon the rock, of course!)

Yep and here is a bit of my first off site quote just to back you up here,
"While there are no federal limits on what constitutes safe levels of dioxane, the Environmental Protection Agency says that dioxane may cause cancer in lab rats. A Procter and Gamble toxicologist says the amount of the chemical in Tide is well below the safety risk level. “We are many, many levels of magnitude below the levels that are considered any level of safety risk,” said Tim Long, a toxicologist "

You are very correct in your thinking.
Regards, Iwinder

My wife has been making her own detergent for a couple of years now. Works every bit as well as the name brands, sans any cancer causing dioxane, and for pennies on the dollar of what the other stuff costs.

i will edit with a link when she gets home.

Cheers!

Edit to Add:

Well, i called her and here you go:

Liquid laundry detergent for $0.01/load

Powdered laundry detergent for $0.05/load

We have tried both and have been equally satisfied. Give it a shot, it is fun to make and oh so very worth it. Compare both above to somewhere around $0.20/load for the name brand stuff.

Originally posted by makinit66
reply to post by Iwinder

 

I read something about this just yesterday. It is really disturbing because not only is Tide the only detergent that we buy, but also because it isn't exactly inexpensive either! On top of that, I read that the Procter and Gamble people have responded with something along the lines of "well, it's not that much poison".

Disgusts me!

I could not agree more with your post,
Thanks for the input.
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by Iwinder


Star and Flag to one who is awake.
I understand where you are coming from and totally agree. I also have much concern. Yeah, good for ya one min then retractions: Definitely a wishy-washy bunch . Like they truly care...

Azodicarbonamide, Flouride, and ALL the other unnecessary chemically poisoned ingredients added should be against the law...Why are they allowed?! They must have their reason..

I'd prefer being able to pick and choose my own poisons but it sure seems we are being force fed the stuff! Had read this about the Tide in past... thank you for bringing it to my attention once again...Hope you get folks attention here: I think everyone should pay heed to these things.

Originally posted by soulshn
My wife has been making her own detergent for a couple of years now. Works every bit as well as the name brands, sans any cancer causing dioxane, and for pennies on the dollar for what the other stuff costs.

i will edit with a link when she gets home.

Cheers!

edit on 4/28/12 by soulshn because: (no reason given)

Please do or if it is too late to edit post another reply with the recipe and thanks for the information.
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by SeekerLou
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Star and Flag to one who is awake.
I understand where you are coming from and totally agree. I also have much concern. Yeah, good for ya one min then retractions: Definitely a wishy-washy bunch . Like they truly care...

Azodicarbonamide, Flouride, and ALL the other unnecessary chemically poisoned ingredients added should be against the law...Why are they allowed?! They must have their reason..

I'd prefer being able to pick and choose my own poisons but it sure seems we are being force fed the stuff! Had read this about the Tide in past... thank you for bringing it to my attention once again...Hope you get folks attention here: I think everyone should pay heed to these things.

Thanks for the kind words and wisdom, much appreciated here.
On a side note we do Reverse Osmosis water here but you can only rid your self of so much junk, but we do try.
Regards, Iwinder

Well, I wish you hadn't said anything. When I smell Tide™, I look at it as someone not to go anywhere near, carnally. The smell is enough to cause gagging spasms, and indicates poor taste. Who would want to smell like that??? The whole neighborhood seems to like the stuff, as testified by the pervasive stench coming from the dryers around town.

If people that used to use Tide™ cease and desist, I'll have no idea that they used to use it, and may wind up getting close to them, except that the stink does seem to linger on the clothes for a few washes (I had something cleaned at a Cleaners who used the poison once).

Originally posted by davidmann
Well, I wish you hadn't said anything. When I smell Tide™, I look at it as someone not to go anywhere near, carnally. The smell is enough to cause gagging spasms, and indicates poor taste. Who would want to smell like that??? The whole neighborhood seems to like the stuff, as testified by the pervasive stench coming from the dryers around town.

Thanks for the laugh there davidmann, I do agree with you that it is a very strong smelling detergent and we have not used it here for many years (cost was the only reason) but in hindsight I am glad it was expensive and we discontinued its use here.

Great post and I am still laughing here.
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by Iwinder

It is claimed that Tide laundry detergent contains a cancer-causing chemical called dioxane. After reading the link and there are lots of sub links available to anyone who might be concerned I came to the conclusion in my opinion it is true. It seems to me now the argument is not that is causes cancer but how much is needed to actually cause cancer in people.

Dioxane is actually going to be present in essentially any shampoo, dish soap, detergent, cleaning agent, etc. that contains any amount of any nonionic surfactant. Surfactants are molecules that are comprised of a hydrophilic ("water-loving") portion and hydrophobic ("water-fearing") portion. It's how they're able to cut through oily deposits and allow it to be washed away -- the hydrophobic portion has affinity for the grease or oil or dirt or what have you, the hydrophilic portion is soluble enough in water that it can then be carried when rinsed with water. This is a bit of an oversimplification, but gives the general picture.

Nonionic surfactants most commonly utilize polyethylene glycol (also sometimes referred to as polyethylene oxide or polyoxyethylene at higher molecular weights) as the hydrophilic portion of the molecule. Polyethylene glycol (PEG) is produced by the polymerization of ethylene oxide. During the early stages of this polymerization, diethylene glycol is formed and, under the right conditions, it cyclizes via a dehydration reaction into 1,4-dioxane. It's possible to remove the material from surfactants that contain it as an impurity so, if it's something that you're concerned about, my suggestion would be to check the MSDS on every product in your mouth used to clean anything (including your body), look for a Prop 65 warning for 1,4-dioxane, and only buy products that don't have that Prop 65 warning. I can't remember off the top of my head what the minimum reportable quantity is, but it's in the low ppb levels.

reply to post by iterationzero


Excellent post my friend and thanks very much for your time and knowledge.
I hope everyone here reads this.
Do you have any idea of how much is too much? Maybe even just a personal opinion?
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by soulshn
My wife has been making her own detergent for a couple of years now. Works every bit as well as the name brands, sans any cancer causing dioxane, and for pennies on the dollar of what the other stuff costs.

i will edit with a link when she gets home.

Cheers!

Edit to Add:

Well, i called her and here you go:

Liquid laundry detergent for $0.01/load


Thanks to you and the missus from us here and I bet everyone reading this thread.

Great stuff and we are going to try the liquid formula as soon as possible.
Regards, Iwinder

Powdered laundry detergent for $0.05/load

We have tried both and have been equally satisfied. Give it a shot, it is fun to make and oh so very worth it. Compare both above to somewhere around $0.20/load for the name brand stuff.

edit on 4/28/12 by soulshn because: Meh, i really should proofread more.

reply to post by Iwinder

Excellent post my friend and thanks very much for your time and knowledge.

Thanks. I worked in R&D at chemical companies from 1998 until about six months ago and one of my pet peeves when I was just a lurker on these boards was the amount of simply wrong information being thrown around about chemistry. Making sure that people were getting the facts was one of the reasons I started posting.

Do you have any idea of how much is too much? Maybe even just a personal opinion?

As far as skin contact goes, that's a really difficult question to answer. California's Prop 65 legislation typically errs on the side of extreme caution and they're threshold is 10 ppm in personal care products. As far as ingestion goes, the EPA has stated that, based on their assessments, if an individual drinks water that has 3 ppb of 1,4-dioxane continuously over their entire lifetime, they would have no more than a 10E-6 (one in a million) increased chance of developing cancer as a direct result of ingesting that chemical. I think I've read that reportable levels in drinking water are typically on the order of 0.3 - 1.0 ppb, so you'd know well in advance of reaching that level.

reply to post by iterationzero

I thank you again sir/madame, If you don't mind me asking and if you don't mind a hypothetical question, why do you suppose they changed their shampoo formula?

Would that be the the California legislation coming into play with the dioxane levels? Or a more major concern?
Regards, Iwinder

One thing I will add to this thread and it may mean nothing at all or It may mean something.
My Late father was an a apprentice chemist at a major chemical company for about 5 years after WW2.
He did not have the education to advance in that field so they moved him to purchasing the chemicals and that is where he stayed right up till retirement.

The one thing he said a lot was "you do not want to know what is in those rail cars" and we had tons of them going by our home here.......well within 4 miles or so.

What I am trying to get across here is that he was very informed and he was very worried about what what being made and shipped.

Not trying to fear monger here just stating the fact that he respected and feared the chemicals he was hired to deal with.
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by soulshn
My wife has been making her own detergent for a couple of years now. Works every bit as well as the name brands, sans any cancer causing dioxane, and for pennies on the dollar of what the other stuff costs.

i will edit with a link when she gets home.

Cheers!

Edit to Add:

Well, i called her and here you go:

Liquid laundry detergent for $0.01/load

Powdered laundry detergent for $0.05/load

We have tried both and have been equally satisfied. Give it a shot, it is fun to make and oh so very worth it. Compare both above to somewhere around $0.20/load for the name brand stuff.

edit on 4/28/12 by soulshn because: Meh, i really should proofread more.

Thanks for the recipes, will see if I can get the ingredients and give it a go this week. I'll post the results once known. Always looking to save money and willing to prove that big business doesn't have all the market.

Namaste,
YogaGinns