Grow some balls.

You know, I am sick and tired of people on this site, trying to please and appease each other.

Some topics, which are obviously going to evoke different responses, and reactions from the vast number of people on here, generates quite a bit of interest, and yet, when it is controversial, many seems to change their arguments, or standpoint halfway through.

I fear we have all become so socially politically correct, that we do not choose a side anymore. Many seem to have become a "fence sitter", not choosing any side, and always trying to please both sides.
This is highly tiresome, because usually these people will write many things, without a general point to it.

There is nothing wrong with having a difference of opinions, as long as it is done tactfully, and not dissolve into the general bad mouthing and insults that usually happens.

Too many people try to please everyone, and that is so obvious that it is becoming highly irritating. If you have something to say, then say it, and stand by your words. Don't try and feel out the water first, you have your own convictions so please stand by it, but please don't change your story or your believes halfway through an argument.

Have some balls, and have a nice day too.

vvv

Here-here! I could not agree with you anymore than I already do. Thankfully, as most are probably aware of, I am definitely not one of those people which you wrote about. If there is an unpopular opinion, I likely hold it. Rather than try to mix my message to appease the other readers I say nothing on the subject or post my opinion in a polite way; as all people should do.

Meh, never mind. Carry on.

Long story short: Star n' flag

all i have to say is that if you cant see that both sides of an argument have merit and things are generally too complicated to completely agree or disagree with you are being willfully ignorant (not always true but in most cases it is)
there are two sides to a coin but a ball has none

haha im affraid im gonna have to disagree with you,not because your wrong,but just because today i feel bad

I think some of us get a bit sick of all the confrontation at times and try to be overly diplomatic and sensitive.

Whilst I always intend to be respectful I certainly have no desire to be a 'fence sitter' and hope I never come across that way.

If I ever do please let me know and I shall endeavour to revert back to my normal bolshy, opinionated self.

One thing's for certain, I've never been accused of lacking balls before.

reply to post by sirhumperdink


I understand your concerns. However, surely you have your own thoughts on a subject? That is all I ask, that people should just speak their own thoughts, no matter how silly or ridiculous, or wrong or right it might appear.

Why live the thoughts of another, when your own thoughts are strong enough?

vvv

I for one am not here to please anybody. That sir, is not my issue!

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


I think generally there is some topics, which can't be looked at with a bias, so some times people should sit on the fence. However in the case of ATS, I do know where you're coming from.

I've also noticed the trend of, people being hypocritical based on an ATS friend's beliefs. For example I saw some one in chat talking about a subject he was sceptical about, few days later his friend was talking about it.


Suddenly person 1 decides, because this is his friend, he will temporary pretend to believe/be passionate about this subject, and regard their own scepticism, just to be in favour, of him/her.

Seriously, no opinion, no standing point. And for that, Grow some balls.

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


oh i completely agree with that.... not sure there are many who wouldnt
just pointing out that being well rounded means you cant pick a side
you stand alone
nobody will have the exact same thoughts on a given subject and its always good to play devils advocate
if your arguments are valid they will hold up
if they arent its to your benefit to alter them and if youve never changed your mind by exploring the ideas of others youre either some kind of god or a little too comfortable where you are

and like they say.... you catch more bees with honey
when people get defensive it becomes extremely difficult to get them to explain why exactly they have the views they do

you NEED other peoples ideas to experience perspectives you wouldnt otherwise stumble upon on your own

I'd just like to add here that it's hard not to consider the fact I've changed my tone on a thread or approach dramatically a couple of times in the recent past and several times in the past couple weeks in particular. Of course, I could just be really tired too...

To add though, The effort to avoid confrontation and carefully choose the battles that are worth fighting is behind about 75% of my thinking when I soften my tone or change tack on a debate. the other 25% is actually when my opinion is changed to some degree and I really do come into many threads with an open mind. I see a number of folks say no one ever changes anyone's mind...in my case, heck, I've learned quite a bit. That is what makes the time here worthwhile, actually. One thread yesterday was dealing with Islam and my tone on the thread changed in response to a U2U discussion with a Muslim member. It was an interesting and lengthy chat that is still ongoing.... and actually has changed a couple perceptions which reflected there on the thread.

The other factor..and why I really wanted to make a comment on the thread here is this. I've seen more than one member recently mention having more than one account or referring to that casually as if it's expected and everyone has a few. Err... ATS and the other couple sites I really spend any degree of time on only have one account for me. I look at the sites as a community, and not an arena to meet adversaries for intellectual battle. Anyone around here who may have known me at Yahoo chat or many years ago at AOL (Same name since Y2K, everywhere I go) know I used to really enjoy and take pleasure in fighting, rather than debating...and I really lost the interest in that whole approach. It always winds up hurting or upsetting people to an extreme and never for anything really worth winning the fight for.


I also believe and will never really know for sure, that I came uncomfortably close to be post/banned one night. In the heat of the moment, I probably wouldn't have cared..either. Coming back the next morning to see if it had happened (obviously it didn't) gave me a real moment of pause to consider how much time and energy invested here would have been wasted and for a debate I honestly don't even recall the topic of anymore. Winning the battle would never have been worth that outcome and that has tempered how far up to that line I'll go and absolutely made me consider what matters of principle are worth it, regardless. There are absolutely a few...

Anyway.. That's my 2 1/2 cents. I'll even use old pennies with real copper. I'll check back later... I have a whole site to finish redesigning today so won't be on much.

I've seen more than one member recently mention having more than one account or referring to that casually as if it's expected and everyone has a few.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Don't even get me started on the sockpuppet accounts on here!!

*Makes not for next rant*

Fully agree with you though. Sometimes a good argument can change ones point of view, and that is admirable and promotes healthy discussion.

vvv

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


but your avatar says "that sir, is not my issue"


i think its ok to try to understand both sides, and sit not on a fence, but a fluffy observant couch invulnerable, yet in between the two sides of the argument, or conversation.

i love exercising my freedom to choose either/or/ or even None of the above!

i have always thought it was unfair when i was forced to choose A or B.

A or B isn't freedom!

i choose some other letter! or even a number! lalala!! i choose a fruit!!!!!

freedom to all! peace! *hugs EVERYONE*


edit: if someone is in disagreement with me, of course i will try to help them understand what i mean, and share some opinions and details, but i stand strong and i don't change my mind unless i change my mind, for a good reason that i myself concluded in my own comfort/reason/peace/ and own freedom.

i say one thing, they say another, agree to disagree, etc.

as long as all the information gets out there, and everyone is free to make their own conclusions and opinions on their own free terms.

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


Perhaps these people are unsure deep down , and do not actually have convictions...or it could be that more than 2 sides to any story exist.

Why would you equate courage with sticking to one-sidedness, it seems abit laughable...and actually would cause MORE arguments, not LESS.

Holding to your opinion is respectable, however it's not good to continue berrating the same argument if you've been proven wrong.

I've been proven wrong on a number of occasions, and I will then admit so, and probably start arguing for the side I was against in the after math.

Holding on to your ideals and beliefs is only really justified if you are right and nobody can come along and give you a reasonable explanation for why you aren't.

~Tenth

I'm not quite sure how I feel about your OP.

Do you have any pictures?

Although they rarely prove anything.

Holding on to your ideals and beliefs is only really justified if you are right and nobody can come along and give you a reasonable explanation for why you aren't.

~Tenth

I kinda have to agree with tenth on this one. If you believe you are right then by all means, Defend you position. But I would like to think I am finally old enough to admit when I'm wrong. I have been corrected on more than one occasion and deservedly so.

Be firm but keep a open mind.

I know myself very well. I self examine my behavior and my actions and why I have them, and whether or not they are correct. If they are not correct, I try to change myself and the way I either act or react. I am not perfect and am still young, although by the time I am older I hope to be a quality person with all my behaviors.

When I step into a thread sometimes it is only to learn and may or may not make a comment or two.

Other threads I may attempt to offer whatever advice I have to offer or in some way contribute to the good of the topic.

Other threads I step into either knowing or believing I know what position I will take, determining to argue that position.

While yet other threads are simply shocking and I may make a comment out of shock; and may or may not further contribute after the shock wears off.

The third kind of mindset, the one of knowing my position at times I have been wrong. If and/or when I am proved wrong I will move on because the other side had a stronger argument which it made me rethink my position. But other times the debate only circles into infinity and it is not worth my time so I leave the debate for the good of my peace.

Yet other times they was so much hatred directed at me I did not even bother to read the entire posting of the person I was debating. Only to find myself posting in a reactionary manner in response to the first couple of sentences and then only out of anger. When I am in a debate or discussion with anyone who is hateful and rude I completely shut down. I do not listen to anything said from that point forward. It wouldn't matter if in that thread they had proven the sky was falling, I would not have listened to any of their points.

The only time I am willing to listen to others is when they speak to me in a good manner. This is when I am willing to admit my faults and the only time I am willing to find the middle ground.

If I am like that, do you not suppose most people are? Most people wont listen to a word you say if you are not willing to speak to them in a calm and peaceful manner, therefore if you want to prove yourself the only way to go about it is to have good manners, and prove your point through facts. Not everyone will listen even when you do this, although some will, eventually maybe many will.

But never will anyone listen if you have the mentality that you have to beat your way of thinking into someone's head.

Therefore, there is never any reason to be rude unless of course you are wrong, then you would have to be terribly forceful because your view is wrong, and then you only scared people into agreeing with you, and never made them actually believe your view was correct.

Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

Some topics, which are obviously going to evoke different responses and reactions from the vast number of people on here, generate quite a bit of interest. Yet when it is controversial many seem to change their arguments or standpoint halfway through...........

vvv

edit on 28-4-2012 by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep because: typos

and they also seem to be the same people who are overly concerned about internet privacy. On one hand they want to be like everyone else while on the other they don't want anyone to know who they are. Talk about shoving your sac up where the sun don't shine.

Edit: I agree with what you said but, as a writer, I felt it hard to read what you wrote in the way that you wrote it.I wasn't taking you out of context, the teacher in me had to remove all those commas you used and correct grammatical mistakes.That's all.

That sounds like a good product for the dystopian stem cell marketplace. Miracle ball-gro*. The seeds come in two packages. Add water and our patented blend of hormones, shake vigorously, apply, wait 9 months, and spend the next 18 years with your very own crotch fruit. Shipping and handling extra, about half a million dollars.

*female not included.

Can't you just stuff a sock in it? The world is full of balls already, and look at what happens when they get loose!