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Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

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posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
But the problem is extremists from both sides DO try to impose their views onto others. Teaching gay history in schools, demanding kindergartners read books about gay families etc. I don't even need to regurgitate all the things that SOME Christians do. It goes both ways. Why do we ALWAYS let the extremists set the agenda and determine the dialog? Why can't we leave some things to our home life and just live and let live?

It seems these days that someone ALWAYS wants to be the winner and shut up the person with the differing view point. This is a road to hell for all of us. Our society will crumble if we allow this kind of intolerance from either camp.

There is not just one way or the other way. Why do you let the lunatic right/left paradigm determine the direction of our national conversation? We have a choice to live and let live here people. Anyone who pushes us beyond civility is the one we ought to all be questioning.


But don't you see, if everyone treated homosexuals with respect, dignity and full equality, there would be no need to have certain "gay tolerance" curricula in schools. The intolerance of gays came first - then the gays (or those fighting for gay rights) came after to fight the intolerance.



So you counter intolerance with more intolerance? That is a road to hell. Hyperbole just makes the dialog that much more contentious. Live and let live. Don't shove your views down anyone else's throats goes both ways. It is called the moderate position and it has been absolutely shoved aside for this ridiculous and dangerous left/right spew. I am so sick of the lunatic fringe giving the majority of us their either or stances on these kinds of issues. We need to go back to being a polite society who respects each others rights to live as we please.




posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by longjohnbritches

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

This is all very easy to decode.

The whole hollywood gang - loves - to attack the Christians.

Christians are - against - gay marriage and abortion.


Christians are also - in favor of - slavery and the stoning of women.

I KNOW this to be true, because it says so in the Bible. Can you deny that?


Make sure you get your facts straight here.
Let's have a source here.
Do you have a news link to Christians stoning anyone?
Have you been stoned OFTEN??


There are many many verses in the Bible referring to slavery and stoning women being acceptable practices, even required in some situations. There are Christians who say they follow the Bible - that's why they can justify their negative feelings about homosexuals. So, those same Christians must also follow the parts of the Bible that condone slavery and stoning, correct?

Obviously, I am being sarcastic here. There are Christians who cherry-pick the verses in the Bible that justify their hatred, bigotry, and homophobia. The rest of the Bible, they just conveniently ignore.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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He ambushed these students and administrators who thought this was going to be about anti-bullying (I mean, after all, the white house invited him to speak, so it should've been legit.)
From the article for those who haven't read it, because it was from Fox News. Who's open-minded?

Rick Tuttle, the journalism advisor for Sutter Union High School in California, was among several thousand people in the audience. He said they thought the speech was one thing – but it turned into something else. “I thought this would be about anti-bullying,” Tuttle told Fox news. “It turned into a pointed attack on Christian beliefs.”
Tuttle said that he “felt duped” by the event. “There were Christian schools who went to the conference. To have this happen was disappointing and shocking.” The NSPA said they should have done a better job preparing schools for what to expect. For his part, Tuttle said that he will definitely be more cautious about the speakers at future conventions.Tuttle related how Savage told students that for a number of years he was not allowed in schools. He told the students that because it’s gained national acceptance “he’s reveling in the fact that it’s basically a middle finger to all those teachers and administrators who wouldn’t let him have access to those students before.”



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by Climax
reply to post by Eurisko2012
 



Is christianity completly above reproach? No, christianity is a disgrace and theres no other way to spin it.

The true moral here is be careful of what you say because your own words can be used against you.


This 47 year old bully ambushed / attacked a room full of teenagers.

As they fled the scene of the ambush he hurled defamatory names at them.

I would like to see Dan Savage give that same speech to a room full of 47 year old

men and women.

Does he have the courage to do that?


Are you insinuating that a room full of grown adults like you would...what? Beat him up?

You need to really rethink the company you keep.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
But the problem is extremists from both sides DO try to impose their views onto others. Teaching gay history in schools, demanding kindergartners read books about gay families etc. I don't even need to regurgitate all the things that SOME Christians do. It goes both ways. Why do we ALWAYS let the extremists set the agenda and determine the dialog? Why can't we leave some things to our home life and just live and let live?

It seems these days that someone ALWAYS wants to be the winner and shut up the person with the differing view point. This is a road to hell for all of us. Our society will crumble if we allow this kind of intolerance from either camp.

There is not just one way or the other way. Why do you let the lunatic right/left paradigm determine the direction of our national conversation? We have a choice to live and let live here people. Anyone who pushes us beyond civility is the one we ought to all be questioning.


But don't you see, if everyone treated homosexuals with respect, dignity and full equality, there would be no need to have certain "gay tolerance" curricula in schools. The intolerance of gays came first - then the gays (or those fighting for gay rights) came after to fight the intolerance.



So you counter intolerance with more intolerance? That is a road to hell. Hyperbole just makes the dialog that much more contentious. Live and let live. Don't shove your views down anyone else's throats goes both ways. It is called the moderate position and it has been absolutely shoved aside for this ridiculous and dangerous left/right spew. I am so sick of the lunatic fringe giving the majority of us their either or stances on these kinds of issues. We need to go back to being a polite society who respects each others rights to live as we please.


You mean we need to go back to gays hiding in the closets, too afraid to be who they are. Sorry - that's not going to happen.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by RandomEsotericScreenname
 


"Only shows their intolerance" What kind of logic is that? No, that's called religious integrity. So, using your logic homosexuals should just put up with Christians bullying them because they should be tolerant...



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by subfab
 


Taking things out of date is what he did.

Those "Rules" where made in a specific time.

We no longer live in THAT time.

As below, so above.

The laws we make here are abide-able in heaven.

ALSO the "Rules" changed when Jesus hit the scene. He taught to love one an other, not to stone people for who they are or what they have done (he who without sin.... You know.)

Taking things out of date and context is something MOST people do with the bible.
He is an angry troll that gets fed of the ignorance of youth. Its very simple.

If he cared about others and truly loved his fellow man (and not just cared about what hes going to stick his #$&@ in and who is there to stop him) This video would have never have happened.

He only cares about his people (Homosexuals) being bullied. That is clear as day.

Honestly I would have handed this guy his butt in front of his friend. I would grab him, kiss him grab his butt and then tell the audience I was sorry that I shoved that in their face. That what I did was wrong because its not my right to make you be tolerant to me.

I would tell them that I have feelings just like they do (Just like most people do.) But I can't use these feelings for any porpoise but self pleasure, so I am not going to revolve my life around it because there is much more to life than sex and whom you have it with.

Yes I have been with a man or two.... but why? It was fun. My sexual urges told me to so I listened. Then I realized but the same thing happens with me to females...... So obviously I am a sexual person...... BUT thats not what I want in life.

I don't want my sexual urges controlling me and running my life. I don't want to segregate my self to one group because I like a certain kind of kink.

Thats a waste of my life.

I want to experience and understand the world. I don't want to treat it as if its my enemy.

This guy is just a prick. He is letting something run his life instead of freeing him self and just BEING he has labeled himself and others and making them follow.

Free your selves!
edit on 28-4-2012 by MrRichards because: A certain KIND of kink.... Not kid lol



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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Let’s leave aside my own feelings as a Christian for the moment and take the broadest possible view.

In so doing, what I object to most in this case is the hypocrisy.

History recognizes people like Gandhi and Martin Luther King as great men because they invoked a higher moral plane ("We are better than our opponents") and then were able to back up their words with action (an unswerving dedication to passive resistance and peaceful protest in the face of their enemies.) These men dwelt fully in the transcendent realm of their ideas - they did not merely lecture and talk down to people, they also embodied their ideals with their action. They wanted peace, so they acted peacefully. They wanted respect, so they treated others with respect (even when others did not extend the same respect to them). Christ, too, is in this category - He never raised His hands in violence, He went meekly to the cross, and He taught (and practiced fully) "love thy enemies".

Mr. Savage, on the other hand, seeks the external mantle of righteousness and tries to adopt a pose similar to that of those men above, but without actually going the extra mile to the most important part of such people - he does not meet hate with love, but with hate of his own. To meet hate with hate, intolerance with intolerance, is also an option, but one can't do this while simultaneously advocating "tolerance."

With his words, he invokes the mantle of "tolerance" and thus tries to set himself up in the same sphere as Christ, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King - but without actually practicing what he (and they) preach. Thus his discourse is fundamentally lazy and dishonest. He can talk the talk but he doesn't walk the walk. He wants admiration and recognition for being "tolerant" but without actually doing the work of being tolerant. That actually makes him sleazier and lower than somebody who straight-up decides to meet intolerance with intolerance.

It's a matter of integrity.

The other objectionable point is his use of guilt tactics and shaming strategies to manipulate his audience. Plus the always-present threat of “if you don’t toe the line you’ll get blackballed in the world of school/academia.” He objectifies his audience as "objects to be targeted by polemical tactics" rather than "subjects to be spoken to as equals and convinced through logic." This, too, is the mark of a manipulator and sleazeball.

It matters not one bit what the content of his theory is. His hypocrisy and scummy rhetorical tactics are what is most at issue. Doesn’t matter if he’s talking about homosexuals or bottle-cap-collectors, when looked at on this level.


edit on 4/28/2012 by Partygirl because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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We could all live together and get along just fine in a free and civil society where everyone's right to live as they please is respected and honored. This should be the most fundamental tenant of our society.

Marriage should not be the purview of the states. The states should grant everyone the same legal contract and leave marriage to the churches to do as they will. None of this should ever be addressed by public schools. Moral education should be left to individual families.

This is the moderate position so no wonder it is never brought up as an option.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by MsAphrodite

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
But the problem is extremists from both sides DO try to impose their views onto others. Teaching gay history in schools, demanding kindergartners read books about gay families etc. I don't even need to regurgitate all the things that SOME Christians do. It goes both ways. Why do we ALWAYS let the extremists set the agenda and determine the dialog? Why can't we leave some things to our home life and just live and let live?

It seems these days that someone ALWAYS wants to be the winner and shut up the person with the differing view point. This is a road to hell for all of us. Our society will crumble if we allow this kind of intolerance from either camp.

There is not just one way or the other way. Why do you let the lunatic right/left paradigm determine the direction of our national conversation? We have a choice to live and let live here people. Anyone who pushes us beyond civility is the one we ought to all be questioning.


But don't you see, if everyone treated homosexuals with respect, dignity and full equality, there would be no need to have certain "gay tolerance" curricula in schools. The intolerance of gays came first - then the gays (or those fighting for gay rights) came after to fight the intolerance.



So you counter intolerance with more intolerance? That is a road to hell. Hyperbole just makes the dialog that much more contentious. Live and let live. Don't shove your views down anyone else's throats goes both ways. It is called the moderate position and it has been absolutely shoved aside for this ridiculous and dangerous left/right spew. I am so sick of the lunatic fringe giving the majority of us their either or stances on these kinds of issues. We need to go back to being a polite society who respects each others rights to live as we please.


You mean we need to go back to gays hiding in the closets, too afraid to be who they are. Sorry - that's not going to happen.



Absolutely NOT, and nowhere in my post did I suggest that. Shame on you.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by lateralus123
reply to post by RandomEsotericScreenname
 


"Only shows their intolerance" What kind of logic is that? No, that's called religious integrity. So, using your logic homosexuals should just put up with Christians bullying them because they should be tolerant...


How about if no one bullied any one? How about if everyone just lived and let other people live according to their conscious? How about if it was ok to disagree, but not have to win by shoving your opinion down someone else's throat?



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by Clearskies

Originally posted by kaylaluv


Christians are also - in favor of - slavery and the stoning of women.

I KNOW this to be true, because it says so in the Bible. Can you deny that?


That is the Old Testament. We also don't sequester ourselves away during menstruation
or marry our dead husband's brother, anymore. Romans believed in slavery and pedophilia, should we bully Italians?


So you should also not want homosexuals to go to hell for loving someone!!
It shouldnt even take an outside force to tell you that there are all these wrong things about the bible, why is homosexuality still an issue?

Its time to put your money where your mouth is and make a bigger deal about opening the Gates of Heaven to homosexuals, or you're a bigot.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
We could all live together and get along just fine in a free and civil society where everyone's right to live as they please is respected and honored. This should be the most fundamental tenant of our society.

Marriage should not be the purview of the states. The states should grant everyone the same legal contract and leave marriage to the churches to do as they will. None of this should ever be addressed by public schools. Moral education should be left to individual families.

This is the moderate position so no wonder it is never brought up as an option.


The fundemental problem, is that extremists represent the vast majority of people who are moderates. Which in essence, is the vast majority of people.

That and the fact that people would rather have themselves told what they should think about the world and the people who live in it, than actually take responsibility and come up with their own convictions, opinions of things; without a bias slant to start with.

The gay marriage debate is in the same boat. The government should not have made "marriage" a religious institution that provided more rights to some than others. They need to create an equivalent " Civil Union" type agreement where same sex couples are afforded those rights.

The fact that they use morality as an excuse to deny somebody lawfull rights is beyond me. The fact that the gay commnity uses the world "marriage" as a means to not come to agreement with the other side is just as ludicrous.

But as stated above, extremists represent you, and they make tons of money doing it.

~Tenth



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by MrRichards
 


I was going to point out the hypocrisy of you using the "New Covenant" argument to justify "christians" not following the old laws, yet still justify "christians" using the old laws to demean and abuse gays, but I then read the rest of your comment, and realized just how brainwashed and indoctrinated some can be, and realized it would be a waste of time. Your post is a great example of how hypocritical the "christian" right can be.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by Partygirl
 


Actually, you're the one who's saying he's trying to be like Ghandi and Christ. Both people used guilt as a way to promote peace.

Feel bad for killing? Guilt trip!
Feel bad for hitting your spouse? Guilt trip!
Feel bad for not donating to the poor? Guilt Trip!

(Those things are all terrible btw, they were just used as examples!)

Looks like you need to get off your high-horse.
This man has probably seen enough religious nuts (not the average religious people, just the nuts) bash people who aren't white, women, men, children, people who are adopted, people who are differently abled, people of a different sexuality, people of science, people of other religions, and thought he'd promote that religious-nuts people aren't actually tolerant.

If this man, at every possible chance he got, bashed religious people, you would have a serious argument.

He did this so far, once.

Get over it.
edit on 28-4-2012 by voidla because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
We could all live together and get along just fine in a free and civil society where everyone's right to live as they please is respected and honored. This should be the most fundamental tenant of our society.

Marriage should not be the purview of the states. The states should grant everyone the same legal contract and leave marriage to the churches to do as they will. None of this should ever be addressed by public schools. Moral education should be left to individual families.

This is the moderate position so no wonder it is never brought up as an option.


While I agree with your point, I must point out a mistake in your logic, marriage is not a religious idea, it is purely civil, the idea of "Holy Matrimony" is the religious equivalent to marriage, a common mistake.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Make no mistake, if modern Christians in America thought they had the numbers, they'd pass a law mandating one had to be a Christian to hold political office, be a judge, to teach -- any civic position of authority. Anyone who opposed it they'd cry was demonstrating intolerance. Modern American Christians are in fact the greatest true threat to actual freedom and civil rights in the U.S. today and likely for the foreseeable future and this is the central reason for the American post-millenial decline into fascism, a police state and the third world. Christians cannot discern facts from opinions, Christians have no ability reason since their entire life is predicated on their twisted and shamelessly selective readings of the bible and view of reality. They reject science, rreject logic, reject diversity, reject compassion, reject tolerance. And they are very good at making noise and organizing.

This makes them the most dangerous and malignant force in the world today. I include several of my own family in this; I love them, but am wise enough to know they are so deep into the cult of Fundamentalism that they cannot reason and genually believe the opposite of reality, as do all their ilk. If pressured, they would gladly imprison those not like them all the while thinking they are actually doing the right thing. American Christians are exactly like the average good people of Germany in the late '30s -- they were so brainwashed it took a generation and global war snap them back in to reality. And that is what it will take here. Christians will start the Third World War, feeling all the while perfectly righteous.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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As a Christian, it is difficult to hear this attack against my faith from someone who has zero understanding of anything he cited - no less from someone that has his OWN moral code to enforce on society. He speaks of slavery, yet has no understanding that God makes it perfectly clearly that the entire world is already in slavery. "Tolerance" is the buzz word that forces people into submission. I applaud those young people for swimming upstream in a society fast being forced to accept any and all personal behaviour as 'normal and healthy' because of TOLERANCE. Tolerance isn't love, tolerance is a blinding tool to the destruction of civilisation. Gay advocates for years denied the warnings that it's acceptance wouldn't lead to other forms of sexual acts being recognised as 'normal' - and right on cue, psychologists have been writing journal articles suggesting that pedophilia should be reclassed from a mental illness to a sexual practice.

People can't see the slow destruction of our morals - the tendency of sin is downward to greater degradation and misery, it's a spiral and gains momentum as it descends. It's one of the most important lessons in this Bible, and that the speaker will never acknowledge it because he's so wrapped up in justifying a sexual practice as a "lifestyle" that he berates children for not choosing IT over the Bible. That is the crux of his form of bullying - coercion based on the human inclination to not be seen as 'different'. Evil loves company as they say. He has no concept of the meaning of Biblical slavery, for it he did, he'd not be up at that podium.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite

How about if no one bullied any one? How about if everyone just lived and let other people live according to their conscious? How about if it was ok to disagree, but not have to win by shoving your opinion down someone else's throat?

that would be great, except that there are people who live their lives under the impression that due to believing a set of beliefs and being told they come from god, that they get to shove their opinions down everyone's collective throats.
you can't have disagreement with some people, they refuse to accept disagreement or being wrong, due to being told their views come from some objective moral agent.
until we either learn to accept that other people do not accept the authority our beliefs in gods give us, or reject all gods, thus removing the belief that an all powerful being agrees with us, we will never live and let live.

sure there are other things that will need to be fixed too to stop bullying, but there is nothing more powerful to make people do horrible things than the belief that god agrees with what you do.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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I was very happy to see a display of "freedom of speech" from both Mr. Savage and the students that walked out. Mr Savage had every right to speak about the Christian influence in our culture that can promote bullying and he had every right to criticize the bible. He could have stood on that stage and set fire to the book and he would have been within his rights to do so (as long as the fire was contained of course).

The students left upon hearing a part of his presentation they found offensive. This action showed the student's own freedom of speech was upheld as they were not forced to stay and attend the remainder of the presentation. Had Mr. Savage not been allowed to speak of the contribution Christianity makes in our "bully culture" or had the students been forced to stay then both of their "rights" would have been violated.

This country is built upon the rule of law and the preservation of unalienable human rights. There is no right or law which guarantees you a freedom from being offended. If something is offensive don't view/listen to it; but certainly do not try to tell that person that their freedom of speech must be infringed because you are offended...that is a true definition of BS.


edit on 28-4-2012 by Dilligaf28 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-4-2012 by Dilligaf28 because: (no reason given)



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